Discussion Board
Zero2Cool
2021-01-26T18:22:35Z

Packers Defense
Total Yards : 9th
Rushing Yards : 13th
Passing Yards : 7th
Points Against: 13th
Opponent Team Passer Rating : 12th
3rd Down PCT : 10th
Red Zone : 8th
Sacks/Pass Attempt : 8th
Goal To Go : 4th

The defense actually ranks pretty damn well. That coverage call or execution or whatever it was with :01 left in the half vs Buccaneers was atrocious. Does that one failure negate the season of success?
UserPostedImage
nerdmann
2021-01-26T21:07:54Z
There were also free plays for 12 men on the field.

I'd be ok if he was replaced, but that's up to Matt. This defense does get stops when we need them, pretty often. Get some DTs. CBs who can hang onto INTs.

Would we want a young up and coming guy or an old hand who has experience? Pettine is experienced, seen it all.

I think Pettine has proven he's at least adequate against the run.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
2021-01-26T21:14:29Z
Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

There were also free plays for 12 men on the field.

I'd be ok if he was replaced, but that's up to Matt. This defense does get stops when we need them, pretty often. Get some DTs. CBs who can hang onto INTs.

Would we want a young up and coming guy or an old hand who has experience? Pettine is experienced, seen it all.

I think Pettine has proven he's at least adequate against the run.



Who is at fault for 12 men on the field? Is that the position coaches? Is that communication failure due to injuries? I don't know who that falls on and sure it's easy to just fault the coordinator. I'm more interested in how it can be corrected than firing a guy because the team had 12 men on the field a few times throughout the season. Should the Packers cut Mason Crosby because he missed a handful of extra points?
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
2021-01-26T22:07:05Z
Were Kevin Kings screw ups because of where the coach told him to be? Or was that all on King? That’s a question I’d like to see the answer to. That would help me in deciding who to hold accountable.
The yanking of the Jersey, for all to see, that’s 100% on King. A high schooler knows not to do that.
You take a guy like Alexander, who shines on the field, and on the other side you have a guy like King that constantly misses making plays.
You need to cut King and get someone that has more talent to take his place. He’s too consistent in his screwing up.
Any QB that has half a brain will pick on him, as the obvious weak link. Which Brady did.

So....who gets held accountable? Was it “just” a lack of talent, or also coaching? I don’t think any of us know enough facts to decide.
UserPostedImage
macbob
2021-01-26T23:26:48Z
Personally, I like Pettine and the memories of all the years of defensive crapiness we had before he became our DC (going back to before Capers). I'm hoping Pettine comes back again and we're not having to start over from scratch on D.
UserPostedImage
TheKanataThrilla
2021-01-27T00:53:43Z
This team is often one of the worst when it comes to paying the Defensive side of the ball. I think 2020 was the first time they were in the top 10 in a long time. It is hard to have a great D when all the salary cap is spent on O. Especially when you miss as often as we have on top Defensive draft picks.

Defense spending by cap
Year Rank #players Cap $ Average Cap %
2020 7 24 $78,183,236 $3,257,635 38.34%
2019 22 22 $53,619,373 $2,437,244 27.21%
2018 32 21 $26,876,613 $1,279,839 14.84%
beast
2021-01-27T03:45:26Z
Without knowing more of their teaching and what the players were before and after and if he's able to command the players, it's impossible to tell.

Personally I enjoy what Pettie does up front with the twist and using the talent he got... but this year showed the Packers are really lacking at DT when Clark isn't playing at his elite level for whatever reason.

Though, I really dislike with how conservative he is on the back end, and I have wondered why...

  • Is it because he's content to play it safe? His history would say no... but who someone is in the past and who they are now, aren't always the same.
  • Is it because he doesn't trust his DBs? Which I can understand, as I don't trust the CBs outside of Alexander and really wanted them to draft a CB high in last year draft.
  • Is it because for some reason, he thinks that's best with the current offensive schemes?
  • Is it because sometimes he might make bad play calls?


That question needs to be answered... as well,.to know if he should be fired. I've been under the assumption he's using the Safeties to cover up for the CBs potential mistakes, especially when you can fairly easily get a mix match with King if you have the guys with the right skill sets (I thought King might be following the large WR around and let Alexander handle the others) but that assumption, is just that, that an assumption.


I think whomever is the DC, you want better CB talent that were had.

