dhazer
  • dhazer
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2 months ago
I just came across a Facebook post comparing Love Rodgers and Favre and one of the comments was to wait till he gets the 4 MVPs or the 3 Brett won and it got me thinking about that award. I have heard many players say they should just change it to the QB award and not the MVP because usually it only goes to a QB. Since 1980, there have been only 11 non-quarterback winners, and out of those 11, 9 were running backs then we had LT win, and believe it or not Mark Mosely won it as a kicker. But back to my thoughts, I believe the MVP is more of a popularity award than an actual on-field performance award. I look no further than Rodgers winning over Brady the year Brady won the ring with the Bucs. The Bucs went from a 7-9 team to SuperBowl champs and that should be worthy of an MVP.

So let me throw some numbers out there from this season and one will be the easy MVP from all the talk (Jalen Hurts) and another is a qb that people say might his last year.

Player 1
2599 yards
19 tds
10 ints


Player 2
3339 yards
18 tds
13 ints

Player 3
2917 yards
21 tds
9 ints

Player 4
2697 yards
18 tds
10 ints

So here is the list
Player 1 is Jordan Love the QB some writers are saying he is not an NFL QB

Player 2
Leading the NFL in yards is Sam Howell of the Redskins

Player 3 is a future HOF Patrick Maholmes

and Player 4 is Jalen Hurts

So by looking at the numbers why would they be pushing Hurts so much for MVP? His numbers make him a middle-of-the-pack QB.

Like I said it is more of the flavor at the time that gets these awards and not the best player that year.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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beast
2 months ago

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Originally Posted by: dhazer 


This ain't fantasy football, it ain't all about the basic numbers.

Hurts also has 11 rushing TDs

The other 3 QBs you mentioned combine to only have 5 rushing TDs.

But yes Hurts is probably over rated because he gets talked about too much because the Philly Push (or whatever name they want to give it this week).

If you purely want the best QB this season, it's probably Dak Prescott. And he's being criticized more than loved because the Cowboys team is crazily inconsistent at times, in part due to crazy loads of penalties, and their defense either dominates or gets dominated, seemingly with little middle ground.
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dhazer
  • dhazer
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
2 months ago
That's kind of what I am bringing up the MVP seems to be a QB award and more of a popularity award. As you mentioned Dak was crucified early in the season but now he's putting up Pat Mahomes numbers of a few years ago and all you hear about is Hurts. The Eagles this year remind me of the Vikings last year and they are just having the ball bounce just right for them. I mean if you want to talk about value to a team what about Cousins he goes down and the Vikes are a sinking ship with him they were still in the hunt for the division.

Like I said was just curious what others thought about the award and should we use it as a measuring point to someone's career?
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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Zero2Cool
2 months ago
I'll be the un-fun guy in the room. Again.

I think we need to define what Most Valuable Player means. Unfairly stated, the QB is the most important position on an NFL team, so that increases the value of the QB just by default.

We have conference offense/defense player of the year awards, but I would like to see that be league instead of conference. Actually, screw that. We have the All-Pro and that's where it should end. There isn't any need for a MVP award for the league. The NFL has tailored rule after rule to benefit the offense AND hurt the defense. This has been done to get the attention of the casual fan base who just wants to see high scores for their piece of crap fantasy football teams. One of many consequences is a league award has turned into a QB biased award. The hell with that.

As for MVP. I would say Joe Burrow because we're seeing how much the Bengals dropped off without him. He's the QB who's most valuable to his team's success. Therefore, he's my MVP.
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beast
2 months ago

That's kind of what I am bringing up the MVP seems to be a QB award and more of a popularity award. As you mentioned Dak was crucified early in the season but now he's putting up Pat Mahomes numbers of a few years ago and all you hear about is Hurts. The Eagles this year remind me of the Vikings last year and they are just having the ball bounce just right for them. I mean if you want to talk about value to a team what about Cousins he goes down and the Vikes are a sinking ship with him they were still in the hunt for the division.

Like I said was just curious what others thought about the award and should we use it as a measuring point to someone's career?

Originally Posted by: dhazer 


Yes, the Award absolutely is a QB award at this point. What I would really like the NFL to do is to set up an award at each position, like All-Pro has one at each position. So you get the best RB for this year, or best LT or OG, or DT, etc etc.

As MVP just goes to the QB too often. And as I've seen one person talk about, the defensive award has simply gones to the best pass rusher and coverage guys don't seem to win it in the last decade. Since 2011, only two non-pass rushers have won it.


As for Hurts and the award, he hasn't (yet) ever won the award, so I don't think we can factor Hurts into the award criticism.

Lots of guys have gotten stupid amounts of Awards Hyde and then never were awarded the Trophy.

I feel like the MVP Trophy has usually correctly gone to the QB with the best season. And we'll just have to wait and see if Hurts gets it.

If he does, then I currently agree with your point.

