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Offline dfosterf  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 10:15:00 AM(UTC)
dfosterf

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The dead pool.

I have repeatedly stated in several threads that some, if not all, salary cap pronouncements out there on the internet are inaccurate and incomplete. I have e-mailed the GBP Gazette newspaper requesting that they do an article on the cap, to no avail. I think they prefer reporting on what went wrong, but thats just me.

One of the (many) difficulties in discerning what the status of the cap might be has to do with the expiration of dead money commitments. This is the product of pro-rated-signing bonuses to players that are no longer with the team. I am going to list those former players that we paid in 2008. What I am looking for is a DEFINITIVE answer as to when a certain player falls out of the dead money pool. The ideal answer to this question will contain a link and/or a detailed explanation of how the answer was derived.

I will give an example as to just how complicated this question can become. Most already know that we have been, and continue to be, obligated to take a 1.4 million dollar cap hit in pro-rated signing bonus for Brett Favre, through 2010. What got lost in the whole trade deal is that the Jets renegotiated the contract. Andrew Brandt had put in some appearance clauses (Jets removed them), and a clause that Brett would have to pay back any pro-rata portion of his bonus (Jets removed that also). Frankly, I dont see how they can do that, but that is a whole other story.

http://www.nationalfootb...oney-different-contract/

Before I do the list, (it is extensive), I would appreciate any commentary/suggestion on where to find my answer(s)
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:33:15 AM(UTC)
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I guess there are a couple scenerios for dead money. Players cut prior to June 1. These players have all of their SB accelerated to that current year. After June 1 the cap is split between the current and the next year.

Look at KGB. He had 1 year remaining on his contract. So in 09' GB will be charged about 1.4 million for him.

Now if say Jenkins was cut this year his cap penalty would be like this.

before June 1- GB would eat the remainder of his SB in 09' Or about 2.1 million.
released after June 1 - his remaining SB would be spread over 09' & 2010 at 1.05 million each year.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline dfosterf  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:53:26 AM(UTC)
dfosterf

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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I guess there are a couple scenerios for dead money. Players cut prior to June 1. These players have all of their SB accelerated to that current year. After June 1 the cap is split between the current and the next year.

Look at KGB. He had 1 year remaining on his contract. So in 09' GB will be charged about 1.4 million for him.

Now if say Jenkins was cut this year his cap penalty would be like this.

before June 1- GB would eat the remainder of his SB in 09' Or about 2.1 million.
released after June 1 - his remaining SB would be spread over 09' & 2010 at 1.05 million each year.


This is the "year before" the "uncapped year". The "ability" to accelerate signing bonuses of players cut prior to June 1 is now gone, per the CBA. These issues were specifically negotiated in the CBA. Also, the ability to do so is HUGELY different than actually doing so. In other words, to assume that occurs is not correct, to the best of my knowledge.

We took an enormous cap hit on players most of us have forgotten even played for this team...
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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline Megatron  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:47:19 PM(UTC)
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Here's a link to all the players salaries.

http://www.jsonline.com/...ts/packers/34427129.html

If look at the top, you see names like Harris, KGB, Tauscher and Clifton as one of the highest earning players at the club. One has gone, there is a good chance that at least 1 more of these guys will be gone too.

We would actually be increasing our salary cap!!! This will give us the flexibility to increase other players contracts like Jennings and even bring in a free agent.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:26:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I guess there are a couple scenerios for dead money. Players cut prior to June 1. These players have all of their SB accelerated to that current year. After June 1 the cap is split between the current and the next year.

Look at KGB. He had 1 year remaining on his contract. So in 09' GB will be charged about 1.4 million for him.

Now if say Jenkins was cut this year his cap penalty would be like this.

before June 1- GB would eat the remainder of his SB in 09' Or about 2.1 million.
released after June 1 - his remaining SB would be spread over 09' & 2010 at 1.05 million each year.


This is the "year before" the "uncapped year". The "ability" to accelerate signing bonuses of players cut prior to June 1 is now gone, per the CBA. These issues were specifically negotiated in the CBA. Also, the ability to do so is HUGELY different than actually doing so. In other words, to assume that occurs is not correct, to the best of my knowledge.

We took an enormous cap hit on players most of us have forgotten even played for this team...


