Porforis
15 years ago


I think that's an idiotic investment to make. Any company whose fiscal decisions are strictly regulated by the government (80% of premiums have to go to medical care, 85% in some cases) without leeway is not a company that is dynamic, flexible, and capable of long-term growth.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Ah, but don't confuse a good company with a good investment!

"Porforis" wrote:



In this case, potentially a good short-term investment, but there's a LOT of risk there.
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Actually, this healthcare reform plan will be a windfall for insurance companies. They are vastly expanding their guaranteed customer base, as employers will now have to provide coverage to more employees, while drastically reducing the costs they have to pay to healthcare providers.

My prediction is that we're going to see the emergence of a two-tiered system, in which the vast majority of customers are covered at the bare minimum required by law, with procedures now considered routine only being covered under premium plans (much like dental coverage is now). While I don't think that rationing will be written into the government regulations themselves, I think it will be the healthcare providers themselves who start rationing services. For example, there are no dentists in the La Crosse area who will take the state-sponsored dental insurance for anything except emergencies, because the payouts are so low that they don't even cover expenses, much less pay a profit. With the low payouts being proposed by this plan, I foresee the same thing happening with regular healthcare. Oh, sure, you'll be able to see a doctor at will, but the care you'll actually receive in any given visit will become increasingly minimalistic. Gone will be the days of trying to rule out brain tumors for chronic headaches -- you'll receive a bottle of ibuprofen and be sent home. If you want to receive anywhere close to the level of routine care you're accustomed to, you'll have to buy the premium rider, which will represent a significant out-of-pocket expense.

Another effect of a plan like this will be to darken the face of medicine. Already 70% of doctors taking the USMLE (medical licensing boards) in this country are foreign born, but a lot of those people complete their residencies here and then return to their homelands. With the inevitable suppression of healthcare provider salaries that will ensue from this plan, I think we're going to see a migration out of medicine, leaving a lot of openings for these foreign nationals who might otherwise have returned to their own countries.

Not that this is anything new, of course. Healthcare salaries have been steadily declining not only in real dollars but also in inflation-adjusted dollars for at least a decade and probably longer. A major driver behind this trend has been the massive Medicare/Medicaid reforms that Clinton pushed through Congress in 1998, which significantly reduced federal expenses and helped him to balance the budget. It's not a coincidence that the rise in healthcare costs in this country accelerated immediately after 1998. These reforms significantly reduced Medicare/Medicaid payouts to healthcare providers, forcing hospitals and clinics to drastically raise prices on everyone else to compensate.

Now, with almost everyone on the equivalent of Medicaid coverage, hospitals and clinics will have no alternative but to reduce services and further reduce salaries. When you compare the salaries of physicians today to the equivalent salaries in the 1960s, they're down by almost 50% (in absolute numbers) in many specialties. Now part of this is because specialties like cardiology have moved increasingly away from invasive procedures and thus cannot charge as much anymore, but the reduction in payouts has also played a major role. Many medical schools are now paying people to go into specialties like neurology if students will contract to stay in the field a certain length of time, because there is currently such a mass exodus out of those fields. It's partly because of declining job satisfaction (long hours, little freedom), partly because of rising malpractice costs, and partly because of depressed salaries. In a lot of hospitals now, physicians are paid minimal salaries, with the majority of their pay coming from billable hours, which has lead to doctors being treated essentially like assembly lines, with patients hardly receiving any true face-to-face time with patients.

People like to say that doctors make too much, but how many of them are willing to put in the long years of schooling required, years in which you have virtually no life, years in which you skip meals just so you can get in enough study time to pass your weekly tests, years of working up to 100 hours/week as a resident for less pay than a construction worker? If salaries continue to decline, how many people will be willing to make the sacrifice required? Before anyone accuses me of being paranoid or sensationalistic, let me point out that doctors across Germany, which has a socialized system of medicine, are currently contemplating a mass strike because they believe their salaries are too low when compared to the rest of the world. If it can happen there, it can certainly happen here.

So yes, there may come a day when doctors no longer make those outlandish salaries so many Americans like to complain about, but it's probable that when that day comes, you'll hardly be able to understand a word those doctors say.

