So'Oto to Play 2011: Debut Against Minny· Page 2

Dexter_Sinister
Registered

12 years ago

I agree. I think the pass rush has been a bit lacking overall this season. It's not terrible, but it's not up to the high standards of this defense. They've really missed Cullen Jenkins. I think Neal would be an adequate replacement if he was healthy, but he's not. Walden and Wynn are okay, but they can't make up for Jenkins either. So'oto looks like a more dynamic player who may be able to fill that role.

Originally Posted by: Greg C.

One of our guys is doing pretty good. Matthews had the most QB pressures in the league before Sunday. Pressure leads to picks and we lead the league ints.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

tromadz
Registered

12 years ago

#12

Whooooooo! I've been whining about getting this guy some playing time for weeks now. I'm just curious to see if he is going to bring what he brought in pre-season. Should be fun to see. I couldn't think of a better game to bring him in either. Ponder's first start.

And I think the pressures have been there more than we've given credit for. There have been a ton of breakdowns in the pass defense. Saying the volume of yards given up is predominantly because of a lack of pass rush seems a little disingenuous.

Originally Posted by: evad04

I disagree, mostly because you're wrong. We've been getting next to nothing on pass rushes. It's been annoying but I'm confident we'll turn it around.

Check Out My Comedy Website!

Packers_Finland
Registered

12 years ago

#13

So'oto has already played one snap this season, so it's not his "debut" actually.

But anyway, it'd be nice to see some pass rush from somewhere else than Matthews.

One of our guys is doing pretty good. Matthews had the most QB pressures in the league before Sunday. Pressure leads to picks and we lead the league ints.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister

He's not the second ranked 3-4 OLB in profootballfocus grades for nothing. Matthews has consistently graded above his average from last year. He's gotten less sacks than last year, but his QB hits and pressures are way up.

This is a placeholder

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#14

I can definitely agree that they've gotten decent pressure, at times. However, it could be a lot better. If the Packers could significantly increase their pass rush we would see far less "coverage breakdowns," undoubtedly.

get_louder_at_lambeau
Registered

12 years ago

#15

But anyway, it'd be nice to see some pass rush from somewhere else than Matthews.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland

Well, considering that we have two guys who have more sacks than Matthews, and we have NINE guys with at least one sack, you're already getting that. The Packers are top 10 in sacks in the NFL.

The pass rush should improve when Zombo and Neal are back healthy, but it's not like they haven't gotten any pressure. They have. Not quite on last year's pace, but pretty good considering our front 7 is missing both of the guys who should have been the starters on the right side- Neal and Zombo.

The secondary has CLEARLY been a big part of the problem, with Shields just getting his shit together the last couple games after a horrible start, Williams getting beat like he never did last year, partially due to injury, Woodson giving up lots of catches, Burnett blowing deep coverage more than once, and Peprah being the solid but generally underwhelming guy that he is. They have been great at jumping routes and grabbig some INTs, but not great at stopping the other guy from catching the ball. Hopefully it improves as Williams gets healthy. Maybe Woodson can get a little healthier too. He is practicing for once, and that has been really rare for him.

We have rushed 3 more than any team in the league. That means Capers is putting extra guys in coverage, and they still give up the catch way too often. I blame the coverage more than the pass rush, but the fault is shared.

http://packersnews.net

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#16

We have rushed 3 more than any team in the league. That means Capers is putting extra guys in coverage, and they still give up the catch way too often. I blame the coverage more than the pass rush, but the fault is shared.

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau

Well, I believe it's generally agreed upon that rushing three and/or prevent defenses aren't incredibly effective because regardless of coverage, SOMEONE will get open if a good QB has enough time in the pocket. That kind of goes back to my original point that a pass rush is more important than coverage. If 8 guys in coverage can't successfully defend 3-4 receivers, then another route should probably be taken. But, I suppose as long as our "bend-but-don't-break" defensive approach continues to work, it's OK. Obviously, I would rather getting the opposing teams offense off the field entirely and kill the clock with our offense. I think it's risky to depend on allowing teams to march down the field but hold them out of the end zone or depending on turnovers. It has worked so far against a few good teams and a few average ones, but I'm not sure it will consistently work against other elite teams, especially if our offense is having an off day (such as horrible weather in January at Lambeau.

