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ILikeThePackers39
Registered

14 years ago

And my reply is the short pass substitutes for the run. First downs keep opposing Os off the field and let your D rest. Your best shot is to make 7 yards on first down instead of 4, then the next two downs, you only have to make 3 yards. Bill Walsh knew this, and usually had crappy running teams as his Os were more designed for passing but his RBs were generally good receivers.

You can eat just as much clock by a short passing game as you can with a running game. It's all about first down after first down. That's how you rest your D. It also frustrates opposing Ds and ruins their morale.

Now my primary concern with the OL is Aaron's health.

For the record, I'm not totally against the run. I sometimes exaggerate to make a point, but I make it obvious that I'm exaggerating. What I was mocking was Mike McCarthy's insistence that there had to be a balanced number of run vs pass plays. Screw that. Do what you're good at.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Your arguments are sound. But as a one-time halfback I'm compelled to argue on one point - a point that to me is paramount.

Attitude.

Short passing game can certainly replace the run, in terms of functionality. It can get you those 5-7 yards on first down, yep. But it's so... finesse. For all the charms and effectiveness, you lack that deflating inevitability that, even though the opposing team knows what you're going to do, they can't stop it. Going in, their D personnel know they're going to get beat to shit, just flat run-over - I think of the Badgers back in Dayne's time, just consistently flattening the opposition, I think of how utterly defeated they all were.

Now, I'm no fool - I know the Packers aren't that kind of team and won't be. No point in that when you've got a great QB and receivers, and when your line isn't of the road grading variety. But I do think there's a place for the run - we've got a big strong RB who likes contact, if nothing else. I can see where you're coming from, but I for one will be a little sad if the run game isn't a strong component of the offensive gameplan.

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zombieslayer
Registered

14 years ago

#52

Oh, Grant will be a part of the game plan. Make no mistake about it. I sometimes exaggerate to make a point, but I try to make it clear I'm exaggerating.

Grant got us 1200+ yards, 11 TDs, a 4.4 average, and only fumbled once. Yes, once. I think in '09, Mike McCarthy used him about the right amount.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

warhawk
Senior Member

14 years ago

#53

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Considering the damage our passing attack does to defenses I think the overall balance was just about right. You got to get the ball in Finley's, Jennings, and Drivers hands.

No defense wants to see the Green Bay Packers and the running game only plays a small part in that. If we want a better run game you have to commit to that and considering the makeup of this team I think that would be a mistake.

The Vikings couldn't have gotten where they did had they stayed committed to the run and they had Peterson and a better line than us. Had they not had Favre and the receivers they have they never get as far as the did.

"The train is leaving the station."

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

14 years ago

#54

warhawk, you're great, but I have to disagree. If Peterson didn't fumble as often and they were more committed the run, I firmly believe they would have went just as far, if not more. Teams get worn out when you run over them, not pass over them. A good running game keeps the defense on the field and offense off.

warhawk
Senior Member

14 years ago

#55

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Then why is it so that the teams over the last several years that have made it to the SB have all been statistically at the top of the charts throwing the ball?

For every great running attack that makes it to a SB there are 10 great passing teams with an awesome QB. It's just the way it is.

The New York Giants made it a couple of years ago and everyone will agree it was when Manning caught fire and went on a streak he never had before or since. It wasn't they're run game that got them there that year. I mean it helped don't get me wrong but Manning catching fire is what put them in.

Just an example. Similar to how the Vikes got as far as they did this year.

"The train is leaving the station."

zombieslayer
Registered

14 years ago

#56

Vikings would have lost at least 3 or 4 more games last year without Favre. Today's NFL is all about the pass. You can have "who?" as your RB, but you better have at least a decent QB in there if you want to win it all. I'm making up this statistic on the fly, but winning the SB is probably close to something like 60% D, 30% passing game, 10% running game.

Alright. Stat time. It's been too long for me not to argue without stats.
D = defensive rank of SB winner in terms of Points Allowed
P = passing rank of SB winner in terms of yards
R = rushing rank of SB winner in terms of yards

Year     D   P   R
2009    20  4   6
2008     1  17  23
2007    17  21  4
2006    23   2  18
2005    3    24  5
2004    2    11   7
2003    1    9    27
2002    1    15  27
2001    6    22  13
2000    1    22   5
1999    4     1   5

Heh. Screw it. The stats are all over the place.

