British
15 years ago

I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see a trade this offseason - odd as that sounds, the uncapped year and associated retention of guys who would otherwise be UFA seems to have opened up the trade routes a little. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Thompson had at least talked to teams like the Saints, just to see what they'd take for a Bushrod (or if they think he's the future, a Jammal Brown) - being tendered second round doesn't mean they wouldn't take something lower.

Beyond that, I'm with Porky and Rockmolder - not to say Thompson sucks because he doesn't make bigger moves in FA, but there are times that it at least appears he's not exhausting all possible avenues when improving the team. Dude's done a damn good job so far, with the glaring exception of the offensive line - why not recognize that you haven't drafted terribly well at that position and try something different?

Believe me - overall, I'm not one of those fans who cries his way through the early offseason yelling "Why didn't Ted pick up Peppers and T.O.?!" I'm quite glad we don't have to deal with that crap (and my Bears fan friends aren't even a little convinced all those signings will help, for the record). It's the almost total lack of any activity that bothers me a little - especially when you have to think a tackle-heavy team like the Saints would be willing to talk.

**Edited to add: On the specific topic of Porter, I don't know what folks are smoking - if you're going to take on "risk", there'd better be production to match it, and dude hasn't produced like that in years. IMO, Porter would be a weak play. Switch Rock's scenario to drafting a rush LB and working a trade for someone like Bushrod and I think he's got a point. Trying to draft the LT and picking up Porter seems like a poor play to me.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



I appear to have become a Ted Thompson apologist which isn't my intention. But I can't help myself on this subject.

How do you know Ted Thompson hasn't been on the phone to other teams? Ted Thompson is known to be one of the most secretive GM in the league, you think just because you don't know about it nothing is happening? That's crazy.

And as for recent seasons, which free agent did people want us to sign and still wish we had. I was pretty high on Chris Canty last year but then we drafted Raji, Jolly turned into a stud and and we had the #1 rushing D, while the Giants under performed.
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Pack93z
15 years ago
The cake isn't done until it is fully baked... ;)

We are five... I repeat five days into the season... I know... past history says that we aren't or haven't been overly active in most of the past off seasons... but we have in one.

06' we were very active... so one can't say with a definite stance that we will sit on the sidelines this FA season.

IMO... you have to have a match to sign a free agent to your club.. and those factors shouldn't be just the amount on the pay stub. Sure there are the mercenaries that hop where the biggest dollar sign is... but the guys that you want more so on your club are looking deeper than just the money. Any doubts.. read all the factors in how Kampman made his decision.

Every year we bark about not being active.. and every year we find out after the fact that we indeed where active after all.. names like Arrington, Moss, Canty, and Burnett surface that were in contact with the Packers...

Look... I am very critical about how little we the fans get to hear about these types of information from Thompson.. I enjoyed the Wolf style of streaming information a little better... but it is how Thompson does business.. and now that we are a couple years into his leadership and we hear information after the fact.. I have confidence that we are having the discussions behind closed doors.

Thompson isn't one to do the "rah rah" pump up the fan base through the media to the fans... instead he is measured in this approach and more often than not has made solid decisions.. they may not all pan out.. but the process of making the decisions seem very sound.

I present the Clifton signing this offseason as an example.. the Packers allowed him to test the waters.. but kept in constant contact with Chad.. he made his trip to Washington... more than likely got an offer there.. came back to the table with the Packers and worked out a overall fair deal for both sides.. we hear the Packers were at 5mil a season.. Chad was at 7 mil a season.. we ended up at 6.8 mil but almost all of the guaranteed money was in this year... so we moved and he gave in some long term security.. by the way.. the per game bonus might seem meager.. but it was a stroke of brilliance on our part.

And we heard not an ounce of that during the process.. not a peep... it seemed clear that Clifton was a Redskin.

Reality is... I am very positive that we are working the phones with the agents of players that may be a match to us... but it is very clear that business with the Packers is hush operation.. that we have clarity on.. been almost 100% consistent in that nature.

It is difficult for us the fan base to sit through... especially a guy like me that loves this side of the business almost as much as the game itself.

But Thompson has earned my trust in his tenure.. I won't apologize for him.. I at times criticize his plodding approach and some of his decisions.. but at the end of the day... I have grown to trust his judgment and decision making process.

That does not mean that he is above being questioned or criticism... it doesn't mean we can't talk about whom we would like or our needs.. it is just that I for one would rather be safe than sorry in the FA game when it comes to mega contracts.