UserPostedImage
nerdmann
2021-01-27T04:00:11Z
Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 

This team is often one of the worst when it comes to paying the Defensive side of the ball. I think 2020 was the first time they were in the top 10 in a long time. It is hard to have a great D when all the salary cap is spent on O. Especially when you miss as often as we have on top Defensive draft picks.

Defense spending by cap
Year Rank #players Cap $ Average Cap %
2020 7 24 $78,183,236 $3,257,635 38.34%
2019 22 22 $53,619,373 $2,437,244 27.21%
2018 32 21 $26,876,613 $1,279,839 14.84%



Sounds like aaron wants to give back some money. Perhaps Aaron Jones will get some.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
2021-01-27T04:08:06Z
Originally Posted by: beast 

Without knowing more of their teaching and what the players were before and after and if he's able to command the players, it's impossible to tell.

Personally I enjoy what Pettie does up front with the twist and using the talent he got... but this year showed the Packers are really lacking at DT when Clark isn't playing at his elite level for whatever reason.

Though, I really dislike with how conservative he is on the back end, and I have wondered why...

  • Is it because he's content to play it safe? His history would say no... but who someone is in the past and who they are now, aren't always the same.
  • Is it because he doesn't trust his DBs? Which I can understand, as I don't trust the CBs outside of Alexander and really wanted them to draft a CB high in last year draft.
  • Is it because for some reason, he thinks that's best with the current offensive schemes?
  • Is it because sometimes he might make bad play calls?


That question needs to be answered... as well,.to know if he should be fired. I've been under the assumption he's using the Safeties to cover up for the CBs potential mistakes, especially when you can fairly easily get a mix match with King if you have the guys with the right skill sets (I thought King might be following the large WR around and let Alexander handle the others) but that assumption, is just that, that an assumption.


I think whomever is the DC, you want better CB talent that were had.



To me, Pettine is a solid DC, above average. But he's not one of these "Norman Einstein" guess who can take shitty players and win with just scheme. (Although he did very well with Nick Perry and post-juice Clay Matthews.)

He's always gonna be solid, but not often spectacular. Then again, what King did this weekend was not solid, and 12-men penalties, also not solid. I hypothesize this thing with King was some kind of gambling debt or something. It was very suspect. So let's give Pettine a pass on that for now.

Is that what you want, a guy who's solid? More steak than sizzle? Then lean toward keeping him. But get him another DT and maybe a CB who can play. Our future at ILB looks pretty good, imo. (Not to jinx.)
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
2021-01-27T04:34:53Z
Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

Sounds like aaron wants to give back some money. Perhaps Aaron Jones will get some.



I don't believe it... player don't give back money... cap space, maybe, but that's only because they're locking the money up in their bank account and letting the team account for it later (it's a win/win now, but the future has less cap space)

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

To me, Pettine is a solid DC, above average. But he's not one of these "Norman Einstein" guess who can take shitty players and win with just scheme. (Although he did very well with Nick Perry and post-juice Clay Matthews.)

He's always gonna be solid, but not often spectacular. Then again, what King did this weekend was not solid, and 12-men penalties, also not solid. I hypothesize this thing with King was some kind of gambling debt or something. It was very suspect. So let's give Pettine a pass on that for now.

Is that what you want, a guy who's solid? More steak than sizzle? Then lean toward keeping him. But get him another DT and maybe a CB who can play. Our future at ILB looks pretty good, imo. (Not to jinx.)

Rules are so favored to the offense and so much offensive talent and people have made great points with the spread offenses in college less players are being forced to go play DB in college...

So more than ever before offense has great amazing athletes and defense has less so, plus the spread offense is mentally easy for defenders which means they're less mentally ready when they have to go against more pro-styles.


But basically everything is going against defensive coaches right now, so maybe with the exception of Bill Belichick, I don't think their is an "'Norman Einstein' guess who can take shitty players and win with just scheme." out there...

But Iowa State has done some interesting things with their 3-3-5 which is where I think football might be going and Rodgers said the Panthers and their recently college coaches ran it and it confused him at times.


Looking around and seeing that defensive coaches were hired to be head coaches and lots of new DC filled, and not many great choices left...

I'm not sure there is a clear good DC choice from the NFL left... you're taking a gamble... if you know someone, then maybe. Right now, Joe Whitt Jr., and I'm not sure he's better than Pettine.

So then looking at college coaches, Georgia head coach is former Bama DC and he's had some good defenses, Ohio State is always well coaches especially their CBs but I think they just switched DC. Then there is Iowa State DC, who has gotten got with the 3-3-5... which the Packers will certainly need another stud DL to run it...


