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Offline dfosterf  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:38:57 AM(UTC)
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I don't like this thread, I don't like it at all. Nodak makes far too much sense and I hate it when that happens, especially coming from a Vikings fan. The only response I have to silly threads like this one is... Oh ya, well, I'm gonna go get my big brother... THEN we'll see.
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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline NodakPaul  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:55:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
no edge on the passing game? Come on, you have tarvaris jackson and who at receiver?


I didn't look at the Packers passing offense versus the Vikings passing offense. Why would I? Those two units are never on the field at the same time.

When I look at the Vikings passing DEFENSE versus the Packers passing OFFENSE, I call it a tie. When I look at the Vikings passing OFFENSE against the Packers passing DEFENSE, I gave the advantage to the Packers.


And what basis can you possibly use to support this? You pass defense has been one of the worst in the league and our pass offense one of the best. If, in fact, this catagory was even close to a tie it would be us losing 34-0 instead of you guys.

You guys have plenty of strengths but pass defense ain't one of 'em and until they prove that not to be true it is what it is. The facts are your DB's do not match up well with our catch and run receivers so I cannot see how in the world you can call this a draw.

The bottom line is if AP breaks loose for big gains we probably lose the game and there is certainly reason to be concerned (for us) that this could happen but our passing offense is going to get the better of the Vikes pass "D".


&lt;sigh&gt; Did you even read the original post? I think I stated my reasons pretty well. Here is that particular section again:
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Vikings Passing Defense vs Packers Passing Offense
Edge: None

For the Pack, Driver and Jennings can be difference makers, and even though Rodgers is new to the starting spot, this is his fourth year in the system. HOwever, the Packers OL is in a bad spot. Not only have they not given the QB any time so far in preseason, Scott Wells was also hampered by a torso injury throughout preseason. If he can't start, expect Spitz to continue to fill in at center. With the extent of Josh Sitton's knee injury still unknown, we could be looking at Barbre and Colledge as the two startign guards this year. If the OL was in better shape, the edge would go to the Packers here. But because of the OL, it is a tie.
On the Vikings side, I am not going to cite Minnesota's last place ranking in total passing yards last year because that stat is skewed by the run defense. Sharper and Madieu Williams are still learning to work with each other, and they haven't been on the field together a lot in the preseason. Griffin is looking better, but still needs some polishing at the CB position. Jared Allen will definitely bring the pressure, and will get at least one sack. The Vikings easily have one of the best DLs in the league, and that should translate into a much better passing defense.


While your pass offense was very good last year, there are several things different this year. I like Rodgers as a QB, but he will not put up the same kind of numbers that Fav-re did last year - especially not in his first NFL start. Your OL has also been hit hard by the injury bug.

As for the Vikings, while our pass defense was poor last year, there are several things different this year. Specifically the addition of a pass rush, which was sorely lacking last year.

I agree that the packers WRs have the edge over the Vikings secondary, especially with M.Williams out. But they are only a part of the passing equation. You also have a green QB behind a suspect OL against the best DL in the league. The advantages and disadvantages to both teams even out rather well.
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline zombieslayer  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:07:02 PM(UTC)
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The whole Packers Pass O vs Vikings Pass D rests on our OL vs their DL. Yes, we have better WRs than their DBs. I think Nodak has stated this more than once. But as we saw in the Super Bowl, the threat of a superior WR staff can be minimized by a strong pass rush.

The Giants DBs were average at best and Randy Moss was hands down the best WR in the NFL last year. What happened? The DL never gave Brady enough time to even look for an open receiver.

So this whole argument goes to how our OL fares up against their DL. Our OL is battered. We'll need Wells healthy, and we'll need better blocking by our RBs because you know someone will get through.

I'm guessing the determining factors in this game will be turnovers and the battle of our OL vs their DL. AP is the 2nd best RB in the NFL, but if we can keep him off the field, then we can minimize his threat.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline pack_in_black  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:11:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post



......


