Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago
I agree with some of the principle that the Packers are in a bind with regards to the Grant deal being linked to Williams.

But I disagree greatly that the Grant deal was a mistake.

Bedard fails to take into account that both of these players came up through the undrafted free agent status and were trapped in the exclusive free agent category from day one.. one that preys on players that truly have to fight, claw and battle for their NFL life from word go.

The system as it was and is, was stacked completely against them getting a fair contract. Players like Revis piss and moan about outplaying their contract, yet they all got paid pretty fairly because they were drafted and somehow were anointed worthy of solid NFL money from day one and truly had some margin for error in keeping a spot on the roster for a couple of years.

Guys like Grant and Williams never got that chance.. never got a hefty signing bonus or the luxury of a guaranteed roster spot for a couple of years to get their feet under them.

Williams has proved his value in the NFL, that the kid can play, yet the system allows him little in the terms of getting paid fairly for his hard work and paying his dues.

This is not blaming the Packers for using the system, hell they anted up last season to give Williams more than the system mandated. Yet even at 3 million a season, comparatively he is well unpaid for his value. All without any long term assurances in case he suffers a career altering injury.. echoes of the Walker days all over.

Full circle, one can shake the finger at the Packers for breaking stride with Grant and now having to answer for it.. but color me in the opposing corner.

The one were I think the Packers, in an incentive laden deal did the right thing with Grant, and hopefully the right thing with Williams. Painting the picture of a success story with undrafted free agents and attracting the cream of the crop in future years. Because they, if the player earns it, get handled fairly in a unfair setting.



Grant deal coming home to roost for Packers with Williams 
By Greg A. Bedard of the Journal Sentinel

June 16, 2010 |(9) Comments

So the Packers could be heading down the road for contract drama with cornerback Tramon Williams.

I say could because we dont know anything definitive yet.

We do know Williams did not sign his tender by 4 p.m. on Tuesday. We know the Packers told Williams and Atari Bigby they would have their tenders replaced with 110% of their 2009 salary if the players did not sign their original tenders.

Maybe Williams signed late last night. Maybe the Packers decided not to use the 110% rule after all. Maybe they decided to give him a contract extension. Maybe Ill be thin someday.

But all signs were pointing toward Williams not signing his tender, and the Packers cutting his potential 2010 salary by over $2 million.

So the popular question Ive been getting is, Does Williams deserve beyond his one-year, $3.168-million tender?

No.

And yes.

As a matter of personal opinion, I believe a player is entitled to get whatever he can because the NFL is a harsh business. I believe special players that clearly are better than their rookie contracts should have their contracts redone as soon as possible.

I also believe the NFL should live up to their original contracts. That means for players that were set to become unrestricted free agents this year, I think its categorically unfair that, because the owners opted out of the CBA early, players are the ones that suffer.

You can say all you want about they should have known or their agents should have known, but come on. How was a college kid or even their agent supposed to anticipate in 2006 that two years later, without much conversation ahead of time, the owners were going to suddenly change the rules?

So guys in their fourth or even fifth year, I feel for them and think what the owners have done is just wrong.

But heres the thing: none of that applies to Williams.

Hes only played three years. And while a good player, hes not special yet. And his tender is more than fair for a player with only 20 starts under his belt.

So in that sense, no, I dont think Williams deserves a contract extension, all things being equal.

But they arent. And the Packers have only themselves to blame for that.

The Packers set themselves up for this on Aug. 5, 2008 when at the height of the Brett Favre drama and with Russ Ball handling his first major contract as the Packers contract man after Andrew Brandt departed, the Packers caved in and gave running back Ryan Grant a four-year contract that was worth $20 million at the time. Now its worth much more.

It wasnt hard to see how that decision was going to come home to roost for the Packers at some point. Some of us have talked about it a time or two.

Up until that point, the Packers had been decidedly disciplined in how and when and to whom they gave contract extensions to. It was a big reason why they got in good cap shape in such a hurry after Mike Sherman.

The players that got new deals had put in their time, signed their tenders and just played along with the program.

But the decision by Ball and Ted Thompson to do that deal then with Grant eroded much of what the Packers had done previously.

You can point out how the Packers had to do that deal at that time. And you can also say looking at it now, it was a good deal for the Packers and continues to be.

Both may be true.

But they dont mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not to other players and agents.

Some of you dont like it when I say that every contract has ramifications inside the Packers locker room. That if so and so gets this, then this guy is going to want this.

Tough. Its the truth. Happens in every single locker room in every sport.

And you certainly arent going to hear any player talking about the ramifications of a teammates contract. Thats a big locker room no-no. Doesnt mean theres not a lot of complaining going on behind closed doors. There is.

So when the Packers gave Grant that deal, after his first accrued season in the NFL, his first with the Packers, after 15 games played and seven regular-season starts, they set the stage for guys like Williams to want theirs.

He and they have a point.

How can the Packers give Grant his deal, yet refuse to give the same kind of deal to Williams after he did everything they asked of him for three seasons and he started more than twice as many games as Grant (20 - 10 last season)?

