DarkaneRules
8 years ago
Gosh, I just cannot say enough about this coaching staff and Aaron dealing with all the changes, especially as it relates to personnel. They've obviously worked real hard at developing an offense that allows all of our players to be in the best position to make a play every down. It's damn impressive. Our offensive line did a great job blocking one of the most talented fronts in the league two weeks in a row. They are the unsung heroes.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Zero2Cool
8 years ago
I could be mistaken on the distance as the point of it was Aaron Rodgers was completing short passes that have a high completion percentage, which is a smart thing to do.

I'm curious, so now I dig for facts. 🤤


Turns out Rodgers was 24 of 35 for the night and from behind the line of scrimmage to 9 yards, Rodgers was 19 of 24 and from 10 yards and further he was 5 of 11. And the Packers had only one dropped pass thanks to Davante Adams.

Let me rephrase that to make it more clear.

Aaron Rodgers threw 11 passes that traveled 10 or more yards and only 5 of them were completed. If this were any one else, we'd be jumping all over him calling him the CheckDownKing.
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DarkaneRules
8 years ago
Or we can call it the West Coast Offense.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
TheKanataThrilla
8 years ago

The ESPN folks showed a stat that Aaron Rodgers didn't complete a pass over 5 or 10 yards through I think three quarters or something. I read the article, it is not that hard to understand the negative grade. It's not the end of the world. I am finding it humorous how some are all "look ProFootballFocus is the dumb!" over this. If you for a second thing there is anything that is concrete in determining player worth, you're kind of naive. Because, if there was, then we wouldn't see draft picks being cut from teams ... ever.

PFF is good information. You can ignore it, you can take parts of it or you can go crazy and believe every single grade.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I just don't know how the short passes lessens the grade. He took what was given to him and the players made the right plays to gain a bunch of YAC. Why take the low percentage downfield play when you have guys who can guys who can make a move (like Cobb) and turn a 5 yard pass into 20?

Probably a case where in general the formula tells the right story and this in an anomoly.
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
8 years ago

PFF was right about the 3 TD's to Cobb. Didn't exactly require a pin point throw to a small window downfield. It was about like handing the ball to Lacy. Aaron Rodgers doesn't get credit for doing that, so...

PFF is a great source of information. But like test scores in school, they are not a perfect measure. Just 1 source. Criticizing PFF for imperfection is like whining about the Packers D in the 4th qtr.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



I love what PFF and the Outsiders are doing to give real meaning to traditional NFL stats...

BUT...

"imperfection" is not the word I'd use to describe a minus grade for that performance. It's a flaw in the grading system that should be fixed, not arrogantly and nonsensically defended. That is if they want to be taken seriously by the NFL.

Darkane says "stats are dumb"😂, I get that! But I think stats are like guns: stats are not dumb, people that use them dumbly are dumb. The entire purpose of stats is to reflect the reality of how good a player is. Some stats do, some stats dont, depending on the situation. Or in this case, if a stat is manufactured and it transmogrifies reality of how good a player is, then the stat is dumb.

That grade says 17 or so NFL coaches preferred the way their guy performed at QB over Aaron Rodgers this week. But, the reality is all but a few would trade for AR's performance for that of their QB if they could, even if the fumble occurred, even if Maugua INT that pass. If AR's play was viewed as well above by EVERY NFL coach and talent evaluater, and PFF's grade shows it's below average; then the PFF stat is failing to account for important factors of play and/or it is giving inappropriate weight to those critical factors.

I agree to a degree what you said about Cobb; but like what PackFanWT said, those throws were pinpoint accurate and had pinpoint timing. They were relatively easy throws. But, if say Cutler, Bridgewater or Stafford makes those 3 throws, the timing or location would have been off a touch on 1 or more of the 3, then i bet Cobb doesn't score on all 3 plays.

YAC is 80-90% about the throw being in a perfect location at a perfect time based on the position of the D and 10-20% about the receiver avoiding or breaking tackles.

On short passes:
In the 1st half, Smith also threw alot of short passes, did those fail because our D is so much better than KC's? Do we have alot more receiving talent over Macklin, Kelce and Charles? IMHO, the difference is Smith's reading an execution was much much worse than AR's, even on the short passes. What was his PFF grade?????
nerdmann
8 years ago

Or we can call it the West Coast Offense.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



I was digging that high percentage shit in the chat room.


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
8 years ago

I could be mistaken on the distance as the point of it was Aaron Rodgers was completing short passes that have a high completion percentage, which is a smart thing to do.

I'm curious, so now I dig for facts. 🤤


Turns out Rodgers was 24 of 35 for the night and from behind the line of scrimmage to 9 yards, Rodgers was 19 of 24 and from 10 yards and further he was 5 of 11. And the Packers had only one dropped pass thanks to Davante Adams.

Let me rephrase that to make it more clear.

Aaron Rodgers threw 11 passes that traveled 10 or more yards and only 5 of them were completed. If this were any one else, we'd be jumping all over him calling him the CheckDownKing.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Expanding on this a little. I'm not trying to knock Rodgers for taking what the defense gives him. That's the smart thing to do when you're up against a helluva pass rush. It's like extended screens or draw plays. It keeps the defense honest.

Do I agree with the negative grade? No. I think amassing 5 touchdowns with no turnovers outweighs the short passes and the receivers piling up yards after catch. One thing about the YAC is if the QB doesn't lead the WR properly, there will not be any YAC to add. I think that fact is missing in the grading scheme for ProFootballFocus.

