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Offline Wade  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 12:56:03 PM(UTC)
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My feeling is that God gave us free will. That means we ought to be free to choose whatever hell we want.

I also believe that God cares far less about what we do with our dangly bits (or don't do with them) than we do.

I think the pursuit of gay sex and gay relationships can be a form of idolatry (and hence sinful), but the same is true of hetero sex and hetero relationships. Much of what people label "love"is I expect sinful in God's eyes. But not because of the mechanics used, but because of the state of mind reflected.

I also think there's no way I can or should be judging peoples' state of mind just because they happen to profess their homosexuality, any more than I should be judging peoples' state of mind because they admit to liking redheads or women with small breasts.

And as an anarchist, I see no reason why the state needs to be involved at all in deciding who gets married and who doesn't.

I understand why we might need to have fishing or hunting licenses (namely to prevent the tragedy of the commons). I fail to understand why we need to have marriage licenses if the people involved are "adult" and consenting.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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zombieslayer on 9/28/2011(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 12:56:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
It's a free country. Whether or not you're born gay or if it's a choice, it shouldn't matter.


Gay folks die for our "freedom", yet they are not afforded the opportunity to marry? I don't understand that part either, similarly to how black folks couldn't vote or exercise the freedoms the white folks could, yet they were expected to go to war an die for freedoms they could not have?


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Packerchick on 9/28/2011(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:11:25 PM(UTC)
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To me.. the concept of not allowing them to join in the legal definition of marriage is absurd.

The church and afterlife can have there say independently from the legalities of this country..

The hypocrisy of any government that will label "Under God" from the pledge of Allegiance as nothing more than "ceremonial and patriotic nature", cannot justifiably cite any religious connotations to gay marriage. You can't have it both ways.

We have wasted probably billions of dollars in this country on this topic, that has really no reason to be an issue for the government to rule upon.

It is not our fight as a union to decide.. two adults should be able to form a marriage freely if both consent.. regardless of sex, race or religion.

But pressure from religious voters sways the self serving politician in seeking re-election.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:13:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post


And no, Zero & I get it. It's a free country. Whether or not you're born gay or if it's a choice, it shouldn't matter.



No, Zero and Zombie incredibly boneheaded, but because you are also bullheaded - I give up trying to educate you. If you think you live in a free country than that is all the proof I need to call you a Dumbass.

But remember - you're still my boy. We'll call you Fez.
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Offline DakotaT  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:16:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post


But pressure from self righteous religious voters sways the self serving politician in seeking re-election.



I thought you needed a few more adjectives.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:22:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
No, Zero and Zombie incredibly boneheaded, but because you are also bullheaded - I give up trying to educate you. If you think you live in a free country than that is all the proof I need to call you a Dumbass.

But remember - you're still my boy. We'll call you Fez.


OK, it's SUPPOSED to be a free country. Better?

Love,

-Fez
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Offline DakotaT  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:27:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
OK, it's SUPPOSED to be a free country. Better?

Love,

-Fez



You can't be Fez; you have to be Bob, the dumbass who gets all the undeserved hot snapper and is rich for no apparent good reason.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:33:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
No, Zero and Zombie incredibly boneheaded, but because you are also bullheaded - I give up trying to educate you. If you think you live in a free country than that is all the proof I need to call you a Dumbass.

But remember - you're still my boy. We'll call you Fez.


Name calling and failure to address a point that completely shot your theory out of the water. Interesting.


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Offline MontanaBob  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:40:39 PM(UTC)
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Hey, no one gets to be me except me. Bob...MontanaBob....What about Bob?.....Hey Bobber....
I have copyrights on that, so Fez has to change it to something else.
Anyone for a Weenie Roast?
Offline DakotaT  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:45:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Name calling and failure to address a point that completely shot your theory out of the water. Interesting.




What point are you making "we live in a free country, everything goes?" f*cking assinine.

Talk about a broad swipe. I posed the question is being gay a learned behavior or is it nature? Let's answer that first, then we can go into all the dipshit tangents we normally do in our discussions. I've already given the reason why this is important. It's choice over something you can't control. If it is choice then it is a choice being made with certain consequences.

My official stance on this topic is that these people are being discriminated against and that we do not live in a free country (since Fez and Bob had to throw us that bone). But many of these people are choosing this path, while others are naturally gay.
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Offline DakotaT  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:46:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MontanaBob Go to Quoted Post
Hey, no one gets to be me except me. Bob...MontanaBob....What about Bob?.....Hey Bobber....
I have copyrights on that, so Fez has to change it to something else.



