Zero2Cool
2 months ago
Okay, so I was poking fun in Fan Shout at some saying X is a WR who's Y pounds. Why do we do this? What's the difference between a big WR vs TE who can catch?

Why does it feel like we're slighting a TE just cuz he's tall and heavy but can catch the ball really well?

Whats a TE?
Whats a WR?
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beast
2 months ago

Okay, so I was poking fun in Fan Shout at some saying X is a WR who's Y pounds.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


After someone accidentally implied Kelce is a WR, I said Kelce is a 250lb WR... because IMO that's exactly what he is, a receiver.

Why do we do this? What's the difference between a big WR vs TE who can catch?
Whats a TE?
Whats a WR?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Quality blocking (especially inline blocking) is the main difference.

I look forward to seeing Martha's definitions, as she's old school, and the distinction that I make, probably goes back to the old school. True TEs can seriously block. Where more and more of today's TEs are more pure receivers.

Not that it's a bad thing, it's just a distinction. I think it comes more from the defensive mindset of how are you going to stop this guy. Is he physically and you need a physical (LB) to stop him? Or do you need a coverage guy (LB/S/CB) to stop him? And with Kelce, like Jimmy Graham, there is no debate, it's 1,000% a coverage guy.


As for TE blocking, it's run blocking in today's NFL, as usual TEs are sent out into routes on pass plays and don't do much pass blocking. Like Travis Kelce, in 11 games, has 12 pass block snaps. That's probably an extreme example but Titans Trevon Wesco has 88 pass blocks, the most in the NFL for a TE (next is only at 64) but Wesco has 244 run blocks, run blocks always seem to 2.5 times more likely or much higher.

Why does it feel like we're slighting a TE just cuz he's tall and heavy but can catch the ball really well?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Hmm, 🤔, why does it feel like a slight to you?

Couldn't it be a compliment?

Despite being banged up to start the season, Kelce has the 16th most receiving yards... WRs get paid more than TEs, Kelce should be getting that higher WR money as he is a WR.

16 teams (including the Packers) don't have a receiver that can keep up with Kelce.

He can't block well for a TE... so what... that doesn't bother the Chiefs, that shouldn't bother anyone, he's not a good blocker, but he is an elite receiver.

TE vs WR label (to me) is more about what type of player you are... not in terms of good or bad, but in terms of, how you have to account for them defensively.

Like Jimmy Graham, according to TJ Lang, you didn't have to worry about Graham blocking anyone, it was his receiving abilities you had to watch for.

Kelce is PROBABLY a future Hall of Famer, due to his receiving abilities. He's not a very good blocker and based on his podcast with his brother he'll probably tell you that... or agree with you on that, as long as you aren't saying it disrespectfully. I know he has talked about edge blockers on Punt/FG teams and how they're basically out in a no win situations where they're going to get nailed every single time and they're some of the most toughest guys and he couldn't do that, as one blocker is being asked to block two guys, and one of them is going to nail you.

Just Kelce is an elite receiver, not a good blocker. Nothing wrong with being an elite WR.

Also the Kelce brothers have semi-jokingly (or simply laughing when they're not joking at all) told George Kittle if he wants to get the ball more, simply stop being as good of a blocker. As the better blocker you are, the less routes you get to run, which is probably a factual statement. The better blocker you are, the more you'll be used for blocking and less receiving. But it'll help the team more if you are a complete player. This is not to say, Kelce doesn't give it 100% when he is asked to block, he probably does, but he probably cares much more about receiving.

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beast
2 months ago
To summarize for those that like short posts.

It's more of a style thing.

Like Dugara is an H-back type TE.
Musgrave is a WR like TE.
Kraft is a true TE like TE.

In my opinion, one isn't nessarily better than the others, it's more about size and styles of play

==============


Like people arguing if Tom was a C, G or OT... he's got the size for the interior, but that guy is athletic enough to stay at OT.

Same with Bakhtiari, and Bakhtiari might lack the physical mauler style to succeed at OG despite having the OG size.

Different styles, more than good or bad.

Though then you get a guy like George Kittle, and he's an every single style, do it all type.
UserPostedImage
2 months ago

To summarize for those that like short posts.

Like Dugara is an H-back type TE.
Musgrave is a WR like TE.
Kraft is a true TE like TE.
...
Though then you get a guy like George Kittle, and he's an every single style, do it all type.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Beast, is absolutely spot on in his breakdown.

Kittle is the best TE by far. Kelce is a large WR who blocks ok.

Kraft is closer to becoming a Kittle kind of guy than Musgrave IMHO. Let's hope both get there. Blocking is about mentality as much as physical prowess or technique. I see it in Kraft.

Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
2 months ago

To summarize for those that like short posts.

Originally Posted by: beast 


A man of the people, for the people!
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Fan Shout
Martha Careful (24-Feb) : ty, and ty dfosterf for the new thread.
Zero2Cool (24-Feb) : Which came off like he's not ready
Zero2Cool (24-Feb) : Last I recall hearing was from GM who said he was "in the process"
Martha Careful (24-Feb) : Are there any relatively current reports on whether Bakhtiari is going to be ready to play?
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : That's a nice jump isn't it from 2023?
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : Bahaha
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : NFL announced today that the 2024 Salary Cap will be $255.4 million per club
buckeyepackfan (23-Feb) : 255.4mil!!!!
buckeyepackfan (23-Feb) : NFL anounces 2024 salary cap at 25.4mil, a 30mil increase from 2023.
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : Chiefs sign Matt Araiza after punter dropped from lawsuit
buckeyepackfan (21-Feb) : Miracles can happen.
packerfanoutwest (20-Feb) : hope Aaron Hill can put an end to all these ridiculous hammie injuries
Zero2Cool (20-Feb) : ource says 2024 salary will be closer to $250 million than $243 million.
Zero2Cool (20-Feb) : Packers are hiring 49ers assistant strength coach Aaron Hill as their new head of strength and conditioning
Martha Careful (18-Feb) : No worries…Happy President's Day. I hope most of you have the day off.
dhazer (18-Feb) : Sorry Martha didn't see the story your on it already
beast (18-Feb) : I'm pretty sure those cap hits are going to hit no matter what, if the players are released, re-sign, whatever, the cap hits are earned
Martha Careful (18-Feb) : DH, 10.4 I agree. Z2C IIRC they could sign later, but lose ability to adjust void years/dead cap
Zero2Cool (18-Feb) : They could release before Monday. Then sign later, yea?
Zero2Cool (18-Feb) : Doesn't meant they won't be on Packers in 2024 does it?
dhazer (18-Feb) : @martha That's why said I guess we will know about Savage because if no extension we get a $5 million cap hit for him
Martha Careful (17-Feb) : Per Packers cap expert Ken Ingalls, Nixon, Savage, and Nijman have void provisions that will trigger on Feb. 19.
Zero2Cool (17-Feb) : I just looked at the contract overview. Not sure what Monday means
Zero2Cool (16-Feb) : How's that work? They can't sign him via free agency?
dhazer (16-Feb) : I am guessing we will know if they are bringing Savage back by Monday, if not extended his cap hit for void years is almost $6 million
Martha Careful (15-Feb) : Kudos to them for the quick hook.
Martha Careful (15-Feb) : Wilks looked clueless and frozen in the 4th Q and OT. I think Shanahan was telling him to dial up pressure and he was in capable.
Mucky Tundra (15-Feb) : *them
Mucky Tundra (15-Feb) : And it looks like San Fran missed out on all the good coordinators from the hiring cycle. I will now play the worlds smallest violin for the
Zero2Cool (15-Feb) : 49ers fire D-coordinator Steve Wilks after one season
packerfanoutwest (14-Feb) : So where were thet for the Championship games?
Martha Careful (13-Feb) : I think they were a reaction to prevent another incident like the Philly game earlier where an asst. coach got involved w/ an opp. playerg
packerfanoutwest (13-Feb) : what's up with the Ninja sideline officials?
umair_010 (12-Feb) : Watching mahomes roll on the floor after winning looked so fake and phoney. I can’t be the only one
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : The Chicago Bears are now on the clock
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Blocked XP didnt help either
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Taylor Swift starts to follow the Chiefs and watches a Super Bowl win her 1st year. Other fanbases watch enviously
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : San Fran lost this game in the 1st quarter when they piled up yards but didnt score
buckeyepackfan (12-Feb) : lol
buckeyepackfan (12-Feb) : Don't know how Vegas does it. 46.5 over/under I took the under
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : they had a chance to win it. Second, and five on the 5 yard line running left successfully and chose to run, right
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Sucks to suck San Fran
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Winner winner chicken dinner!
TheKanataThrilla (12-Feb) : Calling TD to Kelce...the perfect NFL marketing ending
TheKanataThrilla (12-Feb) : MVS was a dumb play there
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Ack what was that?
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Oh is it already down to this?
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Between the McCaffrey and Juszyzck plays I thought they were cooked
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Wow the Chiefs hang on
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Giving up a 15 yard completion on 2nd & 12? Joe Barry level stuff
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