VinceLambeauStarr
15 years ago
Hi folks,

Damn, the offseason feels all wrong. I WANT GAMETIME NOW!

Anyway, being the unlearned soul I am, I thought I would pose you all a question.

The topic is, compensatory skill when the physical is in decline.

An example would be Tauscher, who was never in shape but has great technique and leverage.

Or a reciever with great hands who is no longer a deep threat but an every down viable option/go to guy.

The position in question? Corner.

What skillset does an NFL caliber cornerback need if he didn't have great speed to begin with/is in the twlight of his career and his physical attributes are declining?

I know the safety positions are just as much about communication/game smarts, I just want to know if there is/can be skills to help older corners excel, without playing safety.

Is it one of those positions (Running Back comes to mind) that without great speed, the decline is rapid?

Thanks!
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Zero2Cool is my captain.
longtimefan
15 years ago
I think you look at Al Harris and he fits that?
Rockmolder
15 years ago
From what I've seen, the decling with CBs is pretty rapid. The only ones who keep on playing CB at a high level are the physical ones and the savvy guys.

You don't need your straigth end speed that often if you can jam and see what's coming in most cases. If you learn to watch the hip movement, the tendencies of WRs, how they line up etc, you have such a big advantage, especially if you can play press, as well, that you usually won't have to recover and don't need that 4.4 speed.

Like LTF said, Al Harris fits that mold perfectly. I think that he might run a high 4.6, low 4.7 if they time him now, but he's still one of the better CBs in the league.

Note that I've never played the position or anything, and this is most guessing work.
Pack93z
15 years ago
I am going to talk in general terms more so...

A great coach will always adjust his scheme to fit the players he has available... not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. They take the overall collection of players and tailor their playbook the that roster. Some players may not fit with the rest of the overall group.. but we will leave that to the side in this dis

Certain positions in football a coach can compensate around via scheme and some he cannot.

Hence why the "drop off" in play for certain positions seems very rapid and others seem very gradual in a relative nature.. there will always be an athlete that can distort the norm, but on average.. they will more often than not hold true.

A corner, you can utilize a zone or bump coverage with a rolled over safety to compensate for a lost step.

A receiver routes and sets can be shorted up to utilize their experience in running a quality route to cover for their loss of step.

A lineman hones his craft over the years... maximizing his efficiency and technique to make up for a half second lag in getting set up in pass protection or firing out in a run block... the coaching staff can keep a back, tight end or motion to help offset this as well.

But in the case of a running back.. once they have lost that burst through the hole or that extra gear... their isn't much a coaching staff can do to cover for it.. other than change the percentage of runs vs pass and maybe more rapidly developing plays.. but they can't mask that burst a player has to create yards on his own.. and backs by far have to create the most yards from scrimmage in a season...

Most of the time.. corners fall off fast because coaching staffs are unwilling to adjust to the player and the player is unwilling to admit they can't play the island by themselves any longer.. either they revert to a safety or drop into the slot receivers and less snaps a game.

My opinion from watching and studying the game for better part of three decades and how the game has changed over the years.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Dulak
15 years ago

I think you look at Al Harris and he fits that?

"longtimefan" wrote:



was thinking the same thing
(with that post I made 1st round draft pick 🙂
flep
15 years ago
I played corberback for 6 years.

I can definately say that you do lose speed as you get older but you make up for it with game smarts.

As I got older I always lined up on the inside of the receiver so he had to go through me on a slant in pattern.

My first line of focus on the snap was the o/l if they came forward I ignored the w/r and went for the ball carrier.

It's a massive learning curve of a game but with experience come smarts.
Formed Merseyside Nighthawks. British Champions 1992. Packer fan for 32 years
UserPostedImage


I feel very wrong now!!!!!!!!!
VinceLambeauStarr
15 years ago
🙂 Thanks guys

It gets me to thinking though, with corner being such a pivotal position on defense, should we address it in the upcoming draft or the next, I mean Harris/Woodson are pushing on, and shit a season can age someone real fast...Blackmon/Lee and untested, Bush should be cut - only Williams who is coming on nicely..
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Zero2Cool is my captain.
ILikeThePackers39
15 years ago
Physicality, savvy, and simple experience.

As has been stated, if you get a solid jam on the WR, his speed is neutralized, and you've messed up the timing on the route - advantage, CB.

Savvy and experience are also key - a guy like Al probably recognizes the majority of the offenses he faces at this point. If you know where the WR is going to go, you can set your angle accordingly and speed becomes less an issue.