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beast
2 months ago

We'll have to wait and see whom gets it.

But I think there was an old saying, general rule for NFL MVP, where if QBs threw at least 30 TDs and less than 7 INTs then they were locks for MVP. Of course that was with 16 games, not 17.

But using those numbers, the QBs currently in the conversation would be

For just the TDs part (out of 11 games unless otherwise stated) and rushing TD listed if more than 4.
[list]
  • 26 Cowboy Prescott (12 games)
  • 24 Bills Allen (12 games) (9 rushing TDs)
  • 22 Dolphins Tagovailoa
  • 21 Chiefs Mahomes
  • 20 Broncos Wilson
  • 20 Chargers Herbert
  • 19 Packers Love
  • 19 49ers Purdy
  • 19 Texans Stroud
  • 18 Vikings Cousins
  • 18 Lions Goff
  • 18 Eagles Hurts (11 rushing TDs)
  • 18 Commanders Howell
  • [/list]

    To be on pace for 30 they should have at least 20 right now. And all of them are over 7 INTs except Prescott, Herbert, Wilson, Purdy, Strout, and Cousins.

    But I think you could argue that the following should be eliminated due to INTs, Allen, Tagovailoa, (maybe Mahomes), Love, Hurts and Howell. All have 9 INTs or more already.

    Saving Mahomes is his track record, and saving Hurts is the only one loss all season so far, but eliminate the rest, and eliminate Cousins (injured) and Goff (he's behind on the TDs and higher on the INTs) and Chargers are last in their division so taking Herbert out.


    So my Semi-Finals list of which QBs should be considered of MVP.
    • 26 TDs, 6 INTs: Cowboy Prescott (12 games)
    • 21 TDs, 9 INTs Chiefs Mahomes
    • 20 TDs, 4 INTs Broncos Wilson
    • 19 TDs, 6 INTs 49ers Purdy
    • 19 TDs, 5 INTs Texans Stroud
    • 18 TDs, 10 INTs Eagles Hurts (11 rushing TDs)

    I think Purdy is considered a system QB and he has the RB in running for MVP too. Stroud is a rookie and they're both under that 20 number currently.


    • 26 TDs, 6 INTs: Cowboy Prescott (12 games)
    • 21 TDs, 9 INTs Chiefs Mahomes
    • 20 TDs, 4 INTs Broncos Wilson
    • 18 TDs, 10 INTs Eagles Hurts (11 rushing TDs)

    So yeah, Hurts is mainly being considered because the teams overall record of 10-1 and the brotherly shove popularity and he gets attention from it.

    Prescott currently should be the lead for MVP race. That doesn't mean he'll get the most talk, but if the Eagles got 15-2 Hurts might get it anyways.

    Also there is this video



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    beast
    2 months ago
    And to my point that we shouldn't be assuming Hurts will win it just because he currently had the hype, and that MVP usually rises to the top.

    Hurts and the Eagles just lost two games.to the 49ers and Cowboys, while it's team losses, most of Hurts hype was built around the fact the team only had one loss, #1 seed and a lot of close calls in which Hurts bailed them out... with the hype around the Brotherly Shove play....

    And now, Cowboys lead the division, with Dak Prescott seemingly having the clear best argument for any QB (and some call it a QB award for a reason).

    As for non-QBs, the last I heard, WR Tyreek Hill is on pace to be the first WR to break 2,000 yards in a season... if he does, that absolutely will get hype. And the RBs to win it usually have had to break the 2,000 yards make and not have a super said out QB that year.

    Though only 4 of the 8 RBs to break 2,000 yards have gotten the award over a QB, and to break it down further, 3 of the 4 RBs to do it before the year 2000, for the MVP award, but only 1 of 4 RBs to break 2,000 yards since the year 2000 have gotten the award.

    And with that, you also have to consider RB Christian McCaffrey, though he's not on pace to break 2,000

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    Zero2Cool
    2 months ago
    I'm not sure. I just couldn't care less about MVP. Oddily enough the offensive and defensive player of the year awards matter to me more.

    I kinda lump MVP along with Pro Bowl in that it's just kind of a popularity vote or slanted voting.

    All Pro and offensive and defensive player of year awards feel more earned. At least to me.
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    beast
    2 months ago
    https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/lamar-jackson-becomes-clear-mvp-favorite-after-last-nights-win 

    Supposedly Lamar Jackson becomes the clear MVP candidate, according to PFT.

    But I feel like they're just giving it to the QB on the best team, not really the best QB or best player.
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    Mucky Tundra
    2 months ago

    https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/lamar-jackson-becomes-clear-mvp-favorite-after-last-nights-win

    Supposedly Lamar Jackson becomes the clear MVP candidate, according to PFT.

    But I feel like they're just giving it to the QB on the best team, not really the best QB or best player.

    Originally Posted by: beast 



    While Jackson deserves to be in the conversation, I think should be CMC vs Hill to be honest.
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