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Offline Pack93z  
#16 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 9:57:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Until you're an owner like Gunny and I; your opinion on these matter really doensn't mean much! Big Grin


I have been an owner for a longer tenure.. so Flapper
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#17 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 10:10:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Depends on how the Signing Bonus and Roster Bonuses are handled.. look at Woodson's deal.. it had a ton of bonus money in it.. but past the first year or two.. most was roster bonuses which didn't hurt the Packers as the could exit out of it without much hit.

There is no other way to slice this though.. the QB position is becoming the new noose in which teams, players and the collective NFL will hang themselves from in terms of contract and cap balances.

And they all are assisting in getting themselves into it.. in our situation, I just hope Rodgers keeps his "big picture" mindset in a team first approach... well as much as this kind of money will allow.

I remember Brett setting the market for contract size... and the Packers were still allowed to remain competitive year in and out. I hope and remain confident in the Rodgers deal will do the same.

And a sizable bump to the cap in say 2015 may help as well. Big Grin


I was refering to this.

Quote:
I'm betting AR's cap hit will not exceed 10-12 mil for the 1st 4 years, then watch his yearly salary escalate.


That is not how to manage the cap. It has been seen to fail so often.

I would expect, the 10+ Rodgers is due this year, to be combined with 10-15 million of our available space under the cap, giving him a guaranteed salary of 20-25 million without having to push any of that money out. I would expect them to do something similar year 2, the 11million he is expected to get now, and add a 10 million dollar Roster bonus, and guarantee both. Which would have him in 45 guaranteed, without, having any of it sitting on the future cap. If they need more guaranteed money, they then could also us a SB. They could give him 60 million guaranteed, and only 3-4 million yearly cap hit.

I wouldnt' expect a big bump in cap 2015 either. The bump gets eaten up with the money going to the players medical.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline Pack93z  
#18 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 10:25:48 AM(UTC)
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We shall see how they structure it.. but as it stands right now.. we have ~ 18 million of cap space for this season.. if we couple the current 9.75 Million with another 15.. that leaves us just under the rookie pool. Hard to redo the contracts of Raji and Matthews that will expire before Rodgers that way.

I think they are going to commit a ton of real money in the signing bonus and they will take that bonus and structure it as effectively as possible for the first 4 to 5 years of the deal... I think this is why it is taking a good chunk of time.. working with Rodgers (via agent) and the Packers trying to structure it for the best of the team.

I have faith that this deal will be structure as well as a deal of this size can be for the Packers.. I have that much faith in Rodgers words and intelligence so that the team around him can be as successful as can be. Almost to the point that if the NFLPA would allow it... it might take an undermarket deal. A player with his earning potential off the field can supplement his on field income greatly.. especially if he can nail down another Championship or two.

I have read some of your other comments about this somewhat crippling the team.. I am (maybe foolishly) holding out hope that there is a middle ground that shows him proper respect in terms of reported size of deal and is more than fair in terms of actually earning potential. His past words and track record of upholding his word as a basis for it.

We shall see.. I just think this contract, which has been developing probably for 12 to 24 months to be very creative to accomplish the above.

Yes this deal could become the albatross around the Packers neck.. I wager that the parties involved will avoid that as much as possible with a deal this insanely large.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#19 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 10:39:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
I think they are going to commit a ton of real money in the signing bonus and they will take that bonus and structure it as effectively as possible for the first 4 to 5 years of the deal...


If they dump the money in a Signing bonus, there is no option on how to structure it, which is why I see them using current cap space and roster bonuses instead. If they put 40 million in a signing bonus over 6 years, that is 6.6million hit per year each of the years. And that can't be restructured later on.

That is how they worked his last contract.
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Offline steveishere  
#20 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 10:49:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I've heard that it's going to be a 6 year deal averaging $25 million per. I wouldn't even sign Barry Sanders for that money.


What I saw was a 4 year extension averaging 25m/year. When added to the 2 years left on the current deal that comes out around 20-21/ year
Offline Pack93z  
#21 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 10:55:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
If they dump the money in a Signing bonus, there is no option on how to structure it, which is why I see them using current cap space and roster bonuses instead. If they put 40 million in a signing bonus over 6 years, that is 6.6million hit per year each of the years. And that can't be restructured later on.

That is how they worked his last contract.


I worded that poorly... very poorly.. what I meant is that upon signing the deal there will be a large real cash bonus attached to it (might be delayed for maybe even a year)... but it may not be accounted for as a "Signing bonus". A roster bonus like they paid out in 2009 (over 7 million) but a very small actual salary for that year.

The cap number was elevated somewhat that year but allowed for the remainder of the deal to be structured with variable base salaries and yearly roster bonuses that provided a large chunk of cash on a certain date.

And yes.. that is how I think they will structure the front of this contract to put his overall number around the mid teens this season (his current 9.75 +), give him a large chunk of real dollars now and allow the Packers long term flexibility over the life of his deal.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#22 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 11:30:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I've heard that it's going to be a 6 year deal averaging $25 million per. I wouldn't even sign Barry Sanders for that money.