I think the smart choice is to stick with Pettine at least another season... if Broncos or Titans fire their head coaches then maybe talk to see if they're interested in the job.

UserPostedImage
Mucky Tundra
2021-01-27T09:40:35Z
Based on giving up the touchdown before halftime he should be. It's a failing of understanding the game situation and what needs to be accomplished. When GB turned the ball over near midfield and Tampa still had their timeouts, it's almost a given they'll get a FG. Giving up a TD in anyway is a disaster. Throw in other stuff like having trouble getting substitutions and MLF calling a timeout vs Jacksonville to change it from a 3 man rush to a 4 man rush, they probably need to move on. I don't think he's a bad DC but he's probably not going to help get them over the hump.

Originally Posted by: beast 

But Iowa State has done some interesting things with their 3-3-5 which is where I think football might be going and Rodgers said the Panthers and their recently college coaches ran it and it confused him at times.



I was kinda hoping they'd try some 3-3-5 stuff this year in pass situations. Preston-Z-Gary-Keke-Clark had some good pass rush juice to it.


“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
beast
2021-01-27T15:58:13Z
Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 


I was kinda hoping they'd try some 3-3-5 stuff this year in pass situations. Preston-Z-Gary-Keke-Clark had some good pass rush juice to it.



3-3-5 is fairly new and I'm sure not an expert on it, but I don't think we have the personnel for it...

It can be run on easily, unless you have really good DL, and Packers need more of that to start with without using the 3-3-5....

And what positions is Z. Smith and Gary in a 3-3-5? Are they small DL or heavy LB? I don't think you're about to drop them into coverage... so the offense knows they're coming.

But yeah, getting Gary and the Smiths in the field at the same time would be nice for pass rush situations. And Keke still has a ton to improve, but he's very athletic, and when the OL makes a mistake, he can capitalize on it.


UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
2021-01-27T23:30:53Z
RobDemovsky said that #Packers DC Mike Pettine’s contract is set to expire. Not sure if it was his choice but most coaches agree to rollovers each year so they’re always in 2-year deals. No word on his status. His exit interview was today.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
2021-01-28T03:15:38Z
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

RobDemovsky said that #Packers DC Mike Pettine’s contract is set to expire. Not sure if it was his choice but most coaches agree to rollovers each year so they’re always in 2-year deals. No word on his status. His exit interview was today.



If you ask me, the “rollover” was last Sunday in the NFC title game.
Hopefully they changed the locks after his “exit interview”. 🤪😂😂
UserPostedImage
Mucky Tundra
2021-01-28T05:07:31Z
Originally Posted by: beast 

3-3-5 is fairly new and I'm sure not an expert on it, but I don't think we have the personnel for it...

It can be run on easily, unless you have really good DL, and Packers need more of that to start with without using the 3-3-5....

And what positions is Z. Smith and Gary in a 3-3-5? Are they small DL or heavy LB? I don't think you're about to drop them into coverage... so the offense knows they're coming.

But yeah, getting Gary and the Smiths in the field at the same time would be nice for pass rush situations. And Keke still has a ton to improve, but he's very athletic, and when the OL makes a mistake, he can capitalize on it.



Yeah that's why I said I just liked the idea of using it in pass situations. Seems like you'd need a stud ILB with some serious covers skills to run it full time.
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
2021-01-28T16:22:40Z

wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
2021-01-28T16:25:00Z
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Packers Defense
Total Yards : 9th
Rushing Yards : 13th
Passing Yards : 7th
Points Against: 13th
Opponent Team Passer Rating : 12th
3rd Down PCT : 10th
Red Zone : 8th
Sacks/Pass Attempt : 8th
Goal To Go : 4th




The numbers are adequate but alone don't mean much. If the Reggie defense put up stats like this we would be freaking out. If the pitiful Jags team of this past season had them we would say the HC and DC are geniuses. 
All in all they did a decent job and were peaking at the end of the year. The run defense wasn't a sieve like last year although there were times when they lost the battle. I don't mind not bringing Pettine back if the front office feels they can improve. Just like they do with any players on the team.
This spot is reserved for future use
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
2021-01-28T16:26:34Z
Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

There were also free plays for 12 men on the field.

I'd be ok if he was replaced, but that's up to Matt. This defense does get stops when we need them, pretty often. Get some DTs. CBs who can hang onto INTs.

