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Offline Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:56:34 AM(UTC)
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What do you want more? Your freedom or your safety? You can't have both.

I took Keiana to a theater yesterday to see Despicable Me 2 and there's now a sign saying you can't bring backpacks in for the "Guests safety". This bothers me. Not because I can't bring a backpack in, because I have never done so, nor do I see a reason to. It bothers me because it feels like the bad guys are winning.

It's clear we can't have both freedom and safety and quite honestly, I would rather my freedom than this illusion of safety. Bad people will do bad things. They will find a way. Safety is nothing more than a damn illusion.

Give me my freedom and take your safety measures and shove them up your ass!

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 7:26:01 AM(UTC)
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Oh yeah, and what will you say the day some asshole - terrorist related or otherwise - shoots up or blows up the theater with your kid in it?

The bad guys are only winning if enough people are propagandized to let their guard down.

BTW, I don't think theaters EVER let people bring backpacks in because they're afraid people will bring food instead of buying their high priced crap.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 7:55:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Oh yeah, and what will you say the day some asshole - terrorist related or otherwise - shoots up or blows up the theater with your kid in it?

The bad guys are only winning if enough people are propagandized to let their guard down.

BTW, I don't think theaters EVER let people bring backpacks in because they're afraid people will bring food instead of buying their high priced crap.



The shooting in Aurora theater was not far from where we lived one year earlier. And Batman is something I am a huge fan of. So, to answer your question, if I were to lose my child in a theater shooting or bombing, what would I say? I would say it was a very unfair and unjustified attack. I sure as hell wouldn't pound my chest saying WHY ARE THESE PUBLIC VENUES NOT MORE SAFE!!

I do my best to protect my girls as that is part of my responsibility as a father. If I have to take a bullet for them, so be it. If I have to lay on a bomb to protect them, so be it. But don't dare tell me that this illusion of safety is worth losing ANY freedoms.


Should I not let my daughters ride their bikes because a car might hit them?
Should I not let them go to school because they might get shot?
Should I not take my girls to the mall because someone might have a gun and shoot them?
Should I not let them go to school because they might get touched inappropriately?
Should I not take them to the amusement park because a ride could crash?


Wait, I know what you think we should do. We should put everyone in a god damn bubble. Forget freedom, who needs it. Just get your very own texaspackerback bubble.



BTFW, I know the rules of a theater and backpacks, that wasn't the point I was getting at here.

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 8:27:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
The shooting in Aurora theater was not far from where we lived one year earlier. And Batman is something I am a huge fan of. So, to answer your question, if I were to lose my child in a theater shooting or bombing, what would I say? I would say it was a very unfair and unjustified attack. I sure as hell wouldn't pound my chest saying WHY ARE THESE PUBLIC VENUES NOT MORE SAFE!!

I do my best to protect my girls as that is part of my responsibility as a father. If I have to take a bullet for them, so be it. If I have to lay on a bomb to protect them, so be it. But don't dare tell me that this illusion of safety is worth losing ANY freedoms.


Should I not let my daughters ride their bikes because a car might hit them?
Should I not let them go to school because they might get shot?
Should I not take my girls to the mall because someone might have a gun and shoot them?
Should I not let them go to school because they might get touched inappropriately?
Should I not take them to the amusement park because a ride could crash?


Wait, I know what you think we should do. We should put everyone in a god damn bubble. Forget freedom, who needs it. Just get your very own texaspackerback bubble.



BTFW, I know the rules of a theater and backpacks, that wasn't the point I was getting at here.


Yes, I know you know hahahaha - it was the sign that made you mad.

It's commendable that you would give your life for your kids. we all would - BUT we shouldn't have to be placed in the situation to need to do so.

As for your collection of "should I not"s, I'm assuming you DO allow of those things, right? With a small degree of parental care and caution anyway. So WHERE is the bubble? Where is the lack of freedom? The fact is, you ARE reasonably safe in allowing those things BECAUSE of the exact subtle mostly but maybe not all behind the scenes security measures you now need some cheese to accompany your reaction to.

IMNHO (the N standing for NEVER), that tiny bit of inconvenience in the name of security is worth it, and does not even constitute a loss of freedom to a degree worth complaining about.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 8:57:13 AM(UTC)
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I don't think you implied this, but to be clear, by no means am I saying since safety is but a mere illusion we should absolve all attempts at reaching it. I am saying the more we whine to the Government about THEM needing to provide safer public venues for US, the more FREEDOM we relinquish. Everything has a trade off.

Some inconvenience for the sake of safety is worth it. Coincidentally, banning backpacks (etc) from theaters, I have no issue with whatsoever.

TSA at airports I have an issue with, but not for me. They can fondle me up/down and repeat and scan me nude for all I care. It's my girls that it becomes a problem. Maybe that's hypocritical, I dunno. I just don't agree with fondling kids for this illusion of safety. This has NOT happened to my girls. In fact, the airports at Denver, Milwaukee, Green Bay and Chicago have been very respectful. They had women do a soft pat on the under arm and that was it. Maybe me starring at them ready with a look on my face that clearly said "touch her wrong and you will get hurt"? I doubt that mattered to them much, but even my girls noticed it lol.

