beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago


Being a sports fan today can feel like floating adrift in a vast sea of statistics. So let’s remember one of the most fundamental pillars of numerical analysis: Correlation is not causation. 

Put simply, this means that a relationship between two actions or conditions does not necessarily mean that one causes the other. If you get a sunburn eating an ice cream cone 95 out of 100 times, it does not follow that you got a sunburn because you ate ice cream. 

Here’s a more relevant example: In the past 10 Super Bowls, at least one team had an elite tight end in seven of them. And in four out of the last five. In three of the last four, *both* teams had top tight ends. We all saw what Travis Kelce and Dallas Goedert did last month.

Does this mean that having an elite tight end is the reason teams get to the dance? No, but correlation matters. And when it comes to modern offenses in football, having a difference-making tight end helps more than is often acknowledged. Even in a sport awash in number crunching, the position is undervalued, and the Packers should draft one in the first round this year no matter how many picks they end up with. Here’s why:

The position is a force mulitiplier  — Assigning low positional value to tight ends makes sense if you look at individual production in isolation. But top receiving tight ends open up opportunities for wideouts AND the run game. They stress the defense by enabling more schematic options, especially in the middle of the field. Tight ends that also block well are doubly dangerous, helping to spring running backs and assisting in pass protection. Other positions are force multipliers, too, but tight ends never seem to get the credit. 

Physically, top tight ends force mismatches that require defenses to have specialized DBs or linebackers. Essentially, the defense has to play in nickel, which is the new base for most teams. And those defenders have to have size and speed. Without them, it’s easy pickings for diversified offenses.

Elite tight ends are scarce — Unlike running backs and wideouts, top tier tight ends are a rare commodity. Finding a Kelce, Gronk or Kittle is like winning the lottery. Which is also true for quarterbacks, and look how valuable they are. I am not saying TEs are as important as QBs, just pointing out that when you have scarcity, the value should be higher than it otherwise would be, a market inefficiency that creates opportunity. Here’s a thought experiment: If you could have either Travis Kelce or Tyreek Hill today, which one would you choose? We know which one the Chiefs chose. The Super Bowl champion chiefs. 

Remember, too, that there are tight ends just a notch below the superstars who have significant impact, such as Darren Waller, Mark Andrews, Goedert, T.J. Hockenson  and Kyle Pitts. The Rams did fairly well with Tyler Higbee. 

The price is right — As mentioned, you pay a lot less for top tight ends than wideouts. For as long as that lasts, that’s a boon for roster building, allowing more spending for other key positions. It’s the MoneyBall strategy. One of the reasons running backs have lower value is their lack of longevity. We’ve seen little evidence of the same problem with tight ends. 

The Packers have been suffering the loss of Jermichael Finley ever since his career-ending injury. This year’s draft offers a unique chance to finally solve the problem. The class is deep, with a couple of potentially elite prospects that the Packers can get with their current draft position. And a few others are a notch below. But this is not a time to get cute, which the Packers sometimes do, and pass up a likely difference-maker on the assumption that they can get someone just slightly less worthy in a later round. And then they find themselves paying to move up for the guy that they like and need to snag before someone else does. But who isn’t as good as the top prospect.

Would I be making this argument if Green Bay had a top 5 pick? Or if a legitimate top 5 talent falls to them at 15?  No, but those are nearly impossible scenarios. Meanwhile, the wideout class is thin, and the Packers have two solid, developing starters. Adding a WR3 at the top of the draft should not be a higher priority than tight end. 

Based on their size/speed and skill sets, the two top TE candidates are Michael Mayer of Penn State and Dalton Kincaid of Utah. Mayer had a weak combine, so Kincaid might be the clear top prospect who fits Green Bay, but regardless, the Packers should grab one of them, because they won’t be around later. And if it were me, I’d either bring back Robert Tonyan (he was still not 100% this past season) or take one of the lesser but decent prospects later in the draft. (Sleeper: Zack Kuntz,  Old Dominion.) Two tight-end sets are highly effective, and you never know when you might strike gold in a later round. It would hardly be the first time the Packers take multiple swings at a position in the same draft. 

This is obviously an easier call if the Packers add a first-round pick via trade. Even if they don’t, tight end should be the pick in round 1. This market inefficiency won’t last forever. 

Continue Reading @ CheeseheadTV 

CheeseheadTV wrote:




Should the Packers draft a TE in the first round?
UserPostedImage
a year ago

Should the Packers draft a TE in the first round?