Would we want a young up and coming guy or an old hand who has experience? Pettine is experienced, seen it all.

I think Pettine has proven he's at least adequate against the run.



If they could hang on to the ball they would be WRs. 🤣

This spot is reserved for future use
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
2021-01-28T16:34:28Z
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

Were Kevin Kings screw ups because of where the coach told him to be? Or was that all on King? That’s a question I’d like to see the answer to. That would help me in deciding who to hold accountable.
The yanking of the Jersey, for all to see, that’s 100% on King. A high schooler knows not to do that.
You take a guy like Alexander, who shines on the field, and on the other side you have a guy like King that constantly misses making plays.
You need to cut King and get someone that has more talent to take his place. He’s too consistent in his screwing up.
Any QB that has half a brain will pick on him, as the obvious weak link. Which Brady did.

So....who gets held accountable? Was it “just” a lack of talent, or also coaching? I don’t think any of us know enough facts to decide.


No need to cut him. His contract is over. The question becomes do they re-sign him. (Probably not.) If not who do they replace him with? A high priced free agent is not in the budget. A lower priced FA is no better than he is and doesn't know the scheme so it will take time. A draft pick will take even more time to get to the place where he is better than King was this year. All options have drawbacks. There are only 3-4 CBs like Alexander in the league. Most are closer to King in ability. Some of his pluses are size and speed. That doesn't come around all the time.

This spot is reserved for future use
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
2021-01-28T16:35:31Z
Originally Posted by: macbob 

Personally, I like Pettine and the memories of all the years of defensive crapiness we had before he became our DC (going back to before Capers). I'm hoping Pettine comes back again and we're not having to start over from scratch on D.



They could do worse. Much worse.
This spot is reserved for future use
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
2021-01-28T16:49:16Z
Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 

This team is often one of the worst when it comes to paying the Defensive side of the ball. I think 2020 was the first time they were in the top 10 in a long time. It is hard to have a great D when all the salary cap is spent on O. Especially when you miss as often as we have on top Defensive draft picks.

Defense spending by cap
Year Rank #players Cap $ Average Cap %
2020 7 24 $78,183,236 $3,257,635 38.34%
2019 22 22 $53,619,373 $2,437,244 27.21%
2018 32 21 $26,876,613 $1,279,839 14.84%



GB has not invested much in terms of cap dollars on the defense but they have invested more in terms of draft capital in the 1st round Clark, Gary, Alexander and Savage. Offense only 2 (Rodgers and Love.)

