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Offline wpr  
#16 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 6:59:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: greengold Go to Quoted Post
That's not what I'm saying at all. All I'm saying is that late round picks aren't as worthless as some make them out to be. And you get extra late round picks by trading back just a few spots in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds.

I'm not even sure what the original point was. I think someone was ragging on Ted Thompson for having so many late round picks. He has gone the opposite way before, traded away late picks to move up a few spots to grab an impact player. Isn't that how they got Clay Matthews III?




see THAT is the point. Get rid of the more or less useless low round picks and spend them on quality higher round picks. You get so much more value with higher picks. You get what you pay for.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#17 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:09:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
see THAT is the point. Get rid of the more or less useless low round picks and spend them on quality higher round picks. You get so much more value with higher picks. You get what you pay for.


yeah but ......... hahaha.

If you could count on ALWAYS getting a CMIII, your logic flies. But as was said early on in the thread, Ted Thompson figures the percentages lie with quantity. Who are we mere mortals to argue hahaha?
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Offline wpr  
#18 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:14:10 PM(UTC)
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I did a quick check on Baltimore. The Super Bowl roster was only 37% 6th 7th round picks along with undrafted free agents. They also had 59% of the starting lineup that were 1st (7) or 2nd (6) round picks. GB had 6 firsts and 2 second or 36%. (That included Bulaga) If you add Benson, Sherrod and Perry they would have been 50%.

Someone else can check on SF. Point is the team who won the SB had better quality players across the board on their roster than GB did. Sure it is nice when an UDFA like Williams or Shields works hard and becomes the starting CB. But the Ed Reeds of the world have a better track record of success.
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Offline steveishere  
#19 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:15:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
see THAT is the point. Get rid of the more or less useless low round picks and spend them on quality higher round picks. You get so much more value with higher picks. You get what you pay for.


It doesn't work like that though. Ted Thompson isn't sitting there simply going "man I just want more picks even though there's some great players on the board, I'll just trade back anyways" If the players aren't there to get you cannot get them simple as that. Ted Thompson trusts the board and the scouts/evaluators. If the board says there's a bunch of guys of the same quality and no standout players then he's going to trade back and get one of those same quality players and add more chances late in the draft.

He's shown that if there's a significant player to trade up for he WILL do it so you cannot really claim he's avoiding that situation. You don't just trade up to get a player because "higher round picks have a better chance to work out" if your board doesn't say those players are worth it. On top of that each draft is different. Just because one year had a bunch of studs in the 2nd round doesn't mean the next year every 2nd rounder will be a stud ( they may all be a bust).
Offline wpr  
#20 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:18:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
yeah but ......... hahaha.

If you could count on ALWAYS getting a CMIII, your logic flies. But as was said early on in the thread, Ted Thompson figures the percentages lie with quantity. Who are we mere mortals to argue hahaha?


You don't always get CM III. You just get a better chance of finding him in the higher rounds not in the 6th or 7th.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#21 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:27:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
You don't always get CM III. You just get a better chance of finding him in the higher rounds not in the 6th or 7th.


hahahahahahahaha how many CMIIIs do you want anyway? You wake up a few years later with a headache of how to keep them and still fit with the salary cap hahahahaha.

I tend to agree with you, but I can't fire Ted Thompson and hire you just yet. Wait for him to have 5 or 10 years of bad teams, then I'll back you all the way hahahahaha.

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Offline wpr  
#22 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:33:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
It doesn't work like that though. Ted Thompson isn't sitting there simply going "man I just want more picks even though there's some great players on the board, I'll just trade back anyways" If the players aren't there to get you cannot get them simple as that. Ted Thompson trusts the board and the scouts/evaluators. If the board says there's a bunch of guys of the same quality and no standout players then he's going to trade back and get one of those same quality players and add more chances late in the draft.

He's shown that if there's a significant player to trade up for he WILL do it so you cannot really claim he's avoiding that situation. You don't just trade up to get a player because "higher round picks have a better chance to work out" if your board doesn't say those players are worth it. On top of that each draft is different. Just because one year had a bunch of studs in the 2nd round doesn't mean the next year every 2nd rounder will be a stud ( they may all be a bust).


never did I say that Ted will always trade back. never did I say he avoids that situation. Obviously he has traded up several times. The point is he has traded back many more times than he has traded up.

You can't say that Ted "WILL do it" (trade up). He has done so so few times in his time as GM. No doubt the other franchises may have been asking for more than he was willing to give. As I said and then you said Ted puts more value on having 10 low level picks than on having 2-3 very higher picks. In his first couple of years when GB was in cap space hell. It made sense.

You are correct that every draft is different. I never said it wasn't. We only have to look at 2006 to see that when GB picked Hawk. He is not a bad player and fans would like him a whole lot better if GB got him in the 3rd round instead of #5 overall.

As for what the board says, you don't know what is on Ted's board. Some of the players that go in the early rounds are on his board. I never said he must trade up and give away every single low round draft pick every single year for me to be happy. I said Ted tends to go with lower picks more often than not. AND more often than not the lower round picks are not as good as the higher round picks.
If you want to be a winner put winners on the team. There are more winners in the higher rounds than in the lower ones.
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Offline wpr  
#23 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:36:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
hahahahahahahaha how many CMIIIs do you want anyway? You wake up a few years later with a headache of how to keep them and still fit with the salary cap hahahahaha.