All in all though, if PFF is consistent with how they grade across the board, there is still value in the statistics. I'm not saying big value or small value, just value depending on how in depth you read into them and what you take from them.
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steveishere
8 years ago
why did Rodgers only get .1 score for penalties when he caused 3 big offsides penalties? I guess an offsides is worth .033 score lol
dyeah_gb
8 years ago
I am surprised there is no mention of that fact that it was raining for about 3 quarters. Higher percentage short plays is smarter play with a potential slippery ball.

I do admit though that the 3 TD passes to Cobb reminded me of an AI exploiting play in Madden.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
yooperfan
8 years ago

The ESPN folks showed a stat that Aaron Rodgers didn't complete a pass over 5 or 10 yards through I think three quarters or something. I read the article, it is not that hard to understand the negative grade. It's not the end of the world. I am finding it humorous how some are all "look ProFootballFocus is the dumb!" over this. If you for a second thing there is anything that is concrete in determining player worth, you're kind of naive. Because, if there was, then we wouldn't see draft picks being cut from teams ... ever.

PFF is good information. You can ignore it, you can take parts of it or you can go crazy and believe every single grade.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Thanks, I choose to ignore it.
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beast (17-May) : Not sure why a players views reflect on GB... instead of simply on the player
Martha Careful (17-May) : I bet some of us have had 6+ mRNA jabs, a UKR flag on our walls, and still think Fauci has a thread of integrity
Zero2Cool (16-May) : From what I've read, it's all Jets , not us.
CanPackFan (16-May) : Will there ever be a time when Rodgers' whacko views will not reflect on GB? He is the past, thank god.
Zero2Cool (16-May) : Jan 4th gonna be rough with that start time lol
Zero2Cool (16-May) : Packers schedule listed. Boom.
buckeyepackfan (15-May) : Let the leaks begin. Colts @ Packers week 2, Vikings @ Packers week 4
Zero2Cool (14-May) : WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling to Bills
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Jets and Aaron Rodgers open up on Monday Night Football,
Zero2Cool (13-May) : $170 guaranteed. This might impact Jordan Love
Zero2Cool (13-May) : Lions are signing QB Jared Goff to a four-year, $212 million extension
Zero2Cool (13-May) : I know we moved on. That tidbit just makes me a touch happier.
Zero2Cool (13-May) : Sources spoke of many, many times last summer where Hackett called a play, then Rodgers changed it completely at the line
Martha Careful (10-May) : 1. this is true of all our linemen. 2. His run block is fine. 3. If all OL played like he has, we would win SB.
beast (10-May) : Meyers pass blocking is really good, his run blocking is really not.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : Packers have claimed DE Spencer Waege off of waivers from the 49ers and waived DT Rodney Mathews.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : And the OL protections seem to be good.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : I really don't know lol. I don't see him getting blown up.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : -3 buwahhhahaaha
Mucky Tundra (9-May) : 4th
Zero2Cool (9-May) : because he's 1st
Mucky Tundra (9-May) : Myers isn't even the 3rd best C on the roster atm
Martha Careful (9-May) : I am not sure I understand the Myers hate. He was consistently our third best lineman. RG and LT were worse.
beast (9-May) : Just saying I don't think moving Myers would help Myers.
beast (9-May) : Center is usually considered the easiest position physically if you can handle the snap stuff.
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : Bust it is then
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Context. Sounds like Myers won't be cross-trained. C or bust.
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : @BookOfEli_NFL Packers pass game coordinator, Jason Vrable said that Jayden Reed and Dontayvion Wicks shared a placed in Florida while train
Mucky Tundra (8-May) : For now...
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers go about evaluating their "best five," OL coach Luke Butkus makes on thing clear: "Josh Myers is our center."
beast (8-May) : Though I'm a bit surprised letting go of CBs, I thought we needed more not less
beast (8-May) : It was confusing with two DB Anthony Johnson anyways
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers actually had Ray Lewis on the phone.
Zero2Cool (8-May) : Packers wanted to draft Ray Lewis. Ravens stole him.
Martha Careful (6-May) : Happy 93rd Birthday to the Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time...Willie Mays
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Walter Stanely's son
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : and released CB Anthony Johnson and DL Deandre Johnson and waived/injured WR Thyrick Pitts (thigh-rick).
buckeyepackfan (6-May) : The Green Bay Packers have signed WR Julian Hicks, OL Lecitus Smith (luh-SEET-us) and WR Dimitri Stanley
Zero2Cool (6-May) : Petty, but it's annoying me how the NFL is making the schedule release an event.
Mucky Tundra (4-May) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on how he tore his pec: “Got in a fight with the bench press. I lost.”
Zero2Cool (3-May) : Jordan Love CAN sign an extension as of today. Might tak weeks/months though
TheKanataThrilla (3-May) : Packers decline 5th year option for Stokes
Mucky Tundra (3-May) : @ProFootballTalk Jaylen Warren: Steelers' special teams coach has discussed Justin Fields returning kicks.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Season officially ending tonight for Bucks ... sad face
Zero2Cool (2-May) : Giannis Antetokounmpo is listed as out for tonight's game.
dfosterf (2-May) : Surprisingly low initially is my guess cap wise, but gonna pay the piper after that
dfosterf (2-May) : The number on Love is going to be brutal.
Zero2Cool (2-May) : May 3rd. Extension day for Jordan Love. (soonest)
Zero2Cool (1-May) : USFL MVP QB Alex McGough moved to WR. So that's why no WR drafted!
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