As for how this applies to the Packers. IF you have decided that Pat Lee, Josh Bell, and Underwood can't get the job done (I would argue that you're rushing to judgement, but that's a different matter), then yes - they need to get some young talent in to develop. Williams is a good CB and has improved steadily, so you know he's there. Woody and Al are approaching their limits, though, so there is a need to develop something behind them.

My take: Bell, Lee and Underwood all have good upside and potential - Underwood's only entering his second season, after all. I think that more than one of these guys can certainly emerge and play well. I see Chuck being able to play at or near his current level for at least a couple seasons, and Al is likely at worst a very solid nickel back for the team this season and next. So you've got 3 very capable guys plus 3 more that can develop. That said, I wouldn't cry if they pick another one up in the draft, if for no other reason than to truly make Bush expendable.
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beast (11h) : Yeah, but also some of the wording suggestions Jax only pranked called the QB, not the others... and if he had an open spreadsheet & 3 calls
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Mucky Tundra (11h) : Cowboys 1st round pick Tyler Booker will indeed be bringing his pet turtle to Dallas with him
Mucky Tundra (12h) : that contained all prospects info and contact
Mucky Tundra (12h) : beast, according the Falcons statement Jax came across it on an ipad. If I had to guess, probably an open spread sheet or something
Zero2Cool (12h) : Simmons put up an emoji with cheese.
beast (12h) : Not sure anyone is interested in Isaiah Simmons... Collin Oliver might of taken his potential slot
beast (12h) : I'm going with Jax Ulbrich is not telling the whole truth... he accidentally came across it? Why would a defensive coordinator have a QB #?
Zero2Cool (13h) : He's not that great, but final piece of the script.\
Zero2Cool (13h) : If we add Isaiah Simmons, book your Super Bowl tickets
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Colts 1st round TE Tyler Warren also got prank called, was that Jax Ulbrich as well?
Zero2Cool (13h) : Jax Ulbrich, Jeff Ulbrich’s son, released an apology for his role in the Shedeur Sanders prank call.
Martha Careful (13h) : apparently he did not participate in practice or play on the east west shrine game nor the NFL combine. The kid was a mediocre spoiled brat
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Yeah that one that was a super wounded duck that Sanders supporters are highlighting to prove a point
Zero2Cool (14h) : Shough is the guy who missed guys at combine isn't he?
beast (15h) : It's not official until I'm dead! I have a chance still! (Not really)
Mucky Tundra (27-Apr) : I could feel my body decomposing in real time when I read that
Mucky Tundra (27-Apr) : @MIKEYSAINRISTIL Tyler Shough will officially be the last person drafted to the NFL born in the 1900’s
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : saw the tweet, he meant the city
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : Was that for the team or the city?
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 3m Draft grade is in: Green Bay gets an A. The people, the city, the venue were all superb. NFL Draft’s next
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matt LaFleur says Jaire Alexander is participating in #Packers offseason program, which has been conducted virtually during this first week
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : ✅ ...
buckeyepackfan (26-Apr) : Check
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matthew Golden cahanged 81 to 22??
TheKanataThrilla (26-Apr) : Sam Howell to Vikings...guess no Aaron
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : 1 round 7 min, with one extra minute if there is a trade. 2nd round 4 minutes, 3rd -3, 2 thereafter IMO
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Agree
dfosterf (26-Apr) : Great idea imo
dfosterf (26-Apr) : 1st round to 7 minutes with one extension
dfosterf (26-Apr) : NFL comissioner wants to shorten the 2st
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : @jalenreagors They’re discussing if Sheduer can go back to college on NFL Network LMFAOOOOO
beast (26-Apr) : Great point Martha
beast (26-Apr) : Buddy Ryan used to say if a candy bar goes missing, there are two to blame, Rex and Rob 🤪 jk 😁
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Bum Phillips used to say there are two ways to get better. Get better players or get players to play better. We have a new DL coach
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Yes. Look at the losses last year. They can win.
beast (26-Apr) : Can Packers win with their current DL?
bboystyle (26-Apr) : waiting for a pass rusher.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes between picks in the 3rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 3rd. Hate this phone
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 4rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes in the 4
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 7 minutes between picks in the 2nd round
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : Sorry to bitch, but the headline writers in that section absolutely mislead, or don't know how to read. It is maddening
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : No thanks. Not a dependable guy to be in the right place and run the right route. Dumb as a box of rocks.
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : Losing 2nd round pick for a one year rental, not ideal. Especially a headcase.
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Pickens for Jaire may be interesting. Definitely not sure we want Pickens long term.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : No.Absolutely not
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : NO NO NO NO NO NO!!1 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
dhazer (25-Apr) : scenario: Our main prospects are off the board when our pick comes around, do we just throw a 2nd round pick at Pittsburgh for Pickens
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