I guess just win games any way you can. The Saints won it all last year by being aggressive almost to the point of insanity. Their D wasn't that great, but their O couldn't be stopped.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

earthquake
Member

14 years ago

#57

Fantastic signings today. I sure am glad to see Ted put money into quality players who have proven to play well with the packers and in the packer's system. This sure beats throwing boatloads of risky money at overrated, average free agents.

I'll let the people who understand it a bit better argue the specifics of the contracts, but i will say i am damn glad to see Clifton, Collins and Picket signed without issue.

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Pack93z
Select Member

14 years ago

#58

Well... lets do just a tiny bit of relative math.. we have ponied up..

7 Million for Clifton.. this year.

14 Million for Collins.. this year.

10 Million for Pickett. this year.

All hard cash spent this year... and we wonder why we have been quite in FA.

We instead have utilized the non capped year to front load contracts with cash flow now... that is brilliant.

Comes with risk as well.. meaning we expect these players to finish out their contracts in at the same level of pay to realize the overall value of the deal for us... if we keep frontloading deals when the cap returns.. you can certainly guarantee that players will start knocking on our doors... because we are giving the overall leverage of the deal to them.

Anyway... we can put to rest why we have been quiet.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Dulak
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#59

"pack93z" wrote:

I agree - I thought chicago paid alot for peppers ... but seeing us throw the dough around here... starting to think otherwise

Pack93z
Select Member

14 years ago

#60

The thing though is... the Bears are on the hook for about twice that for a single player.. they can tout all they want they could bail on the deal after one year.. but as the details slowly sink in.. they are married to the guy for basically three year.. or at least the damage will last three years.

For a guy with motivational issues... we have never heard that type of complaint about any of these three.. hell Cliffy has basically sold his body out to keep playing this long.. the Sapp hit.. surgery after surgery... guy lives and breathes football..

Peppers... some question why he plays... one former teammate even offered something to the fact of if he liked football imagine what he could do... that isn't someone I sell my franchise out for.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

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Fan Shout

Mucky Tundra (11h) : Greg Gumbel passed away today after bout with cancer.

buckeyepackfan (16h) : 1 NFC South @ NFC West @ AFC West other 3 games,

buckeyepackfan (16h) : Packers play NFC East and AFC North in 2025, plus 2 other games

Mucky Tundra (18h) : Geeze Zero get it right!😋

Zero2Cool (19h) : I guess 3 games. Whatever

Zero2Cool (19h) : Bleh, that only impacts two games.

Zero2Cool (19h) : Packers are gonna get 3rd place division schedule next year.

Mucky Tundra (20h) : Kanata, seek help! lol

beast (22h) : I was rooting for the Bears to win and hurt their draft pick status

Zero2Cool (23h) : Forgot there was even a game last night haha

TheKanataThrilla (23h) : That was terrible.

TheKanataThrilla (23h) : Watching that game in its entirety yesterday is proof positive that I am a football addict.

beast (23h) : And horrible time management multiple times... and not being able to score more than 3 points on a team with talent

beast (23h) : Realizing the Bears didn't fix it from the previous week and do the same thing, getting the game to overtime

beast (23h) : They probably are not tanking, but they've absolutely mismanagement some things, such as Vikings seeing the Packers blocked FG and realizing

Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : Crazy of Bears to have that mindset that is

Zero2Cool (27-Dec) : Hail Mary stop away from 5 - 2. Not sure how that flips to tanking. Crazy mindset if true

beast (27-Dec) : I've quietly questioned if Bears are tanking on purpose... they suddenly got a lot worse with some simple concepts like 101 clock management

wpr (27-Dec) : Watching bares fans melt down over how putrid their team is, so enjoyable. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

Mucky Tundra (27-Dec) : The Seattle Seahawks defeat the Chicago Bears 6-3. Jason Myers had 6 RBIs for Seattle while Cairo Santos had 3 RBI for Chicago

beast (27-Dec) : Not nessarily, he might of been injured either way. He's playing about 50% of the games the last 4 years

Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : If they'd been more patient with him, he'd be back already. Putting him out there vs Bears caused him to tweak it and here we are.

packerfanoutwest (26-Dec) : well this is his last season with the PAck, book it

beast (26-Dec) : Sounds like no Alexander (again), I'm wondering if his time with the Packers is done

Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.

Mucky Tundra (26-Dec) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore

packerfanoutwest (25-Dec) : Feliz Navidad!

Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!

beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁

beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won

Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???

Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

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