I tend to agree with you, but I can't fire Ted Thompson and hire you just yet. Wait for him to have 5 or 10 years of bad teams, then I'll back you all the way hahahahaha.



OH MY!!! let's not stock the team with quality players. We may have to pay them money some day down the road in 3-4 years.

I don't want the job. "If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve."

To answer your question- I want 22 CM 3 type players.
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Offline wpr  
#24 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:40:49 PM(UTC)
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To tie my rant back in to Zero's title- I want a team that wins in the playoffs not one that merely shows up and then goes home a week or two later. I guess some of you are happy with it. I am ok with you liking a form of mediocrity.
I measure success by championships.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#25 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:56:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
To tie my rant back in to Zero's title- I want a team that wins in the playoffs not one that merely shows up and then goes home a week or two later. I guess some of you are happy with it. I am ok with you liking a form of mediocrity.
I measure success by championships.


What's that expression: "Don't let good be the enemy of great" or something like that ....... I empathize completely with your point of view, but I'm pretty damn happy with the type of "mediocrity" we have had also. Ted Thompson seems to be trying for a middle course - going for it all with a minimum risk of dropping off from the great place we already are. This might just be the year we really do have it ALL.

And my half serious point about too many CMIIIs was that you bump up against the salary cap if you have too many superstars to get re-signed.

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Offline steveishere  
#26 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 8:16:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
To tie my rant back in to Zero's title- I want a team that wins in the playoffs not one that merely shows up and then goes home a week or two later. I guess some of you are happy with it. I am ok with you liking a form of mediocrity.
I measure success by championships.


That's nice and all but every team but 2 goes home a week or two later every year. I guess the sooner you realize the team you like isn't going to be one of the 2 out of 32 teams that makes the big game every single year (no matter what team you like) the easier it will be for you. You are putting up unrealistic expectations. Obviously every fan want's their team to win the Superbowl every year, wanting that doesn't make you special but demanding that makes you irrational.
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Offline DakotaT  
#27 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 2:41:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
see THAT is the point. Get rid of the more or less useless low round picks and spend them on quality higher round picks. You get so much more value with higher picks. You get what you pay for.


Uncle Ted gave us a championship with the multiple draft pick system and you question it? Drafting in the late 20's in every round every year and still being a top team annually comes from having a very skilled GM. Maybe we should all just kiss his ass a little more instead of questioning his methods and pouting about more championships.

We had a GM that always thought we were 1 or 2 players away and that didn't pan out too well.
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Offline nerdmann  
#28 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 4:38:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
That's nice and all but every team but 2 goes home a week or two later every year. I guess the sooner you realize the team you like isn't going to be one of the 2 out of 32 teams that makes the big game every single year (no matter what team you like) the easier it will be for you. You are putting up unrealistic expectations. Obviously every fan want's their team to win the Superbowl every year, wanting that doesn't make you special but demanding that makes you irrational.


If we played above our abilities and still lost in the NFCC, that would be cool.

But when we are the superior team and we sh*t ourselves, it disgusts me.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline wpr  
#29 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 5:39:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post


And my half serious point about too many CMIIIs was that you bump up against the salary cap if you have too many superstars to get re-signed.



wouldn't THAT be a great problem to have? I would never worry about it. The answer is simple. Use them while you have them and then let a few or most walk when the time comes. No worries.

To everyone else- HA! You are getting WAY to worked up over this. Like Dakota mentioned we are only talking about a 1-2 maybe 3 player difference in the team and you are pummeling me for nothing.

I do not hate Uncle Teddy. I think he has done a heck of a job. however we have been discussing in general. Let's get specific. Who feels that it would have been better to have Darius Butler, Derek Cox and Brandon Tate on the Packers instead of Clay? Oops Clay AND Jamon Meredith. Certainly Butler, Cox and Tate have had decent careers. For the most part. Nothing spectacular. But they line up and play week end and week out. Moving up in the draft gives you a better chance at a Pro Bowl caliber player than moving down in the draft. Not a one of you can disagree with that. Just look at the wiki drafts for the past 10 years. More All Pro and Pro Bowl players are taken in the early rounds than the later ones.

Since Uncle Ted does a great job of stocking the team the need to pluck a couple of studs from time to time in lue of 10 more guys who are just passing through is required.

As for the line about measuring success based on championships- is that not Mike Mc Carthy's quote? or a paraphrased version of it?
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline Pack93z  
#30 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 6:47:14 AM(UTC)
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If we are going to "blame" the composition of the roster for our post season failure.. then we best remember it was those same type of players that netted us a ring in 2010.

We have talent up and down this roster.. talent is not the problem.

I still maintain.. I will continue to, point most of the blame of our post season failures on our imbalance in offensive play calling.. IE, failing to develop a running game to balance our offense and our team.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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thanks Post received 3 applause.
SINCITYCHEEZE on 5/17/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 5/17/2013(UTC), greengold on 5/17/2013(UTC)
 
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