I was just using that as an example. Yeah everything will be different unless a new CBA is figured out soon. And since there is still not a replacement for Gene, I don't expect that soon.

That is also a nice thing since Thompson has been around. He structures contracts very well so there is no big penalty for cutting most players.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline dfosterf  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:11:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Here's a link to all the players salaries.

http://www.jsonline.com/...ts/packers/34427129.html

If look at the top, you see names like Harris, KGB, Tauscher and Clifton as one of the highest earning players at the club. One has gone, there is a good chance that at least 1 more of these guys will be gone too.

We would actually be increasing our salary cap!!! This will give us the flexibility to increase other players contracts like Jennings and even bring in a free agent.


That link was the starting point for the online "capologist" that gave the following figures for 2008.

The "List"

Dead Money 2008


Brett Favre 1,400,000. PRSB
Gbaja-Biamila 6,150,000 Base 1,571,429 PRSB 5,571 LTBE (probably included in carryover)
Bubba Franks 2,000,000 PRSB
Marquand Manuel 900,000 PRSB
Tracy White 705,000 Base 125,000 PRSB (base is definitely gone) 30,000 LTBE
Robert Ferguson 700,000 PRSB
Abdul Hodge 202,000 PRSB
David Clowney 127,500 PRSB
Marviel Underwood 107,500 PRSB
Ingle Martin 86,0000 PRSB
Clark Harris 30,656 PRSB
Tyrone Culver 23,375 PRSB
Jon Ryan 11,667 PRSB 5,000 LTBE
Joey Haynos 250 PRSB 15,600 LTBE
Brett Swain 14,403 PRSB (Complicated, hes on the Reserve/future squad now)
DeShawn Wynn 12,727 PRSB
Daniel Muir 7,500 PRSB
Ryan Powdrell 7,500 PRSB
Tony Palmer 6,720 LTBE
Chris Patrick 6,720 LTBE
Cliff Washburn 6,720 LTBE
Jerry Babb 6,720 LTBE
Ryan Dougherty 6,720 LTBE
Noah Herron 6,720 LTBE
Alfred Malone 6,720 LTBE
Chris Francies 6,720 LTBE
Spencer Havner 6,720 LTBE
Joe Porter 6,720 LTBE
Johnny Quinn 6,720 LTBE
Corey White 6,720 LTBE
Mike Peterson 6,000 PRSB
Pat Murray 4,000 PRSB
Larry Birdine 3,750 PRSB
Danny Lansanah 2,500 PRSB
Jake Allen 1,500 PRSB
Taj Smith 1,500 PRSB
Juwan Simpson 1,250 PRSB
Rory Johnson 1,250 PRSB
Jerry Babb 1,000 PRSB
Paul Thompson 1,000 PRSB
Brennan Carvalho 750 PRSB
Rod Harper 750 PRSB
Marcus Riley 750 PRSB
Cory White 250 PRSB
Ryan Considine 333 PRSB

Some terribly interesting cap hits:
Rudolph Hardie 10,400 Base
Junius Coston 242,083 Base 43,200 PRSB 5,280 LTBE
Cullen Jenkins 2,000,000 Base 1,000,000 PRSB 450,000 LTBE (Carry over)
Kregg Lumpkin 295,000 Base 2,000 PRSB
JJ Jansen 1,250 PRSB 200,000 LTBE
Rodney Allen 200,000 LTBE
Evan Moore 200,000 LTBE
Shaun Bodiford 235,880 LTBE

...And Megatron, what you said about the big "cap hit" guys that may be gone is dead on. This is one of the reasons I asked the GBPG to do some reporting on the issue. It amazes me that this is so important to the fans, yet gets so poorly reported by the mainstream media. I suspect there are several reasons for it...team/media relations, etc. I also feel like they just don't want to:

A Do the work
B Get it wrong
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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline Since69  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 12:41:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
That is also a nice thing since Thompson has been around. He structures contracts very well so there is no big penalty for cutting most players.


That's a side-effect of him being so "cheap". When a team isn't in cap hell they can front-load a contract, rather than putting most of the pay off until later.

That's where most of your dead money comes from.
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Offline LambeauEast  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:08:17 PM(UTC)
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Silly me, I thought this was a true "dead pool". I'll take Larry King.
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