If you watch the 70's show, you might want to change your name. I'm not giving these guys compliments by all means. All I know is that I'm Red.
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Offline Pack93z  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:06:14 PM(UTC)
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Okay.. so what is the criteria for being born gay verses "learned" behavior?

Let's define what would qualify as "learned" behavior.. I will use some examples..


Would someone that experienced a traumatic experience as a child, thus altering their life choice qualify?

Or how about someone after some experimentation with the opposite sex finds their way to choosing the same sex instead?

How does self discovery or living under some sort of repression calculate in?

Is there some magical cutoff that should be used in a case by case basis? If so.. when they go apply for a marriage license how does when tell if they qualify or not?

Personally.. this is one of the issues that got me expelled from Sunday School as a teen.. there was another in class that was gay and the treatment of this person by the church was awful. Down right pathetic.. and they call themselves right and holy. (sorry different topic).

Just like most other things in life, people grow, change and discover themselves in this thing called life... so really, how does one answer that root question.. born or not born a certain way?

It isn't like sex, race or ethnic background.. it can't be proven to date by any physical markers.. so why even try and judge upon the subject.

Would it not be more fair and correct to allow them "free choice" over their life decisions if it doesn't harm another?

Edited by user Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:46:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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zombieslayer on 9/28/2011(UTC), Zero2Cool on 9/28/2011(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:07:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
What point are you making "we live in a free country, everything goes?" f*cking assinine.

Talk about a broad swipe. I posed the question is being gay a learned behavior or is it nature? Let's answer that first, then we can go into all the dipshit tangents we normally do in our discussions. I've already given the reason why this is important. It's choice over something you can't control. If it is choice then it is a choice being made with certain consequences.

My official stance on this topic is that these people are being discriminated against and that we do not live in a free country (since Fez and Bob had to throw us that bone). But many of these people are choosing this path, while others are naturally gay.


Dakota - Both. Or neither. I don't know. I don't interview every gay man I know and say "so, were you born gay or did you become gay because you had a magic moment with some cute guy?" Frankly, that's none of my business.

None of the government's business either. I think that's what Zero was getting at and I agree with Zero.

As for the hot snapper, I got game.

As for the money, I got a work ethic, focus, and a personality.

Neither came for free amigo. You can still call me Fez though. MontanaBob's got dibs on Bob.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:32:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
What point are you making "we live in a free country, everything goes?" f*cking assinine.

Talk about a broad swipe. I posed the question is being gay a learned behavior or is it nature? Let's answer that first, then we can go into all the dipshit tangents we normally do in our discussions. I've already given the reason why this is important. It's choice over something you can't control. If it is choice then it is a choice being made with certain consequences.

My official stance on this topic is that these people are being discriminated against and that we do not live in a free country (since Fez and Bob had to throw us that bone). But many of these people are choosing this path, while others are naturally gay.


I'm not surprised you missed it. Anyhow, yes, we do live in a "free" country and should be able to marry whomever we choose, as Shawn stated, regardless of sex, race, etc ...

I also pointed out you are incorrect with your illogical statement that "a lot" of lesbians are as such because of abuse. If that's how you feel, then you're not asking if being gay is learned or something you're born with, you've already decided it's a result of events in ones life, thus, it's "learned".

And I'm saying, regardless of being homosexual being choice or something you're "born" with is not relevant in deciding what experiences a homosexual couple can experience versus that of a heterosexual couple. What if someone chooses a partner who has blonde hair, but the law prevents that marriage to occur? Sounds pretty ignorant doesnt it, just like disallowing homosexuals the right to marriage.

One issue I recall about this was something about health insurance. I'm not sure how it effects that or taxes, but I do remember it was said.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:07:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I'm not surprised you missed it. Anyhow, yes, we do live in a "free" country and should be able to marry whomever we choose, as Shawn stated, regardless of sex, race, etc ...

I also pointed out you are incorrect with your illogical statement that "a lot" of lesbians are as such because of abuse. If that's how you feel, then you're not asking if being gay is learned or something you're born with, you've already decided it's a result of events in ones life, thus, it's "learned".

And I'm saying, regardless of being homosexual being choice or something you're "born" with is not relevant in deciding what experiences a homosexual couple can experience versus that of a heterosexual couple. What if someone chooses a partner who has blonde hair, but the law prevents that marriage to occur? Sounds pretty ignorant doesnt it, just like disallowing homosexuals the right to marriage.

One issue I recall about this was something about health insurance. I'm not sure how it effects that or taxes, but I do remember it was said.


Agree.

Just to answer your very last question, most companies in Northern California have a domestic partner option when it comes to insurance. I work in a pretty small company and I had that option. A company here better, if they want to attract good employees.

The nice thing about domestic partnerships here is anyone can use them - gay, straight, whatever.

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