And the Packers have lost a key component to their second ranked passing attack from last year. While I think that Rodgers will be a good QB, I don't think he will be able to put up a very good performance against the Vikings. First start ever, nationally televised game, a quarter of the fans still booing him, going against the best DL in the league, and Fav-re's picture printed on every ticket. Lots of pressure...




First, that Favre on the tickets line made me laugh. Since I think I detected humorous intent, I doubt Aaron's gonna be on the sidelines between drives looking at fans' ticket stubs... lol


While I agree he'll show a little response to the pressure, he did fine on MNF's preseason opener, so the national audience thing shouldn't be a big factor, the Lambeau faithful gave him a standing o in his first appearance as a starter, and Mike McCarthy is a good enough coach to call plays to protect him from your admittedly impressive d-line.

Just my two pennies
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Offline TheEngineer  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:34:20 PM(UTC)
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Rank: 5th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post



......


And the Packers have lost a key component to their second ranked passing attack from last year. While I think that Rodgers will be a good QB, I don't think he will be able to put up a very good performance against the Vikings. First start ever, nationally televised game, a quarter of the fans still booing him, going against the best DL in the league, and Fav-re's picture printed on every ticket. Lots of pressure...




First, that Favre on the tickets line made me laugh. Since I think I detected humorous intent, I doubt Aaron's gonna be on the sidelines between drives looking at fans' ticket stubs... lol


While I agree he'll show a little response to the pressure, he did fine on MNF's preseason opener, so the national audience thing shouldn't be a big factor, the Lambeau faithful gave him a standing o in his first appearance as a starter, and Mike McCarthy is a good enough coach to call plays to protect him from your admittedly impressive d-line.

Just my two pennies


I think Aaron has learned something between preseason game 1 and preseason game 4. That's if you try and push too hard to do well and try to make things happen, chances are you're going to get sacked. Just play within yourself and make the quick throws, and he'll be fine.

For this reason I think he'll be less daunted by the the MNF game, and it won't be as big as a factor as it usually is for 1st time starters (who are generally within their first 2 or 3 years - not a 4 year, same offense man like Rodgers).
blank
Offline warhawk  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:28:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
no edge on the passing game? Come on, you have tarvaris jackson and who at receiver?


I didn't look at the Packers passing offense versus the Vikings passing offense. Why would I? Those two units are never on the field at the same time.

When I look at the Vikings passing DEFENSE versus the Packers passing OFFENSE, I call it a tie. When I look at the Vikings passing OFFENSE against the Packers passing DEFENSE, I gave the advantage to the Packers.


And what basis can you possibly use to support this? You pass defense has been one of the worst in the league and our pass offense one of the best. If, in fact, this catagory was even close to a tie it would be us losing 34-0 instead of you guys.

You guys have plenty of strengths but pass defense ain't one of 'em and until they prove that not to be true it is what it is. The facts are your DB's do not match up well with our catch and run receivers so I cannot see how in the world you can call this a draw.

The bottom line is if AP breaks loose for big gains we probably lose the game and there is certainly reason to be concerned (for us) that this could happen but our passing offense is going to get the better of the Vikes pass "D".


&lt;sigh&gt; Did you even read the original post? I think I stated my reasons pretty well. Here is that particular section again:
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Vikings Passing Defense vs Packers Passing Offense
Edge: None

For the Pack, Driver and Jennings can be difference makers, and even though Rodgers is new to the starting spot, this is his fourth year in the system. HOwever, the Packers OL is in a bad spot. Not only have they not given the QB any time so far in preseason, Scott Wells was also hampered by a torso injury throughout preseason. If he can't start, expect Spitz to continue to fill in at center. With the extent of Josh Sitton's knee injury still unknown, we could be looking at Barbre and Colledge as the two startign guards this year. If the OL was in better shape, the edge would go to the Packers here. But because of the OL, it is a tie.
On the Vikings side, I am not going to cite Minnesota's last place ranking in total passing yards last year because that stat is skewed by the run defense. Sharper and Madieu Williams are still learning to work with each other, and they haven't been on the field together a lot in the preseason. Griffin is looking better, but still needs some polishing at the CB position. Jared Allen will definitely bring the pressure, and will get at least one sack. The Vikings easily have one of the best DLs in the league, and that should translate into a much better passing defense.