We could talk about Unions too here. Employee's whined and whined and rightfully so ... but now look. Unions give employees a false sense of laziness because hey the union will bail me out!





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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:12:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I don't think you implied this, but to be clear, by no means am I saying since safety is but a mere illusion we should absolve all attempts at reaching it. I am saying the more we whine to the Government about THEM needing to provide safer public venues for US, the more FREEDOM we relinquish. Everything has a trade off.

Some inconvenience for the sake of safety is worth it. Coincidentally, banning backpacks (etc) from theaters, I have no issue with whatsoever.

TSA at airports I have an issue with, but not for me. They can fondle me up/down and repeat and scan me nude for all I care. It's my girls that it becomes a problem. Maybe that's hypocritical, I dunno. I just don't agree with fondling kids for this illusion of safety. This has NOT happened to my girls. In fact, the airports at Denver, Milwaukee, Green Bay and Chicago have been very respectful. They had women do a soft pat on the under arm and that was it. Maybe me starring at them ready with a look on my face that clearly said "touch her wrong and you will get hurt"? I doubt that mattered to them much, but even my girls noticed it lol.

We could talk about Unions too here. Employee's whined and whined and rightfully so ... but now look. Unions give employees a false sense of laziness because hey the union will bail me out!



hahahaha Glad you got the whine and cheese reference - I was a little bit worried.

In your example, it boils down to PEOPLE - as it usually does. Sure, I suppose you have a few bad TSA people who get their jollies (no grape kool aid pun intended) from the stuff you mention, but they are rare - I would venture to say rarer than the percentage of those perverts in society in general. And here too it's all about benefit v. negative aspect.

I don't know if the TSA even has a union, but even a union isn't gonna protect a pervert - they might make sure an accusation is true before allowing him to get fired, but that's fair, I guess. It still comes back to the same as above - basically good normal people - the TSAers - doing a nasty but unfortunately necessary job in the least intrusive way possible - THAT in comparison to dying in a sabotaged plane, airport explosion, or heaven forbid, city hit by an NBC attack.

I suppose there are two points of view as to which is worse, factoring in the probabilities in BOTH cases, but IMNHO, one of those points of view CLEARLY beats the other.
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Offline OlHoss1884  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:00:55 AM(UTC)
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F*CK safety. I'm pissed at those weenies in the NRA...they whine about gun registries but won't lift a finger to make it legal for me to own a nuclear weapon. Give me that freedom and I'll worry about my own safety. So terrorists have killed what...4000 people in the last 20 years here in America? So what I could top that in 5 minutes with a nuke and take out a lot more BAD people than they did.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:49:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: good Lord, proof read!

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 10:32:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
F*CK safety. I'm pissed at those weenies in the NRA whine about gun registries but won't lift a finger to make it legal for me to own a nuclear weapon. Give me that freedom and I'll worry about my own safety. So terrorists have killed what...4000 people in the last 20 years here in America? So what I could top that in 5 minutes for a nuke and take out a lot more BAD people than they did.


No shit! I've been petitioning for one for years now. I keep getting denied. It's complete bullshit!

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Offline Formo  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:05:35 AM(UTC)
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Freedom. 100% of the time.
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Offline Formo  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:22:35 AM(UTC)
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Offline DakotaT  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:50:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
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You're a dumbass! BTW, I'll be in Maple Grove Saturday night and part of Sunday. You can take me out for breakfast. PM me your info.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 1:43:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
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I won't be in Maple Grove, but you're still a dumbass.

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Offline Wade  
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2013 5:50:22 PM(UTC)
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If you're not free, what's the point of being safe?

I'd rather be dead than a serf.




(Besides, another man can only take *this* life away from me. He can't take away the one that matters. Big Grin )
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Offline DakotaT  
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2013 6:09:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
If you're not free, what's the point of being safe?

I'd rather be dead than a serf.




(Besides, another man can only take *this* life away from me. He can't take away the one that matters. Big Grin )


You already are a serf.

I agree with the other life comment though. I think most people forget about that one.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2013 6:18:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
If you're not free, what's the point of being safe?

I'd rather be dead than a serf.




(Besides, another man can only take *this* life away from me. He can't take away the one that matters. Big Grin )


If you're DEAD, what's the point of being safe? I'm surprised at you, Wade, saying you'd rather be dead than anything. Either it's hyperbole or else it's just sad.

Anyway, as I think somebody in here said, BOTH security and freedom are matters of degree - you can't be 100% of either. That much is indisputable. It's all a matter of degree, and where to draw the line - how much it's possible to have of each/which is more important - that's where the argument comes in.

Most of the freedom people talk about giving up, however, is theoretical/not exercised anyway or so minor as to be irrelevant in comparison to the consequences of sacrificing security and safety.

This is just common sense normalcy, people - NOT even a close call.

And TRUE about your last line. However, if the terrorist enemy had its way, future generations might not even have THAT - EITHER by letting them win and blot out our Judeo-Christian culture - and with it knowledge of that "next life" and the means to achieve it OR just by killing enough of us that most of the future generation wouldn't even exist. Yeah, that's pretty extreme and alarmist, but then so is getting nuked or hit by a massive enough chem- or bio- attack.
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