It isn't impulse based.. but in this NFL landscape that probably is a blessing.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
ILikeThePackers39
15 years ago

I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see a trade this offseason - odd as that sounds, the uncapped year and associated retention of guys who would otherwise be UFA seems to have opened up the trade routes a little. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Thompson had at least talked to teams like the Saints, just to see what they'd take for a Bushrod (or if they think he's the future, a Jammal Brown) - being tendered second round doesn't mean they wouldn't take something lower.

Beyond that, I'm with Porky and Rockmolder - not to say Thompson sucks because he doesn't make bigger moves in FA, but there are times that it at least appears he's not exhausting all possible avenues when improving the team. Dude's done a damn good job so far, with the glaring exception of the offensive line - why not recognize that you haven't drafted terribly well at that position and try something different?

Believe me - overall, I'm not one of those fans who cries his way through the early offseason yelling "Why didn't Ted pick up Peppers and T.O.?!" I'm quite glad we don't have to deal with that crap (and my Bears fan friends aren't even a little convinced all those signings will help, for the record). It's the almost total lack of any activity that bothers me a little - especially when you have to think a tackle-heavy team like the Saints would be willing to talk.

**Edited to add: On the specific topic of Porter, I don't know what folks are smoking - if you're going to take on "risk", there'd better be production to match it, and dude hasn't produced like that in years. IMO, Porter would be a weak play. Switch Rock's scenario to drafting a rush LB and working a trade for someone like Bushrod and I think he's got a point. Trying to draft the LT and picking up Porter seems like a poor play to me.

"British" wrote:



I appear to have become a Ted Thompson apologist which isn't my intention. But I can't help myself on this subject.

How do you know Ted Thompson hasn't been on the phone to other teams? Ted Thompson is known to be one of the most secretive GM in the league, you think just because you don't know about it nothing is happening? That's crazy.

And as for recent seasons, which free agent did people want us to sign and still wish we had. I was pretty high on Chris Canty last year but then we drafted Raji, Jolly turned into a stud and and we had the #1 rushing D, while the Giants under performed.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




I have no issues with previous seasons - there were guys I thought they should sign, but as events played out it became clear it wasn't necessary (I'll go with Olshansky and Canty from last year - as it turns out, Raji was a good draft-get, and the rest of the D line stood tall). My complaint - and in a moment I'll try to illustrate how small this complaint is - stems entirely from this offseason and this offseason's most glaring need.

Again, I made a point to emphasize that it appears Thompson's not doing anything. I didn't say that I know he hasn't been on the phone - I don't know anything of the sort. I'm not saying "Fire Thompson, he won't do anything", and in fact I suspect (as also stated above) that he may well be looking into trades or the like. Very few people are truly complaining, here - a critique that perhaps the guy could be more active in the offseason is hardly an indictment of his GM abilities.

But, dudes. It's the offseason, and we're Packers fans - we have nothing to do but chuck out conjecture about what Thompson may or may not do, because he does precious little. This isn't some groundswell of bad sentiment, it's fans killing time because we don't have anything else to discuss (other than years-old debates about QBs who no longer play in Green Bay). Would you rather we just shut up?
blank
British
15 years ago
Fair point, I'm not trying to shut up people who have a different opinion, just trying to stem the tide of free agency moaning by pointing out some oft forgotten facts.

Debate and opinon is what sites like this are all about, but not every opinion is as useful as the next, and that's why we debate this stuff 🙂
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porky88
15 years ago

So what do you want him to do?

Take risky deals or take deals that work out?

He could have signed Pickett and Chillar at the start of free agency to 'risky' high priced contracts. They would have then been seen as 'aggressive' moves that 'paid off'. The fact he got them for good value just shows he knows what he's doing.

A GM shouldnt be judged on how many risky moves he makes but on how many of the moves he makes are successful.

Al Davis and Daniel Snyder make risky moves in free agency and they are morons.

How many blockbuster 'risky'free agents have been signed in the league since Ted Thompson was Packers GM and gone on to live up to the hype?

"British" wrote:



First off, I think Ted Thompson has done a fine job as GM. A solid B in my opinion. Not many teams have what the Packers have and that's a strong front office that is good at what they do.

I'm also not advocating for Daniel Snyder and Al Davis type of moves. That's ridiculous. Snyder signed three guys to terrible contracts last year. Albert Haynesworth, DeAnelo Hall, and Derrick Dockery. Davis does several a year. The Javon Walker deal was ridiculous. This isn't what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a once in a while an opportunity presents itself where you might have to take a risk on a player in free agency or even a trade. Randy Moss was that type of risk. Charles Woodson was also that type of risk.

