Senate approves indefinite detention and torture of Americans· Page 3

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

Oh, I know where you stand. Just when you posted your comments, you did so in a slanted manner and those who DON'T know where you stand would assume you're on the far left.

Not sure who you and ZS mean by neo-cons, but I consider myself a moderate to strong conservative and a Tea Party idealist and I would never pass this bill.

BTW, isn't Ronny Paul a republican? =)

Originally Posted by: Formo

Ron Paul is the ONLY conservative Republican in power today. The Neo-Cons are pretty far from Conservatives. Barry Goldwater, a true conservative, hated the Neo-Cons just as much as NSD and I do.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#22

Ron Paul is a Republican for the sake of expediency (he says third-party candidates can't win), but he sure isn't a conservative. He is a libertarian through and through.

Formo
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#23

Detlev, I felt far freer in Germany than I ever do in America. It certainly is ironic that for all their frothing at the mouth against socialism, conservatives are much quicker to deny basic, everyday freedoms than socialists are.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel

Quantify this statement for me; conservatives or self proclaimed conservatives?

The only 'everyday freedom' I, as a conservative, would deny is abortion. But in my view, that's not a right (first words on our Constitution that we are endowed are "LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit...").

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#24

(first words on our Constitution that we are endowed are "LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit...").

Originally Posted by: Formo

As much as I agree with that sentiment, and as noble as those words are, that phrase does not in fact appear in the Constitution.
[oops2]

Formo
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#25

As much as I agree with that sentiment, and as noble as those words are, that phrase does not in fact appear in the Constitution.
[oops2]

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel

Correct, my mistake. My dyslexia confused the Constitution with the Declaration.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#26

Just giving you a wee bit of shite, my friend.[boxing]

Wade
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#27

Correct, my mistake. My dyslexia confused the Constitution with the Declaration.

Originally Posted by: Formo

Which, of course, is the more important of the two documents. The Declaration, that is.

IMO.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Formo
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#28

Just giving you a wee bit of shite, my friend.[boxing]

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel

lol All's fair. As soon as I read your post I knew exactly what I did wrong. For some reason, I mix the information between the two up semi-frequently, so when someone points out my mistake I'm fairly quick to correct myself.

And I'd have to agree with Wade as well, although I do think the Constitution is important as well.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

#29

And I'd have to agree with Wade as well, although I do think the Constitution is important as well.

Originally Posted by: Formo

That's good you think the Constitution is important. Apparently neither the Democrats nor the Republicans do.

NSD - While we're arguing semantics, Ron Paul is a social libertarian and economic conservative. Same as me.

Formo - Although I respect your differences on abortion, while wannabe beauty queens talk about world peace, I long for the days when the global population was 1 billion. There are too many people, and especially too many people who can neither feed themselves nor contribute anything positive to this once beautiful planet. The absolute last thing this planet needs are more people who are neither wanted nor can be fed.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

#30

Apparently President Obama never did in fact threaten to veto this bill, and in fact it was the Obama Administration that requested that verbiage exempting American citizens from the provisions of this bill be removed!

A clip direct from C-SPAN:

- The bill passed by Congress absolutely DOES NOT exempt citizens. Section 1031 reads, "A covered person under this section" includes "any person who has committed a belligerent act". We only have to be ACCUSED, because we don't get a trial.

- Confusingly, Obama threatened a veto for 1032, but NOT 1031. 1032 is UNRELATED to imprisoning citizens without a trial. Obama has never suggested using a veto to stop Section 1031 citizen imprisonment. In fact, applying Section 1031 to citizens was requested by the Obama administration: See the video proof here.

- The Feinstein Amendment 1031(e) is dangerously misleading. Don't be fooled: In the text of 1031(e), "Nothing in this section shall be construed...", the only word that matters is "construed" -- the Supreme Court are the only ones with the power to construe the law. The Feinstein Amendment 1031(e) permits citizens to be imprisoned without evidence or a trial forever, if the Supreme Court does not EXPLICITLY repeal 1031.

- Any time you hear the words, "requirement for military custody" this refers to 1032 NOT 1031. We MUST not confuse these two sections. In its statements, the Obama administration has actually contributed to the confusion about 1032's "requirement for military custody", which is COMPLETEY UNRELATED to Section 1031 citizen imprisonment without trial. These tricky, misleading words appear even in major news stories. Don't fall for it!

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-ndaa-section-1031-citizen-imprisonment-law-today

Too bad that online petitions have no standing whatsoever before the law.

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