I have a solution to the ILLEGAL immigration problem:

Protect the borders. Problem. Solved.

Let's remember one important thing in this discussion....80 percent of the world is a festering sewer filled with peoples and cultures of varying degrees of primitiveness. It is the DUTY of civilized nations to prevent their country/society from succumbing to these lower rung cultures by limiting immigration of said cultures.

Sorry, as blunt and unpopular as ths statement may be to some, it is fact.

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Theoretically, cops not only could arrest a US citizen for not having a license/ID on them, but would be required to if the situation arose. Thankfully not many people in Arizona are darker skinned or of an Hispanic ethnicity...

It's a ham-fisted poorly thought out law that will be equally ham-fisted in its implementation. This is not only stirring up a shitload of controversy, but it's doing an incredible amount of damage to Arizona's tourism industry, on which it heavily relies.

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That's a great argument for Canada to close its borders to the US, considering our intentional homicide rate is nearly 3 times theirs.

Or... am I misunderstanding your use of the words "primitive" and "civilized"? Perhaps "privileged" is what you meant?

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Like every fanbase, every culture has its problem children...ours is no exception. But, we do not stone women for sex; keep them illiterate with the intent of submission/dependence on men; remove their clitorises; wipe our asses with our hands; etc.

Priveledged? Persia was the jewel of the world centuries ago...math and science that led the world. But, their primitive, tribal inclinations reduced them to the shit-hole they are today. Yes, primitive and civilized work well for me.

And, please...don't hit me with the crusades and the negative consequences it had on that part of the world....the crusades were in respons to Muslim aggresiion..particulalry their aggression against Spanish territories.

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Wipe their asses with their hands... well that's really a matter of toilet paper supply. So, we shall judge civilization based on the volume of available toilet paper! I'm sure a number of filthy handed, ass wiping cultures would love to be able to clear cut forests so that they could vault up the ranks of civilized societies with their abundance of Charmin Ultra.

Seriously, how DARE they. Just thinking of it gives me the willies. Shit all over their hands. I need to go wash.

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You conveniently miss the point. You feel we, and presumably other western nations/societies, are "priviledged"?

Well, I think Africa...and yes, I know Africa is a continent and not a nation....is/was rather "priviledged". The place had/has damn near every resource available to build a sustainable economy and develop its infrastructure...and yes, toilet paper....so that its people might prosper and live in relative safety.

Priveledge has as much to do with what you are given, and what you are willing to give. The Judeo/Christian principles upon which our nation was founded...and no, I am not a Goddy....has allowed this nation to harness its resources for the betterment of its citizens, and up until the last half century, a government that worked towards that end as well. And now, you have Africa. Given much, but having given little back, it is governed by criminals and murderers and its bounty plundered for but a select few, while the masses exist in squalor and, in many cases, die young after tortured lives.

Yeah....I stand by my statement that much of this world is rather primitive. Somewhat mirrors the whole rights/responsibilities arguement. Everyone claims their rights, but wish to bear no responsibility. Well, no culture/nation/continent will ever prosper when drowning in tribal strife. At some point, people need to quit acting like street gangs and move forward for a unified cause, such as a civilized nation.

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I'm such a softhearted weenie.

Me, I'd rather trade out New Yorkers 1 to 1 for people living south of Texas. And then Californians. And, frankly, most of my fellow Iowans.

I just don't understand why people worry about immigration. Most immigrants work at least as hard as natives. And after all, what did *I* do to become entitled to occupation of this piece of land? The notion that membership in a society should be determined by where you happened to be physically born...I just don't get it.

Like I said. I'm a weenie.

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A suburb of D.C. ran into a huge problem with illegal immigrants.

Prince William county, Va.

It is two jurisdictions south of D.C. itself.

It is far enough south that the property values were such that a bunch of illegals (plus one legal) could pool their money together and either buy or rent a single family home. The prices north were just too prohibitive, so this became the "landing spot" for all the illegals, and there was (and is) a shitload of them.

Construction jobs in the region. Booming economy. Not necessarily "cheap" labor, but rather, "cheaper and available" labor.

They would cram like 20 people in a single house. Cars everywhere, weekend / drinking troubles, etc. Property values and quality of life in the neighborhoods would plummet. It became a county-wide problem. The board of supervisors decided to go with "active/aggressive enforcement" of things like occupancy/car sticker/tail-light bulb etc. enforcement, along with some shit in the schools, I forget what, exactly.

My brother informs me that the "Mexicans have been clearing out."

The government made it an unfriendly place to be, and it worked.

I seen the effect of having all those illegals there, and I didn't like what I saw. I would not have wanted to live in one of those neighborhoods.

My understanding is that the Arizona laws are NOT going to be enforced as some here have depicted, but rather as a part of other enforcement actions unrelated to one's alien status. It sounds like --just about anything else in this country anymore--kinda depends on where you get your news and what you want to hear...

ALL I KNOW is that when you have seen some of the problems for YOURSELF, you come away a lot more sympathetic to a state like Arizona trying to do something about it.

Hopefully the illegals will (and I expect this to happen) will find Arizona unfriendly to them and move to California. This will be fair to all parties concerned, as the Californians can put (More of) their money where their political ideology lies, so to speak.

I would personally like to figure out a way to make all the existing illegal population legal, get 'em to pay taxes, etc. --AND STOP the friggin' flow of any more illegals, coupled with a sensible number of legal immigrations in order to sustain us as a society. Give a RETROACTIVE cut-off date so they don't ALL come pouring in due to an amnesty program. Our country DOES need their population in order to sustain and grow the economy, or some of you white folk citizens are gonna have to start making a hell of a lot more babies.

I dunno.

1. Which is worse, the 20 people in one house with bad toilet habits in Prince William County, or the 535 people who occupy the house on the other side of the Potomac?
2. Funny thing is, if you read the historical documents from, say, 1880 (or 1910 or whatever), you see the same kinds of "public health" arguments made against the Irish and the South Europeans and assorted other nationalities/ethnicities/income groups. And in fact said public health issues *did* exist back then. Ones that put far more at risk than property values. Yet a generation or less later, those same people and their children were ensuring the continued growth and success of the nation.

No one wants pigs in their back yard. I understand. I don't want shacks and outhouses next to me either.

But the economic track record of letting the pigs in is damn good.

And, and this is just my opinion, a helluva lot better than certain n-th generation "public servants who always wear tailored suits and shit in top-of-the-line Kohler toilets.

Several years ago I spent several weeks deep in South Texas, about 15 miles from Brownsville and the border. One of the most depressing places I've ever seen, squalor and poverty and lack-of-modern-niceties-wise. To get where I stayed, I had to take several hours of bus rides from Corpus Christi south on the way in and several hours more on buses on the way out to San Antonio. (In fact, I was stranded in the middle of nowhere for almost half a day coming back because the bus I was waiting for had been stopped shortly after crossing the border for suspected illegals.)

So anyway, I eventually got to San Antonio, and checked into this really posh hotel right across the street from the Alamo. After enjoying the hot tub in my room, I headed down to the hotel bar intending to have a few before dinner. And I discovered the hotel was full of dolled up Texas surbanites whose daughters were participating in a some state cheerleader competition.

The people in the bar smelled a lot better than the people in the mini-mart outside of Brownsville where I had been stranded. I expect most of them could show several generations of American/Texas pedigree whereas amany of the taquito eaters in Brownsville-land were illegals who couldn't speak a word of English. And I know who had the more valuable cars and real estate. Which wore the more interesting skirts.

And I also know which ones offered more for the American economy. And which ones we'd be better off without.

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