But hey, those insurance companies will be making more money than ever before -- only now they'll have a government-guaranteed income.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Obama is doing a lot of great things. I'm glad he's our President.
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Cheesey
15 years ago
Who wonders how many of these people voting for government health care are actually going to make tons of money off of it?
And of course these "politicians" won't have to put themselves or their families on the government health plan. So what the hell do THEY care if it screws us up? They will be filling their pockets and their families will be safe.
It's like AL Gore, who owns a hunk of "Hara", the environmental company that will make a TON of money off of global warming. His pockets will be filled, so what does he care who will lost jobs because of it?
Want answers to everything?
Follow the money.
Thats what government health care is. Government is in our pockets for everything else. They want their hunk of healthcare money too.
Then they can screw it up, just like they have with medicare.
Think we can trust THEM running our healthcare? Look at MEDICARE!
If they just went after Medicare fraud they could save billions. But they don't actively go after it. So it just keeps getting abused.
I don't trust government with my healthcare.
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Formo
15 years ago


People like to say that doctors make too much, but how many of them are willing to put in the long years of schooling required, years in which you have virtually no life, years in which you skip meals just so you can get in enough study time to pass your weekly tests, years of working up to 100 hours/week as a resident for less pay than a construction worker? If salaries continue to decline, how many people will be willing to make the sacrifice required? Before anyone accuses me of being paranoid or sensationalistic, let me point out that doctors across Germany, which has a socialized system of medicine, are currently contemplating a mass strike because they believe their salaries are too low when compared to the rest of the world. If it can happen there, it can certainly happen here.

So yes, there may come a day when doctors no longer make those outlandish salaries so many Americans like to complain about, but it's probable that when that day comes, you'll hardly be able to understand a word those doctors say.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Anyone who wants to tell me that 'doctors make too much money' to my face, I'll knock their fucking teeth out. For the reasons you explained above. How many years of schooling? How much debt is accrued thanks to the schooling? How many hours a week do they put in and for how long after they got their MD? I knew a guy that went to college to become a doctor.. He got his biology degree at the UofM, and was accepted to UNC's medical school (don't recall the correct name ATM).. Before accepting, he interviewed a handful of doctors that ran their own practices. All but one were divorced. And the other one was in the process of a divorce. They had lots of money, but almost zero time. I'm not saying that every person that becomes a doctor will never have a family life.. but the odds are stacked against them. I'm not saying that ever doctor has almost zero time.. But the odds are stacked against them. Back to my friend.. He decided not to go through with being a doctor. Smart move, if you ask me. If he had, I would have never met him.

Anyway.. The only people that bitch about doctors having too much money are the people that are too damn lazy to do anything about their own finances and just want a hand out.

Doctors earn every damn penny they make, if you ask me.
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Formo
15 years ago

Obama is doing a lot of great things. I'm glad he's our President.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



:pukeright:

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.. šŸ™‚
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IronMan
15 years ago

every person who faked workmans comp claims, & every person who went to the emergency room for a paper cut are to blame for the disaster the medical insurance in the u.s.a.

"4PackGirl" wrote:


+1

I work with several people that go to the doctor every time they get the common cold, just so they can get a doctors excuse to miss work. Its infuriating.

Go to Walgreen's, get some Nyquil, and fucking deal with it.
Formo
15 years ago

every person who faked workmans comp claims, & every person who went to the emergency room for a paper cut are to blame for the disaster the medical insurance in the u.s.a.

"IronMan" wrote:


+1

I work with several people that go to the doctor every time they get the common cold, just so they can get a doctors excuse to miss work. Its infuriating.

Go to Walgreen's, get some Nyquil, and fucking deal with it.

"4PackGirl" wrote:



Amen, man!

I don't even buy over the counter stuff.. Unless I have a wicked mean flu/fever. I just pop whatever Tylenol/cold meds we have in our cabinet and deal. Typically, I get REALLY sick once every 1-2 years.. and it only lasts for a day or two. So that's when I buy any sort of over the counter stuff. And when I overcome the illness, I have leftovers for the next 2 years or so.

I tend to be a pretty cheap fix.
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IronMan
15 years ago
Also, I think people bitch way too much about the President, regardless if he is a Democrat or Republican. One of my favorite quotes of all time, is:

"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."

A. freaking. men.

Like 4PackGirl said, our health care is all out of whack because people take advantage of it.

And if O'Bama is such a dumbass, then doesn't that mean Bush is a dumbass too? He certainly didn't fix anything.

You can't fix lazy and stupid, which the majority of Americans are.
Formo
15 years ago

Also, I think people bitch way too much about the President, regardless if he is a Democrat or Republican. One of my favorite quotes of all time, is:

"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."

A. freaking. men.

Like 4PackGirl said, our health care is all out of whack because people take advantage of it.

And if O'Bama is such a dumbass, then doesn't that mean Bush is a dumbass too? He certainly didn't fix anything.

Why? Because you can't fix lazy and stupid, which the majority of Americans are.

"IronMan" wrote:



People bitch about the president because of two things: 1) He wasn't who the person voted for, or 2) Because he broke his campaign promises.

Some of that has to do with which political party he represents.. but not always.

No one here mentioned Bush. And I thought it was the popular thing to bash Bush for his 'stupidity' for the past 9 years? It's old.

Last statement is pretty damn true. Although I'll contest that you can fix lazy... but you can't make someone else want to fix lazy. Stupid.. No, you can't fix that.
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