Yes…the guy from Notre Dame…he blocks and is a strong receiving threat
Go Packers!!!!
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago

Yes…the guy from Notre Dame…he blocks and is a strong receiving threat

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 

I've been thinking the TE Washington from Georgia is Gute's dream TE.

TE Lewis sized, but more a hell lot faster (and I'm talking about at their combines so when Lewis was young and had young legs, Lewis ran a 4.84 while Washington ran a 4.64... to try to compare, Lazard ran a 4.56. and Tonyan, then as a heavy WR rana 4.58 before later putting weight on to become a TE).

So Tonyan like speed in Lewis like frame.

Though Washington has absolutely amazing potential, he's not fully developed in any aspect, but Gute seems to love upside potential and puts it on coaches and players to get there.
​​​​​​
 
UserPostedImage
a year ago

I've been thinking the TE Washington from Georgia is Gute's dream TE.

TE Lewis sized, but more a hell lot faster (and I'm talking about at their combines so when Lewis was young and had young legs, Lewis ran a 4.84 while Washington ran a 4.64... to try to compare, Lazard ran a 4.56. and Tonyan, then as a heavy WR rana 4.58 before later putting weight on to become a TE).

So Tonyan like speed in Lewis like frame.

Though Washington has absolutely amazing potential, he's not fully developed in any aspect, but Gute seems to love upside potential and puts it on coaches and players to get there.​​​​ 

Originally Posted by: beast 

The problem is that sometimes straight-line speed does not translate to getting open.   I will bet there are lots of tight ends faster than Kittle and Kelsy, but they are not shifty i.e. the they don't change directions with ease and have to slowdown.

Having said that, we could alot worse.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a year ago
Can't remember who it was, but they said (Jordan Schultz, that's who) said TE's are probably gonna be slim on the free agency because he's hearing the draft is deep at TE.
UserPostedImage
Mucky Tundra
a year ago
I'm not a fan of a TE in round 1 but I'm all for one in round 2 and beyond. I think Gute will double dip at the position with a more polished one early with a project on day 3. I'd imagine that they'll either bring back Tonyan on a reasonable deal or try to get a vet after the draft. 
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
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Martha Careful (27-Apr) : Z, could you please combine my thread with yours please. I obviously did not see it when I Created it
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beast (26-Apr) : Family? That's Deadpool's F word
Nonstopdrivel (26-Apr) : Not THAT f-word.
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : fuck
beast (25-Apr) : 49ers are Cap Tight
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Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : Kanata, I will be when I'm on my lunch later
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Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : whoa...49ers have had trade conversations about both Deebo Samuel and Brandon Aiyuk
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Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : I may end up eating those words but I think they need a lot more talent then their 4 picks can provide
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : I really hope they stand pat and Draft a WR
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : @DMRussini
Mucky Tundra (25-Apr) : The Chicago Bears are very open for business at 9 and telling teams they are ready to move for the right price, per source
buckeyepackfan (24-Apr) : Lions extend Penei Soul 4yrs - 112mil
buckeyepackfan (24-Apr) : Lions extend St. Brown 4 years 120mil and
Mucky Tundra (24-Apr) : Now look, trading up to 13 to take a TE might not seem like a good idea later but it will be later!
dfosterf (24-Apr) : (Your trade up mock post)
dfosterf (24-Apr) : Mucky- The only thing fun to watch would be me flipping the f out if Gute goes up to 13 and grabs Brock Bowers, lol
beast (24-Apr) : DT Byron Murphy II, Texas... whom some believe is the next Aaron Donald (or the closest thing to Donald)
Zero2Cool (24-Apr) : What? And who?
Mucky Tundra (24-Apr) : *sad Mucky noises*
Mucky Tundra (24-Apr) : @JoeJHoyt Murphy said he’s been told he won’t slide past pick No. 16.
wpr (23-Apr) : Just about time to watch Sonny Weaver stick it to the seahags. I never get tired of it.
Martha Careful (23-Apr) : *game plan
Martha Careful (23-Apr) : IMHO, not even close. He is not a guy you game play around.
Mucky Tundra (23-Apr) : is Aiyuk worth a 1st rounder?
Zero2Cool (23-Apr) : 49ers are seeking a 1st round pick in exchange for WR Brandon Aiyuk
Mucky Tundra (22-Apr) : Based on Gutes comments, now I don't feel as silly having 13 picks in my mock the other day
Zero2Cool (22-Apr) : Zach Wilson to Broncos.
Zero2Cool (22-Apr) : Gutekunst says he'd love to have 13 or 14 picks. He's trading back huh lol
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