Greg C.
14 years ago

No matter which site I am posting on, we have this thread every year in the days leading up to training camp. Then the first round pick signs within a couple days of the beginning of camp and everyone forgets about it. I'm not going to waste any energy worrying about this unless we get into a genuine holdout situation, which from what I've heard, does not appear to be likely this year.

"pack93z" wrote:



Agreed, this is one the my hopes for the CBA negotiations.. that this whole process is organized and these aren't issues going forward.

"Greg C." wrote:



I do agree with you that the process is kind of stupid. I think that is really the entire issue here, rather than how the Packers or any other team handles the current system. It's set up in such a way that it almost always comes right down to the wire. It leads to a lot of unnecessary hand-wringing all-around, and a bumpy start for the NFL careers of some players. It would be good if they could fix this, maybe at the same time they fix these ridiculous rookie salaries.
blank
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I gave up on this thread about a quarter way through page 2. It seems to be nothing more than pointless carping stemming from offseason boredom. We go through the exact same shit every single year; the only way to worry about it is to force yourself to worry about it, simply because there's nothing else on the table at the moment. If we have nothing better to discuss, maybe we need to take a hiatus from talking football for a while.

And yes, this is easy for me to say since I am on a forced hiatus of my own lately. 😉
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dfosterf
14 years ago
There are some small advantages to paying attention to the process this time of year.

You can learn some of the machinations that occur, as folks that actually know what happens in these proceedings take the time and trouble to write about it, as this is the only time of the year that folks--as I said-- will pay attention (well, some of us, anyway) to the subject.

Here is one we all probably suspected, but I don't recall ever reading about it in this much detail before...

NFP- The Head Coach as agent 

The head coach as agent

If they have the power, can get a deal done. Jack Bechta


In 2003, I was talking to another well-known agent when he suddenly took a call from a first-year head coach. The conversation went something like this:

Head coach: Where is my first-round pick?

Agent: Your owners are dragging their feet. I dont think youll have him signed in time for camp. You may want to let them know how badly you need him or he may not be signed until late August.

The agent went on to play victim to the coach, who was motivated to make sure he had all his weapons for his inaugural season.

When the agent hung up the phone, he looked at me with a smile and said, The owners are scared to death of this guy and will give him anything he wants.

Basically, what the agent was doing was recruiting the coach to apply pressure to ownership to get the deal done. Believe it or not, this happens more frequently than most people realize.

The agent and coaching communities are growing closer all the time. Many player agents, large and small, are also representing a lot of head coaches throughout the NFL. Can you say conflict?

Maybe, maybe not. Its not uncommon to see the icons of the NFL throwing em back with top agents at the Combine or the Senior Bowl. As head coaches become more involved with front office decision-making, they can play important roles in getting deals done on time.

If the head coach absolutely needs his draft pick to contribute right away, he will want to be kept in the loop regarding negotiations.

Sometimes, he works through the media by saying, Player X is missing valuable time. Hes falling behind and will have a tough time winning a job.

This usually prompts a panicked call from the player or his family to the agent to please get the deal done. The agent then calms the player and/or the family and explains that the head coach doesnt always care about the business side of things and just wants his players in camp.

Twenty years ago, it wasnt uncommon for head coaches to call rookies directly and tell them they better tell their agent to get the freaking deal done.

I once had the Patriots Bill Parcells call me and my player, Todd Rucci, a second-round pick, and try to intimidate us to get a deal done.

I stood up to him, telling him never to call my client until the contract was done, and asked him to hear me out on the issues. Ten minutes later, Bill opened up to me and actually told me he that he had inherited the teams negotiator, didnt like him and that he would probably be gone by the end of the year.

After I hung up with Bill, an angry Patrick Forte, the Pats negotiator, called me and reluctantly gave me what I needed to get my client into camp. Like Bill said, he was eventually let go.

An NFL head coach can sometimes be the best agent for a player. If he surreptitiously leans on the GM and owner to get his player into camp on time, the front office and ownership will do whatever it takes to get the player signed.

On the contrary, if the head coach doesnt need the player to contribute right away, the front office may take advantage of this and try to save ownership some money. The result: leverage for the team and an extended negotiation late into camp. A three-week impasse may save the owner $3 million.