Can the Packers tell Williams that Grant was more valuable when he got his contract? I dont think so.

Throw in the situation at cornerback and that its an uncapped year, and its hard not to see that Williams has a fairly compelling case to want his contract extension now.

So at face value, does Williams deserve a new deal? No. But context does he? Probably, yeah.

And the Packers made this bed and now it appears theyll have to lay in it.

About the only way for the Packers to have avoided this, besides telling Grant to kick rocks, was to make him a take-it-or-leave-it one-year offer of about $3 million with the promise to do something down the road if he continues to perform. Thats essentially what theyve done with Williams.

Maybe the Packers are trying to get back on contract message with the Williams negotiations and theyll make a stand on this.

Will it work out? No one knows.

Is this the right time and position to do it after what happened last year in the secondary and with the team on the brink of being a Super Bowl contender?

That might be the key question.

And that, also, is in the Packers hands.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
IronMan
14 years ago
Either he signs it, or he gets nothing. Pretty simple. Ted has him by the balls.
bozz_2006
14 years ago
True enough. But if Ted doesn't get him signed, we are potentially completely unproven at CB after Woodson. I think the Packers need to sign him long-term. And I think they should.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
14 years ago

Either he signs it, or he gets nothing. Pretty simple. Ted has him by the balls.

"IronMan" wrote:



Very true, if we want to play hard ball... there is a risk that we piss off our only (at the moment) proven CB with youth on the team.. and may make it a franchise tag or loss him situation when he reaches Unrestricted Free Agency.

We could, negotiate a deal (similar to the Rodgers timing) where we buy up a couple of those Unrestricted years at a lower franchise benefited amount and pay him fairly in his remaining Restricted years.

Just a thought.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
I'm with Shaun.

The ability to play hardball doesn't make playing hardball the right approach.

The problem with playing hardball is that it discourages loyalty and encourages your employee to think of the relationship as us-versus-them.

Now there are a lot of people out there who think this is the way to go. And some us-versus-them is unavoidable. But in general, I think that organizational choices that build an us-versus-them atmosphere suffer.

I don't know what the right approach for the Packers to take regarding Tramon's tender. I simply don't know enough about the situation -- what the parties have done/not done/said/not said up to this point in the negotiation. But I hope they took the "reduce tender" approach for a reason slightly bigger than "because we can."

"Because we can" is *not* conducive to building/maintaining a relationship on other than us-versus-them terms.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Isn't Tramon Williams scheduled to make 3 million this year? That's playing hardball with someone who has not been a starter for a full season and is our 3rd CB? How is that hardball?
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PackerTraxx
14 years ago
My thought is, and it is only a guess, is that Ted Thompson is stalling for time. Time to see how Lee and Harris look. Time to see who else might be available. Time to do whatever has to be done. Williams appears to be our best young corner. But I don't believe he is of the quality it takes to win championships, unless he improves noticeably. That's why I hope Lee proves to be better and that we can find another one better because Woody can't play forever.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I'm guessing, as with most teams, they want to wait until we have a CBA before procuring long term contracts with youthful players that have yet to fully prove themselves.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago

Isn't Tramon Williams scheduled to make 3 million this year? That's playing hardball with someone who has not been a starter for a full season and is our 3rd CB? How is that hardball?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I think that tendering him at that level isn't the hardball part...

If the Packers drop the tender to 110% of his contract last season.. about 2 million less.. it is.

If I am in Tramon's position.. I do the exact same thing, as it is the only leverage I have. By not signing the tender.. he leaves the door open for a long term deal.. without it he has nothing other than good will from the Packers.

Maybe I am too soft on these undrafted players whom have to walk the tight rope by not missing a beat to remain on the roster..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago

I'm with Shaun.

The ability to play hardball doesn't make playing hardball the right approach.

The problem with playing hardball is that it discourages loyalty and encourages your employee to think of the relationship as us-versus-them.

Now there are a lot of people out there who think this is the way to go. And some us-versus-them is unavoidable. But in general, I think that organizational choices that build an us-versus-them atmosphere suffer.

I don't know what the right approach for the Packers to take regarding Tramon's tender. I simply don't know enough about the situation -- what the parties have done/not done/said/not said up to this point in the negotiation. But I hope they took the "reduce tender" approach for a reason slightly bigger than "because we can."

"Because we can" is *not* conducive to building/maintaining a relationship on other than us-versus-them terms.

"Wade" wrote:



Agreed.

I also agree that the drop off is big. Until Harris returns, we got Charles Woodson and then uh oh. I wonder what opposing Os will do against us.

Most solid teams have 2 good WRs.

I'm being realistic here. We don't got him by the balls. He's got us by the balls. This is where our management has to have communication skills. Tell Tramon how valuable he is to the team. Tell Tramon that we want him long-term. Then pay him a long-term contract with dollar incentives. You keep up the good work, you get fat money. We like you and we want you CB'ing for us for the next five or six years at least.
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