This spot is reserved for future use
Users browsing this topic
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (22-Feb) : Not bad ---Alshon Jeffery expected to be released by Eagles once season starts
Zero2Cool (20-Feb) : @nflrums #Steelers expected to release CB Joe Haden saving the team 7M in cap space
Zero2Cool (19-Feb) : Sources say Wagner is contemplating retirement. The moves clear $10.25M in cap space.
Zero2Cool (18-Feb) : #Packers likely to part ways with Josh Jackson CB #Iowa #GreenBay #NFL
Zero2Cool (18-Feb) : Philadelphia has agreed to trade Carson Wentz to the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for a 2021 third-round pick and a conditional 2022 second-round pick that could turn into a first, league sources te
Zero2Cool (18-Feb) : The NFL in a memo to teams has said the salary cap floor has been increased from $175 million to $180 million after talks with the NFLPA.
Zero2Cool (17-Feb) : Richard Sherman: It’s been made pretty clear I won’t return to 49ers
Zero2Cool (17-Feb) : Graziano: #Broncos are “likely” to decline Von Miller’s $18M team option. That would make him an unrestricted free agent.
Mucky Tundra (16-Feb) : Thems are fighting words down South Zero! Well, when the snow and ice melts and they run out of bread and milk
Zero2Cool (15-Feb) : WINTER STORM WARNING... Yes. Bring it biotches
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : “Why go from $175 million for 2021 and then raise it to $220 million in 2022? That just doesn’t make any sense,” one NFL agent he said.
Zero2Cool (13-Feb) : @ProFootballTalk Report: Steelers, Browns, Titans, Bills have shown interest in J.J. Watt
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : JJ Watt asks for and is released by Texans. I bet he joins his brother.
packerfanoutwest (12-Feb) : Isn't that the title Capers has in Detroit?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Report: Mike Pettine joining Bears as senior defensive assistant
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : @MikeKlis Broncos are releasing CB A.J. Bouye per source. #9sports
Cheesey (10-Feb) : Yup, Mucky. Brady is “the chosen one”. He could knife a guy in the field, and they’d flag the other guy for bleeding!
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Zero, I wonder if Wisconsin promised him the HC at some point in the future
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : yeah Cheesey,I love how Brady ran 10+ yards and bumps into Mathieu helmet first the refs do nothing but when Mathieu turns to walk away and just points at Brady they instantly flag him
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Oates: Leonhard "dang near took the job"
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tell your friend registration is free. Register and ask.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : Was the SB fixed? asking for a friend
Cheesey (10-Feb) : Easy to be a “tough guy” when your defense is killing the other team.
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : I'm serious. Dude wants to crush people and apologize later. Kill!!!
Cheesey (9-Feb) : Yup Mucky! I agree! A killer D can make any QB look good.
Mucky Tundra (9-Feb) : Cheesey, Trent Dilfer could win a super with that team and probably had a higher completion percentage against Wash and NO and no floating passes
Mucky Tundra (9-Feb) : Zero, I cant tell if you're being sarcastic, serious or both lol
Cheesey (9-Feb) : If Rodgers has Tampa’s defense, he would win SBs too.
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : I believe that. I love the guys fire and killer instinct. Wish we had a QB with that.
Mucky Tundra (9-Feb) : Zero, Brady just wants it more than the next guy
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : Former NFL coach Marty Schottenheimer has passed away,
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : The defense is because of Brady. That's how amazing great he is.
Mucky Tundra (9-Feb) : The Patriots and Bucs D allowed 0 TDs in their last two super bowl victories. unreal
Mucky Tundra (9-Feb) : and it just looked a little funky to anyone since they took away stops from the Chiefs D and Tampa scored TDs off the drives
Mucky Tundra (9-Feb) : Zero, the penalties were a little iffy and compared to what was going on when GB played Tampa absolutely nothing. Throw in the timing of them (bailed Tampa out of INT and a failed 3rd down conversion)
Zero2Cool (8-Feb) : The #Cardinals and long-time Pro Bowl CB Patrick Peterson are parting ways, per @MattVerderame
Zero2Cool (8-Feb) : It was funny reading comments. Brady is amazing! I look at scoreboard, 9 points? Brady did that? lol
Zero2Cool (8-Feb) : I remembered it and started following in Twitter. Seems the officials were thinking the game was bout them
yooperfan (8-Feb) : Just another fixed game by the NFL. The officiating decided another game. I’m sick of it.🤬
Cheesey (8-Feb) : Mahomes has to run for his life all game.
Mucky Tundra (8-Feb) : Zero, I was watching it closely until the Fournette TD in the 3rd. Was hoping Mahomes would put on a show
Cheesey (8-Feb) : I didn’t care who won. Besides, I don’t have “Hulu”! 😂
packerfanoutwest (8-Feb) : Fuck Brady and the refs
Zero2Cool (8-Feb) : No shame in it. Just have no interest in it. Deadliest Decade 90s got me all day.
Zero2Cool (8-Feb) : Lol you guys watching the Super Bowl. Hulu for this guy. 😊
Cheesey (8-Feb) : Imagine what the Packers could do with that defense???
Cheesey (8-Feb) : Tampa’s defense should be MVP.
Cheesey (8-Feb) : To me, the commercials sucked too.
Mucky Tundra (8-Feb) : It's a look that says "even if I can make it close, the refs will put their thumb on the scale"
Cheesey (8-Feb) : Mahomes has the same look on his face thatRodgers had.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2020 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 13 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Sep 20 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Sep 27 @ 7:20 PM
Saints
Monday, Oct 5 @ 8:00 PM
FALCONS
Sunday, Oct 18 @ 3:25 PM
Buccaneers
Sunday, Oct 25 @ 12:00 PM
Texans
Sunday, Nov 1 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 5 @ 7:20 PM
49ers
Sunday, Nov 15 @ 12:00 PM
JAGUARS
Sunday, Nov 22 @ 3:25 PM
Colts
Sunday, Nov 29 @ 7:20 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 6 @ 3:25 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Dec 13 @ 3:25 PM
Lions
Saturday, Dec 19 @ 7:15 PM
PANTHERS
Sunday, Dec 27 @ 7:20 PM
TITANS
Sunday, Jan 3 @ 3:25 PM
Bears
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

22-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

22-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

21-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

21-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19-Feb / Around The NFL / Cheesey

19-Feb / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

18-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

17-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

16-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

15-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2021 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.