While your pass offense was very good last year, there are several things different this year. I like Rodgers as a QB, but he will not put up the same kind of numbers that Fav-re did last year - especially not in his first NFL start. Your OL has also been hit hard by the injury bug.

As for the Vikings, while our pass defense was poor last year, there are several things different this year. Specifically the addition of a pass rush, which was sorely lacking last year.

I agree that the packers WRs have the edge over the Vikings secondary, especially with M.Williams out. But they are only a part of the passing equation. You also have a green QB behind a suspect OL against the best DL in the league. The advantages and disadvantages to both teams even out rather well.


In '05 when we had the top rated pass defense I thought it was a joke because nobody HAD to throw it to beat us. Conversely, I see no justification for a poor pass defense because you stop the run well? What does that have to do with anything other than they should KNOW they opposing teams are going to throw it at them and SHOULD be able then to stop it.

Your same comments could easily have been made last year about how outclassed our young "O" line would be against that "D" front yet we eaked out a 34-0 win.

You also seem to put a lot of eggs in the Jared Allen basket to all of a sudden take a team that was poor at rushing the QB and now they will be good there. Better does not make good enough until that is proven.

I like Ted Thompson because he deals in reality and gets the guys that are needed to really make a team better over pure optimism. The Vikes struck one cord there and that was Allen but as far as TJack, he should be long gone and some guys remotely capable to the days of Moss are sorely needed at receiver. No, an ex-Bear that's never done jack against us does not qualify.

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good. You can say what you want about NY and yes they played unbelievable on defense but what won that SB was Eli getting hot those last 7-8 games. He plays same ole, same ole, and NY get's no where near the SB. That's reality.

And if ARod doesn't get it done you can pretty well know we will suck too so that you see that reality is for everyone.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline bozz_2006  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:30:42 PM(UTC)
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well done warhawk. +1
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Offline zombieslayer  
#38 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:09:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The Vikes struck one cord there and that was Allen but as far as TJack, he should be long gone and some guys remotely capable to the days of Moss are sorely needed at receiver. No, an ex-Bear that's never done jack against us does not qualify.



To beat the Vikings this year is to beat them the same way in '07. Keep AP off the field. How? Get an early lead. Childress will panic and start playing TJack instead of their dynamic running duo and we win.

Things we cannot do:
1) turn the ball over,
2) let anyone get to Aaron.

I don't see the big deal about Berrian. He's an average WR. Not a huge pickup. We keep their running game off the field and force them to pass, we win in a blowout.

I'm always worried about the Vikings every year because on paper, they look absolutely sick. Then the season starts and they implode.

On paper, the Vikings should be in a position to challenge us for the NFC North. But as I've said earlier this year, even without Favre, the NFC North is ours. The Vikings will find a way to screw it all up.

Sorry, Nodak. You know what they say about history.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline NodakPaul  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:57:10 PM(UTC)
NodakPaul

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good.


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline porky88  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:18:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good.


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.


Wait a second. This isn't the first time I've heard a Viking fan compare their team to those teams but that defense isn't on the level of Baltimore's or Tampa Bay's from those Super Bowl years. Their defensive line maybe but Derrick Brooks or Ray Lewis isn't there.

Tampa Bay had a nice passing game the year they won the Super Bowl. Johnson threw for over 3,000 yards and 22 touchdowns. Also only 6 picks when I looked it up which is amazing. Keyshaun Johnson was a pretty good receiver too something Minnesota really doesn't have.

You strike me as someone who is a realist. Do you think that defense can be like the Ravens? If not then do you think Jackson can have a season like Brad Johnson?

For Minnesota to win the Super Bowl I think one of those things need to happen.
Offline jdlax  
#41 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:08:41 AM(UTC)
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When we were younger, I remember riding with my brother in the backseat of our minivan. Being older, I'm kinda bugging him, giving him a hard time about something. He calls me a dick. I ask him if he knows how to spell it. D-A-K, he says. Isn't that funny, NodakPaul?