With the competition among mega-agencies for first-round picks, different priorities and philosophies within a team, the amount of money at stake and the media attention in todays information society, the young, hungry rookie may be a victim of some invisible politics of window dressing, power and money none of which he knows or cares anything about.

Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

There are some small advantages to paying attention to the process this time of year.

You can learn some of the machinations that occur,

"dfosterf" wrote:



I like this. You always have a great perspective on things, whether I agree with you or not.
UserPostedImage
dhazer
14 years ago

Fresh from twitter by Mr. Bedard himself.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/52082382.html 

"pack93z" wrote:



With one day to spare.. nothing like waiting til the last freaking minute.

"DakotaT" wrote:




Please stop, as I read your comments I hear my wife's whine voice. :icon_smile:

"pack93z" wrote:



LOL... my goal here is to speak of it until it is resolved.. no more comments such as that.. ;)

I wanted to play Hazer for a day.. :lol:

"Rockmolder" wrote:




Your a Rodgers hater and a Favre fister and your not even a Packer fan :p



i liked some of these comments from the twitter page



Punko25
Report abuse
Thursday Jul 30, 2009 12:08 PM

"...on a new contract..."

Did he ever have a previous contract?!!!


duffer58
Report abuse
Thursday Jul 30, 2009 12:13 PM

Yes USC pays more then Packers.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago

Fresh from twitter by Mr. Bedard himself.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/52082382.html 

"dhazer" wrote:



With one day to spare.. nothing like waiting til the last freaking minute.

"pack93z" wrote:




Please stop, as I read your comments I hear my wife's whine voice. :icon_smile:

"DakotaT" wrote:



LOL... my goal here is to speak of it until it is resolved.. no more comments such as that.. ;)

I wanted to play Hazer for a day.. :lol:

"pack93z" wrote:




Your a Rodgers hater and a Favre fister and your not even a Packer fan :p

"Rockmolder" wrote:



I have to give you a +1 for your sense of humor. Well done young man.
UserPostedImage
bozz_2006
14 years ago
Favre fister, indeed.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Just be sure to trot out the silicon-based lubricant before indulging your peculiar predilection, boys.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
Is it in the agents best interest to wait?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=4303428 

So why the sudden draft signing bounty?

A few possible reasons, gleaned from discussions with a veteran NFLPA official, several agents and team negotiators, and a few rookies:

It's the economy, stupid: It's usually a long stretch between the time that players are drafted and when they receive their first signing-bonus checks. Because they are financially squeezed more than ever by the recession, many players prefer to cash their signing bonus checks now rather than wait a month or two for them. Even "Mr. Irrelevant," the final choice in the draft, kicker Ryan Succop (Kansas City), received a signing bonus of $25,250.

Agents of change: Many agents arrange for their clients to receive a line of credit or a straight loan from a bank, to tide the player over until his first NFL contract is consummated. Taking the money early allows those agents to collect their commission fees and to repay the banks sooner. And the "recruiting" of prospective clients for the following year's draft seems to begin earlier every year, so agents already have expenses.

Slot machine: The value of a player's contract, particularly the signing bonus, is often determined by "slotting." That's a longtime system that pays a player depending on the round in which he is chosen and his relative position in that stanza. Of the 84 contracts examined so far by ESPN.com, there wasn't a single deal "out of slot." As rounds begin to fill in with signings, slotting definitely takes over. Why not take the money now, at present-day value, if you're going to be slotted anyway?

Cap-ital idea: Without an extension to the collective-bargaining agreement, there will be no salary cap in 2010, and many owners are already attempting to determine some of their expenses for that year. Signing a draft pick before July allows owners to quickly lock in the player's contract for the future. Only a few franchises, notably Pittsburgh and Arizona, have signed their middle- and late-round choices to three-year contracts. In a trend that started about three years ago, most of the clubs are signing even late-round picks to four-year deals.

Clearing the decks: Negotiations for first-round contracts are typically time-consuming and often acrimonious. Signing even late-round players early allows a team negotiator more time to devote to first-round deals.

Sooner rather than later:
Coaches increasingly want their draft choices in camp on time, and, if possible, prefer their participation in the team's offseason program. Team negotiators are trying harder than ever to fulfill their coach's desires because rookies often fit into a team's playing-time equation.



And to say that the teams have little control over the process, one of the better run teams in the league, the Steelers have had only one player late for camp in the last decade.. Big Ben in 04'... but yet the teams are at the mercy of the agents?