You may have to overpay in terms of the contract, but that's the nature of the league right now. Overpaying today is underpaying a year from that respective date anyways. It's always changing and getting more expensive.

What player would I like see the Packers roll the dice on?

Shawn Merrimen comes to mind as I think he can be had for a 2nd round pick or a deal similar but maybe a little better than what San Diego got for Antonio Cromartie. This to me is a risky move, but one that would pay off. I understand people's views in saying that it's too risky, but the same was said about Woodson. If you miss, the salary structure is strong enough that it wouldn't set the team back. If you hit, you're an even more dangerous team. Quite frankly, I think GB is a pass rusher and a young LT away from being an elite team year in a year out so with that in mind, I'd explore that idea.
British
15 years ago
http://www.cbssports.com/print/nfl/story/13034066/wisdom-in-washington-skins-finally-get-smart?tag=button-bar;btn-print 

I never thought I'd repeat these words during this or any other free-agency period, but now I can't help myself: Let's hear it for the Washington Redskins. They've done the unthinkable, the unimaginable and the damn-near-impossible when it comes to free-agent spending.

They have done nothing ... unless, of course, you count Artis Hicks.

They didn't shell out a gazillion dollars for defensive end Julius Peppers. Chicago did. They didn't take a chance on Aaron Kampman and his surgically repaired knee. Jacksonville did. They didn't back up the Brink's truck for cornerback Dunta Robinson or linebacker Karlos Dansby. Atlanta and Miami did. And they didn't make Antrel Rolle the highest-paid safety in the league. The New York Giants did.

Nope, the Redskins sat this dance out, concentrating more on signing their own players, and congratulations, Mike Shanahan. Somehow, some way, the Redskins' new head coach convinced owner Daniel Snyder that spending big doesn't necessarily mean winning big, and I call Albert Haynesworth as my first witness.

Haynesworth was the most decorated and lucrative player in last year's free-agent market, and Washington made him the wealthiest one, too -- shelling out more than $40 million in guaranteed money to get him away from Tennessee.

In Haynesworth, the Redskins believed they had one of the league's premier defensive players -- and they did, only when he played for Tennessee. In Washington he was difficult to notice, missing a quarter of the games, finishing with four sacks and failing to live up to his reputation as an impact player.

In short, he was a disappointment, and there was a lesson there for Shanahan.

Only he could've pointed to this year's Super Bowl participants, too. Indianapolis didn't make a big free-agent splash last season, but then the Colts never do. And New Orleans? The Saints' biggest offseason pickup was safety Darren Sharper, and, no question, he made a difference -- a big difference. But the Saints didn't spend a zillion dollars on him and didn't sign him to a long-term contract. Instead, it was a one-year deal for $1.7 million, and they didn't do it until nearly three weeks into free agency.

Which means they got a player nobody else wanted.


Sometimes that's how it goes, and maybe, just maybe, the message has sunk in around the Capital Beltway. Instead of jumping into the free-agent market, sometimes it's better to wait out the opening salvoes, identify the players who fit your club, then sort through the second tier to sign the right ones.

Washington tried a hands-off approach in 2008, and it seemed to pay off -- with the club winning six of its first eight under new head coach Jim Zorn. OK, so the Redskins wound up a disappointing 8-8. It still tied for the team's third-best finish of the decade.

Nevertheless, the message was lost on Snyder, who a year later tried to spend his way to the top and wound up at the bottom of the NFC East.

Don't tell me you're surprised. This is the guy who signed Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders and Mark Carrier and got next to nothing from them. This is also the owner who made Adam Archuleta then the highest-paid safety, then watched him move down the depth chart before his release. He paid the big bucks for Antwaan Randle El. He paid more big bucks for Laveranues Coles. And he took out a second mortgage on Haynesworth.

Anyway, I think you get the idea. Spending big never translated to winning big, with Washington 70-90 the past 10 seasons, including a 30-34 run under Hall of Fame coach Joe Gibbs. Something had to give, and something just did.

First, Shanahan cut 10 veterans, including Randle El. Then he passed on the big free-agent names, preferring to sign offensive linemen like his own Casey Rabach and Mike Williams, as well as Hicks. Smart.

Now he reportedly has a visit scheduled with free-agent Antonio Bryant, which makes sense when you consider that Bryant's best season was 2008 when Bruce Allen, now the Redskins' general manager, was with Tampa Bay. Bryant isn't the biggest name on the wide-receiver market; Terrell Owens is. But the Redskins aren't interested in Owens.