:D

Sorry for that, all.
blank
Offline NodakPaul  
#42 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:55:38 AM(UTC)
NodakPaul

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good.


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.


Wait a second. This isn't the first time I've heard a Viking fan compare their team to those teams but that defense isn't on the level of Baltimore's or Tampa Bay's from those Super Bowl years. Their defensive line maybe but Derrick Brooks or Ray Lewis isn't there.

Tampa Bay had a nice passing game the year they won the Super Bowl. Johnson threw for over 3,000 yards and 22 touchdowns. Also only 6 picks when I looked it up which is amazing. Keyshaun Johnson was a pretty good receiver too something Minnesota really doesn't have.

You strike me as someone who is a realist. Do you think that defense can be like the Ravens? If not then do you think Jackson can have a season like Brad Johnson?

For Minnesota to win the Super Bowl I think one of those things need to happen.


Honestly, I think that the Minnesota Defense, while good, isn't on par with the Ravens or TB from the SB days. Nor do I have much faith in TJack. I agree that one of those two things needs to happen for Minnesota to make the super bowl. Is it possible? Sure. But I am not booking my hotel in Tampa just yet...

However, this thread isn't about whether or not I think the Vikings will make the super bowl. It is about how Minnesota matches up against Green Bay in week 1. And I don't think that the passing game will be strong for either team. The Vikings have a better line, and a very, very good 2nd receiver in Rice, but their QB and overall WR corps are unproven right now. The Packers have a better WR corps and probably a better QB, but an OL that is going to be dominated by the Vikings DL all game long. I stand by my earlier prediction that the running game will be the difference in week 1, and to that I give Minnesota the edge.
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline NodakPaul  
#43 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:59:50 AM(UTC)
NodakPaul

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
When we were younger, I remember riding with my brother in the backseat of our minivan. Being older, I'm kinda bugging him, giving him a hard time about something. He calls me a dick. I ask him if he knows how to spell it. D-A-K, he says. Isn't that funny, NodakPaul?

:D

Sorry for that, all.


I would reply about the WI education system, the inability of cheeseheads to spell, and the fact that I am secure enough in my manhood to laugh off dick jokes.

But since there is no smack here, I won't. :D
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline warhawk  
#44 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:53:16 AM(UTC)
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Well Nodak, predictions are fine and all but we will still be starting basically the same group we had in there last year so to say now your line will dominate all game long is a stretch for me. I mean one guy we may be missing is a rookie and there has been talk that Spitz may very well be better at center than Wells anyhow. The one time we did have trouble in the line in pre-season Wells had come back in there to start and hadn't had enough work with the first group. Last week, without him, they protected just fine.

If you had improved CB and Safety personnel I would give your optimism more support. But I have seen too many times where a team brings in a big time FA and expects the world and it does not happen.

I mean Allen can't go out and guard DD or Jennings on a quick slant and to date neither can anybody else they have out there. Don't count on him to run over what amounts to a near All-Pro tackle either. Our guy got the best of him in last years matchup as well so when we talk real time experience there is no proof you can "dominate" all game long.

Where is it that the Vikes pass protection has now all of a sudden gotten so good the Pack can expect no success there and your line will dominate in that area as well? McCarthy is not stupid. He's going to load up on AP and then send the horses after TJack and if you don't think they can get after him I believe your mistaken.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline zombieslayer  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:17:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.


I'll actually defend Brad Johnson. He's a quite capable QB. He doesn't turn the ball over and completes passes. Nothing exciting, nothing to write home about, but he gets the job done.

da Bears lost the SB because they couldn't throw. Wrecks Grossman panicked and lost them the game. Well, actually, his dumb ass coach should have pulled him out, but he was too stupid.

Back to Brad Johnson, take a look at his all-time stats. They're a lot nice than people realize. He was a capable QB. Pro Bowl in '99 and '02. 164 TDs vs 117 INTs. 28k+ yards. 83.1 rating. Like I said, nothing exciting, but pretty capable. The guy got the job done. I don't know why people dog the guy.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
 
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