Aaron Rodgers is way better and way more valuable than Barry Sanders even in his prime. In addition, QBs have a lot longer span of excellence than RBs - most of the time. As with the example of a contract I wrote earlier, a longer contract is better - 10 years or more, both for the peace of mind of keeping him for his whole career AND because a longer contract is more cap friendly.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 11:40:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers is way better and way more valuable than Barry Sanders even in his prime. In addition, QBs have a lot longer span of excellence than RBs - most of the time. As with the example of a contract I wrote earlier, a longer contract is better - 10 years or more, both for the peace of mind of keeping him for his whole career AND because a longer contract is more cap friendly.


Tread lightly on the Barry Sanders stuff there friend, tread ... lightly. :)
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Offline Pack93z  
#24 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 11:42:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers is way better and way more valuable than Barry Sanders even in his prime. Applause .


I don't have any disagreement with any of the comments.. however Zero "Sanders" 2 cool might have a thing or two to say about this... it is always enjoyable to watch Zero embrace his Barry Sanders fanhood in a fever.

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I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 12:12:37 PM(UTC)
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I'd give him a HUGE incentive based around number of first downs. LOL
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline dhazer  
#26 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 12:57:43 PM(UTC)
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Someone please tell me why he is the greatest qb in the league?
Does he lead the league in yards ? NO
Does he lead the league in TDs? NO
Does he lead the league in Passer rating (stupidest stat of all when you look at number 3 and 4 are both rookies so I guess they are the 3rd and 4th best qb in the league) Yes
Did he throw the fewest int's ? Nope RG3 had fewer


His won loss record including playoffs is 56-29 and at the same time you take the so called useless qb in Baltimore and his record for the same time is 60-30 and won a game every year in the playoffs except once. Unlike Rodgers that hasn't one a playoff game but one year.


Yes he is a good qb but is he the far and away best? Not in my mind, For one year I would take Brady and Manning over him and for the long haul I would take Andrew Luck


Those are my thoughts, should he paid in the top tier yes, but claiming him the best by far is looking thru to many green and gold glasses because their is no proof behind it.
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#27 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 1:07:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
Someone please tell me why he is the greatest qb in the league?
Does he lead the league in yards ? NO
Does he lead the league in TDs? NO
Does he lead the league in Passer rating (stupidest stat of all when you look at number 3 and 4 are both rookies so I guess they are the 3rd and 4th best qb in the league) Yes
Did he throw the fewest int's ? Nope RG3 had fewer


His won loss record including playoffs is 56-29 and at the same time you take the so called useless qb in Baltimore and his record for the same time is 60-30 and won a game every year in the playoffs except once. Unlike Rodgers that hasn't one a playoff game but one year.


Yes he is a good qb but is he the far and away best? Not in my mind, For one year I would take Brady and Manning over him and for the long haul I would take Andrew Luck


Those are my thoughts, should he paid in the top tier yes, but claiming him the best by far is looking thru to many green and gold glasses because their is no proof behind it.


Aaron Rodgers does more with less quality around him than Brady or Manning, and probably even Griffin. We'll see about Luck in a few years. Where did ARod rank in those categories last year and the year before? or over the last 3-4 years?

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#28 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 1:16:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Tread lightly on the Barry Sanders stuff there friend, tread ... lightly. :)



Well, excu-u-u-u-use me hahaha. Sanders jitterbugged around better than any runner in my long history of being a football fan. I would consider him to be better than Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, and Adrian Peterson, and right up there with Jim Brown and Gayle Sayers. However, RBs don't usually dominate like QBs. Just look at how the Lions were even with Sanders's greatness - or the Vikings with Peterson or the Bears with Sayers and Payton.

Sorry, but I still consider Rodgers far more valuable and better overall in terms of helping his team win.

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Offline dhazer  
#29 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 1:35:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers does more with less quality around him than Brady or Manning, and probably even Griffin. We'll see about Luck in a few years. Where did ARod rank in those categories last year and the year before? or over the last 3-4 years?



With less quality? You are not serious are you? Name the 2nd and 3rd wr for the Pats or the 2nd and 3rd for Indy when Peyton was there?The Packers were suppose to have the best WR corp in the nfl.

Ok here you go
2011
lead league in yards - No
lead league in tds - no
fewest ints - no
passer rating - yes


2010

yards - no
tds - no
ints - no
passer rating - no

2009

yards - no
tds - no
fewest ints - yes tied with Favre
passer rating - no



what more do you want?

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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#30 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 2:29:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Aaron Rodgers does more with less quality around him than Brady or Manning, and probably even Griffin. We'll see about Luck in a few years. Where did ARod rank in those categories last year and the year before? or over the last 3-4 years?



That exact same comment has been said about Brady by his fans, Manning by his fans. And was said about Favre in his day also, and it is BS for them and BS for Rodgers. We talk about how great or WR group has been, that is not because they are bad players. They all just have teams with different dynamics, they each have had better and worse talent than the others.

The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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