The Bears have a reputation for getting deals done..

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-12-39/No-rookie-holdouts-looming-in-Chicago.html 

After Len Pasquarelli's excellent column last week, there should be no surprise that Chicago became the first NFL team to sign its entire nine-man draft class Wednesday. The Bears' pair of third-round picks, defensive lineman Jarron Gilbert and receiver Juaquin Iglesias, both signed four-year contracts.

As Pasquarelli pointed out, Bears contract negotiator Cliff Stein typically makes quick work of signing rookie players. The Bears prefer not to have negotiations hanging over them as training camp approaches, and Stein is willing to make deals before the larger market materializes.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago

Is the sky falling yet?

Seriously, nobody will forget to play football if they're not there by Day one or two or three and so on. The best thing for both sides is to get a deal done that both sides like and not rush a deal. If you rush it, then you have to deal with an unhappy player three years from now.

Matthews signed today and Raji will likely sign within the next week if not sooner. I don't see a problem with Russ Ball's negotiation tactics nor do I see a problem with Raji's actions throughout this.

There is no problem. Not yet anyway and I personally don't see a problem occuring anytime soon.

"porky88" wrote:



While we are not probably going to push this window, to say that missing a week is no big deal, Gil disagrees.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-07-27/holdout-how-wreck-rookie-season 

"Any player who misses more than three days of camp is taking a serious risk," said Gil Brandt, long-time personnel director for the Cowboys who now is an analyst with NFL.com. "What rookies see at OTAs and minicamps doesn't compare to what they see at training camp. Everything is accelerated 100 percent.

"Historically, rookie holdouts have a hard time playing well and they often suffer injuries after they show up."

With camps opening around the league and dozens of top draft picks still unsigned, here is a look at the top seven unsigned rookies who least can afford a lengthy holdout:

B.J. Raji, NT, Packers. This is another team switching to a 3-4 scheme. They want to plug in Raji as a run stopper at nose tackle. Green Bay's offense looks potent on paper, but their run defense was shredded like paper last season, ranking 26th in the league.

Will Raji make a difference? It very well could depend on when he reports to training camp.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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earthquake (1-May) : Packers draft starters at safety ever few years. Collins, Clinton-Dix, Savage
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Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : could*
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Safeties should learn from Xavier.
dhazer (29-Apr) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left
dhazer (29-Apr) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : I miss having Sam Shields.
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Not that he's making excuses, just pointing it out
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packerfanoutwest (28-Apr) : having a great long snapper is gold
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Thanks Mucky and whomever created topcos for each pick!
Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : Insane about Kingsley
dfosterf (28-Apr) : Putring it here so Mucky sees it. He was our guy!
dfosterf (28-Apr) : Bowden long snapper Wisconsin. Consensus best LS in college.
dfosterf (28-Apr) : We got Peter Bowde
dfosterf (28-Apr) : I personally interpret that as a partial tear that can be recovered from with rehab
dfosterf (28-Apr) : MLF said Kingsley Enagbare did NOT tear his ACL and did NOT require surgery, and that he is "looking good" for the 2024 season!
beast (28-Apr) : T.O. son signs with the 49ers
Mucky Tundra (28-Apr) : damn those vikings
beast (27-Apr) : UDFA Vikings sign TE – Trey Knox, South Carolina
beast (27-Apr) : Kitchen was all high from Miami, he was more lucky than talented in 2022 and it showed in 2023
beast (27-Apr) : Reportedly Packers have UDFAs Jennings and Jones
beast (27-Apr) : OL – Donovan Jennings, USF OT – Trente Jones, Michigan
TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : Interesting draft. A bit shocked that we didn't select an early CB. Definitely have Safety help. Pretty happy overall.
dhazer (27-Apr) : wow the last 2 picks are really stupid and probably will be special teams players Top 10 draft pick next year book it
TheKanataThrilla (27-Apr) : I think he ended up with a terrible RAS score
dhazer (27-Apr) : Anyone know what went on with Kitchens from Florida? At 1 point he was to be the Packers 1st round and he is way down the board now
Martha Careful (27-Apr) : Z, could you please combine my thread with yours please. I obviously did not see it when I Created it
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Re: 'Kool-Aid' McKinstry. Other than Icky Woods, has there ever been a good NFLer with a childish nickname?
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Packers looking to trade up
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