US Today Poll on Gun Ownership· Page 3

Pack93z
Select Member

11 years ago

You can go back to Reagan's eighties to trace the deterioration of the Mental Health Association in this country. Yet another social program gutted to enhance the War Machine. Not all of the children in our society are well adjusted human beings, and because they are able to slip through the cracks, the ones that need help aren't getting it.

They make us get permits to hunt and fish, but any unstable asshole gets to be a parent. What happened in Connecticut is a societal breakdown on many levels including parenting, teachers, school counselors, pedestrians. And I'm not defending the crime either, there was personal responsibility for him to get help as well.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

That is a better versed restatement of my position the last time this conversation came up. I agree.

There are many layers to this discussion.. not just the guns themselves.. and not the people that adopt or oppose them. There are the extremists on both sides, but for the most part, we can improve the situation if we talk as a nation intelligently and consider all aspects of the problem itself.

Not just the guns.. but the people that use them.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

DakotaT
Select Member

11 years ago

#22

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

Haven't you been watching? This country is polarized, and an intelligent conversation on any issue is impossible, yet alone a resolution.

Pack93z
Select Member

11 years ago

#23

Haven't you been watching? This country is polarized, and an intelligent conversation on any issue is impossible, yet alone a resolution.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

I have been watching and I still am in the corner that a revolution of sorts is coming for this country. Look no further than the United we stand thread.. there is no doubt this country is fractured.

And I am sure that this debate will be more of the same... but on can still hope that men and women grow the fuck up and actually work towards a solution in place of the typical grandstanding for public opinion while forgetting to actually work for the betterment of the country as a whole. Working for the people.. not the votes.

No matter how fleeting that hope may be.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Porforis
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#24

But when they wrote the words "right to bear arms" the world was equipted with muzzleloaders not AK47's and M16's. To me this issue is just like the tax issue of raising taxes 3% on the wealthy. It really isn't that big of a deal to make a compromise but you have radical people on both sides that won't budge and inch. And then the masses get caught in a black and white resolution when the real answer is grey.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

There also wasn't the internet, that doesn't mean that we should start questioning the right to free speech because the founders had no concept of how powerful and wide-reaching a single voice could be. That's not to say that your point isn't completely valid, but if you look at the idea behind the amendment, the founders for the most part believed that a free, well-armed people discouraged tyrants and enabled revolution in the case of tyrants. Back in the day, the military and private citizens had access to the same weapons. While it's certainly a valid point that the sheer destruction that can be wrought by perfectly legal weapons is vastly greater now than could have been envisioned in the 1700s, you are sacrificing the safety of society for its ability to overthrow a corrupt government or military no longer serves the people. Whether that's worth it to you is up to you, if you would have asked me 10 years ago if I'd sacrifice safety for that ability I'd say no up and down. Nowadays? I hate guns but I don't want the only weapons of any significant usefulness restricted to the government and criminals (mostly gangs).

Side note: These weapons were owned by his mother, not him.

musccy
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#25

If there's a will, there's a way and this issue has to be dealt with as such. Although on some level I agree with some of the gun control proposals being talked about the last few days, as we've seen in the last 6 months, explosive devices are part of the "way" as well (CO booby trapped apt, Oklahoma threat on Friday involved pipe bombs, pipe bomb brought to school in Lynchburg, VA about a month ago) and no amount of gun control can regulate that.

Wade
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#26

States have killed far more people without a legitimate reason to do so than individual criminals, accidents, and spree killers combined. By two or three orders of magnitude.

Damn right I think crazy on this one.

Yeah, weapons technology has progressed far beyond the muzzleloaders and swords of old.

That, to me, makes the right to bear arms *more* important than ever.

Damn right I'm crazy.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

DakotaT
Select Member

11 years ago

#27

Originally Posted by: Wade

Maybe they should sit your crazy ass in a room with the twenty families that just lost their babies forever so you could explain your theory?

None of us has the right to own a machine gun. Semi automatic rifles and pistols are not necessary for hunting or self defense. We live in a violent society and the people that would benefit the most from destroying these types of weapons are the ones fighting to keep our "freedoms". Coincedentally, these are the same people who continually vote against their economic interests. I love living amongst dumbasses.

Pack93z
Select Member

11 years ago

#28

Maybe they should sit your crazy ass in a room with the twenty families that just lost their babies forever so you could explain your theory?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

I have done everything in my power to avoid hearing, looking at or seeing the names or the faces involved. Reading their stories or hearing about how it happened.

Not because I don't care.. because it would throw me into such a fit of anger, sadness and helplessness. Mostly, because there isn't a damn thing I can do to fix it.

Adults dying is one thing.. children dying is completely another.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Porforis
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#29

Maybe they should sit your crazy ass in a room with the twenty families that just lost their babies forever so you could explain your theory?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

Oh, come on. That line of reasoning and play to emotions is beneath you. And if it weren't for the pure insensitive nature of confronting a family in grief with a question like this, do you REALLY think all those families would be all for banning everything beyond single-fire rifles and shotguns, 6-round handgun clips? Do you really think ALL of them are dumb enough to not realize that this tragedy could have happened just as easily with an illegal and trivial cartridge modification to a handgun? Or to a lesser extent, with weapons you seem fine with keeping legal?

Formo
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#30

Maybe they should sit your crazy ass in a room with the twenty families that just lost their babies forever so you could explain your theory?

None of us has the right to own a machine gun. Semi automatic rifles and pistols are not necessary for hunting or self defense. We live in a violent society and the people that would benefit the most from destroying these types of weapons are the ones fighting to keep our "freedoms". Coincedentally, these are the same people who continually vote against their economic interests. I love living amongst dumbasses.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

I can't fathom a reason for me to own a machine gun. There is no good reason to, IMO. But if the gubment can own and operate one, damn straight I wouldn't mind having one myself.

We lost our freedoms and liberties when the government achieved the access to items/weapons/etc that we cannot.

Safety vs Freedom. I choose Freedom.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

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