I do expect our pass rush to improve, at least slightly. It just depends on the health of the team. I wish so much pressure wasn't put on Matthews to manufacture most the attention/pressure. I'm not sure what we would do without him.

Greg C.
Registered

12 years ago

#17

The old coverage vs. pass rush debate is always tricky, because stats are of very little help. Interceptions are often caused by a strong pass rush, while sacks are often caused by good coverage. And by the way, if you're going to hold up our defense's sack total as a positive stat, you have to be prepared to say that Clay Matthews is having a lousy year, as he only has two sacks after six games. I think Clay is playing as well as ever.

I agree that the secondary has not played as well as it did last year, but I am still with doddpower on this one. It just seems to me like a good pass rush can benefit a secondary to a greater degree than a good secondary can benefit the pass rush. The 2007 New York Giants are the poster child for that principle. Their secondary was mediocre but their pass rush was awesome, and they won the Super Bowl because of it. If you can cause the QB to rush his throws just a bit, or better yet put a little fear into him, good things can start happening very quickly.

blank

evad04
Member

12 years ago

#18

Of course a good pass rush helps the secondary. I'd never dispute that. But from my observation, our defensive woes this season have more to do with lapses in the secondary than problems pressuring the QB. Teams have added a lot more max protect schemes and are still finding open receivers. The pass rush could be better, and I hope it improves. My greater concern at this point, though, is still the secondary. Collins is gone, Tramon hasn't been healthy in weeks, and Woodson is a bit nicked as well. Now Shields is concussed. Hopefully in a month the injury situation is less dicey.

William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."

Since69
Registered

12 years ago

#19

Pressure does not lead to sacks. Coverage leads to sacks. Pressure leads to interceptions, especially against inexperienced QBs.

DoddPower
Veteran Member

12 years ago

#20

Pressure does not lead to sacks. Coverage leads to sacks. Pressure leads to interceptions, especially against inexperienced QBs.

Originally Posted by: Since69

Of course some level of average coverage is needed. But if the QB only has a few seconds to throw, it makes the job of a secondary much much easier. Coverage, even the best coverage, will only last so long until someone gets open enough to catch a quick pass. With enough pass rush, a quick jam at the line could be enough to destroy a play, even if the receivers get open fairly quickly after being jammed. So of course coverage plays a role. The two cannot be separated. But if I had to choose between an elite pass rush and elite coverage, I would choose pass rush as an elite pass rush can make an average secondary look pretty damn good.

Important Information:

The PACKERSHOME uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More Details Close

Fan Shout

Martha Careful (10-May) : 1. this is true of all our linemen. 2. His run block is fine. 3. If all OL played like he has, we would win SB.

beast (10-May) : Meyers pass blocking is really good, his run blocking is really not.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : Packers have claimed DE Spencer Waege off of waivers from the 49ers and waived DT Rodney Mathews.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : And the OL protections seem to be good.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : I really don't know lol. I don't see him getting blown up.

Zero2Cool (9-May) : -3 buwahhhahaaha

Mucky Tundra (9-May) : 4th

Zero2Cool (9-May) : because he's 1st

Mucky Tundra (9-May) : Myers isn't even the 3rd best C on the roster atm

Martha Careful (9-May) : I am not sure I understand the Myers hate. He was consistently our third best lineman. RG and LT were worse.

beast (9-May) : Just saying I don't think moving Myers would help Myers.

beast (9-May) : Center is usually considered the easiest position physically if you can handle the snap stuff.

Mucky Tundra (8-May) : Bust it is then

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Context. Sounds like Myers won't be cross-trained. C or bust.

Mucky Tundra (8-May) : @BookOfEli_NFL Packers pass game coordinator, Jason Vrable said that Jayden Reed and Dontayvion Wicks shared a placed in Florida while train

Mucky Tundra (8-May) : For now...

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers go about evaluating their "best five," OL coach Luke Butkus makes on thing clear: "Josh Myers is our center."

beast (8-May) : Though I'm a bit surprised letting go of CBs, I thought we needed more not less

beast (8-May) : It was confusing with two DB Anthony Johnson anyways

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers actually had Ray Lewis on the phone.

Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers wanted to draft Ray Lewis. Ravens stole him.

Martha Careful (6-May) : Happy 93rd Birthday to the Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time...Willie Mays

Zero2Cool (6-May) : Walter Stanely's son

buckeyepackfan (6-May) : and released CB Anthony Johnson and DL Deandre Johnson and waived/injured WR Thyrick Pitts (thigh-rick).

buckeyepackfan (6-May) : The Green Bay Packers have signed WR Julian Hicks, OL Lecitus Smith (luh-SEET-us) and WR Dimitri Stanley

Zero2Cool (6-May) : Petty, but it's annoying me how the NFL is making the schedule release an event.

Mucky Tundra (4-May) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on how he tore his pec: “Got in a fight with the bench press. I lost.”

Zero2Cool (3-May) : Jordan Love CAN sign an extension as of today. Might tak weeks/months though

TheKanataThrilla (3-May) : Packers decline 5th year option for Stokes

Mucky Tundra (3-May) : @ProFootballTalk Jaylen Warren: Steelers' special teams coach has discussed Justin Fields returning kicks.

Zero2Cool (2-May) : Season officially ending tonight for Bucks ... sad face

Zero2Cool (2-May) : Giannis Antetokounmpo is listed as out for tonight's game.

dfosterf (2-May) : Surprisingly low initially is my guess cap wise, but gonna pay the piper after that

dfosterf (2-May) : The number on Love is going to be brutal.

Zero2Cool (2-May) : May 3rd. Extension day for Jordan Love. (soonest)

Zero2Cool (1-May) : USFL MVP QB Alex McGough moved to WR. So that's why no WR drafted!

earthquake (1-May) : Packers draft starters at safety ever few years. Collins, Clinton-Dix, Savage

beast (1-May) : Why can't the rookies be a day 1 starter? Especially when we grabbed 3 of them at the position

dfosterf (1-May) : Not going to be shocked if Gilmore goes to the Lions.

dfosterf (1-May) : I hear you dhazer, but my guess would be Gilmore Colts and Howard Vikings from what little has been reported.

Mucky Tundra (30-Apr) : S learn from McKinney who learns from Hafley who learns from the fans. Guaranteed Super Bowl

Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : could*

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Safeties should learn from Xavier.

dhazer (29-Apr) : And what about grabbing a Gilmore or Howard at CB ? Those are all Free Agents left

dhazer (29-Apr) : out of curiosity do they try and sign Simmons or Hyde to let these young safeties learn from, they can't be day 1 starters.

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : I miss having Sam Shields.

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Not that he's making excuses, just pointing it out

Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : That's for dang sure. Make our erratic kicker have no excuse!

packerfanoutwest (28-Apr) : having a great long snapper is gold

Zero2Cool (28-Apr) : LaFleur looking like he had some weight. Coachin will do that lol

Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2023 Packers Schedule

Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM

Bears

38 - 20

Sunday, Sep 17 @ 12:00 PM

Falcons

24 - 25

Sunday, Sep 24 @ 12:00 PM

SAINTS

18 - 17

Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:15 PM

LIONS

20 - 34

Monday, Oct 9 @ 7:15 PM

Raiders

13 - 17

Sunday, Oct 22 @ 3:25 PM

Broncos

17 - 19

Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 PM

VIKINGS

10 - 24

Sunday, Nov 5 @ 12:00 PM

RAMS

20 - 3

Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM

Steelers

19 - 23

Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM

CHARGERS

23 - 20

Thursday, Nov 23 @ 11:30 AM

Lions

29 - 22

Sunday, Dec 3 @ 7:20 PM

CHIEFS

27 - 19

Monday, Dec 11 @ 7:15 PM

Giants

22 - 24

Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM

BUCCANEERS

20 - 34

Sunday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM

Panthers

33 - 30

Sunday, Dec 31 @ 7:20 PM

Vikings

33 - 10

Sunday, Jan 7 @ 3:25 PM

BEARS

17 - 9

Sunday, Jan 14 @ 3:30 PM

Cowboys

48 - 32

Saturday, Jan 20 @ 7:15 PM

49ers

21 - 24