Hallelujah.

At some point, Washington will understand the surest way to the top is through the draft, not free agency, with the Redskins taking big strides the last couple of years with draft picks like Fred Davis and Brian Orakpo and Chris Horton. But they've taken big strides the last few days, too, resisting the temptation to spend wildly to sit back and wait for the right guy to come along.

When the Redskins hired Shanahan, people wondered how long it would take before he would make a difference. I think we just got our answer.


UserPostedImage
Rockmolder
15 years ago
Brees, Shockey, Vilma, Greer, Sharper. Those are 5 of the risky signings/trades the Saints made prior to going to the SB. They're all starters and are all on the team right now.

I'm seeing signing like Fujita more as something of a Brandon Chillar-type.

I'm not saying that we should overpay grossly or jump into FA, handing out all kinds of ridiculous money like the Bears are doing, but eventually, you're going to have to finish a team through FA. You can get it close by drafting, mainly BPA, like we are now. Eventually, you'll have to patch up a hole with a FA, before another hole opens up the very next year.
Pack93z
15 years ago

Brees, Shockey, Vilma, Greer, Sharper. Those are 5 of the risky signings/trades the Saints made prior to going to the SB. They're all starters and are all on the team right now.

I'm seeing signing like Fujita more as something of a Brandon Chillar-type.

I'm not saying that we should overpay grossly or jump into FA, handing out all kinds of ridiculous money like the Bears are doing, but eventually, you're going to have to finish a team through FA. You can get it close by drafting, mainly BPA, like we are now. Eventually, you'll have to patch up a hole with a FA, before another hole opens up the very next year.

"Rockmolder" wrote:




They only took two real risks in that group..

Shockey and Brees... but on Brees they protected themselves with a one year out if he couldn't get past his injury. Compare that to the Woodson deal.

Vilma was a out and out steal for what they gave up for him.

Now compare that to our team last season... we have added Woodson, Pickett, Lee, Grant, and Chillar that had major impacts on the 09 season.

I fail to see how those are drastically different... Woodson's D-MVP carries alot of weight in my opinion.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Rockmolder
15 years ago

Brees, Shockey, Vilma, Greer, Sharper. Those are 5 of the risky signings/trades the Saints made prior to going to the SB. They're all starters and are all on the team right now.

I'm seeing signing like Fujita more as something of a Brandon Chillar-type.

I'm not saying that we should overpay grossly or jump into FA, handing out all kinds of ridiculous money like the Bears are doing, but eventually, you're going to have to finish a team through FA. You can get it close by drafting, mainly BPA, like we are now. Eventually, you'll have to patch up a hole with a FA, before another hole opens up the very next year.

"pack93z" wrote:




They only took two real risks in that group..

Shockey and Brees... but on Brees they protected themselves with a one year out if he couldn't get past his injury. Compare that to the Woodson deal.

Vilma was a out and out steal for what they gave up for him.

Now compare that to our team last season... we have added Woodson, Pickett, Lee, Grant, and Chillar that had major impacts on the 09 season.

I fail to see how those are drastically different... Woodson's D-MVP carries alot of weight in my opinion.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Maybe that's the problem here. The difference on what is a risky pick. If guys are left out there for quite a while, they turn into risky picks for me. Sharper wasn't exactly lighting it up in Minnesota. You know he'd want to start if you'd sign him, but you don't know how much he has left in the tank.

I see Porter as a pretty risky signing right now. He can screw over your locker room quite bad. He can be the guy who closes the gap between good and great in our passing defense, though.
Pack93z
15 years ago


Maybe that's the problem here. The difference on what is a risky pick. If guys are left out there for quite a while, they turn into risky picks for me. Sharper wasn't exactly lighting it up in Minnesota. You know he'd want to start if you'd sign him, but you don't know how much he has left in the tank.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



See and I see Sharper as low risk... he was picked up late when the team held the leverage on the deal and he signed a one year deal..

He happened to be a low risk/high reward signing in my view.

Now if we could only figure out how to find out the rewards at the time of inking them.. in this case, the Saints might have offered an option year and a fair price when they had the leverage.. now Sharper coming off a big year thinks he has more leverage.. as the days pass.. it is slipping mightily.

To me.. there is way more involved than just signing them to a deal.. it is total cost (including dead money if they flop), total cap (normal years), benefit to club, impact of the roster makeup going forward and length of deal.
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