Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago



I know for a fact that the Yankees have one station affiliate in Arkansas.

That is some serious market penetration.

"dfosterf" wrote:



No, they just got that in the trade that sent Hillary to the US Senate.

:)
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
wpr
  • wpr
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15 years ago



I know for a fact that the Yankees have one station affiliate in Arkansas.

That is some serious market penetration.

"Wade" wrote:



No, they just got that in the trade that sent Hillary to the US Senate.

:)

"dfosterf" wrote:



+1 Wade.

See the fallacy to higher ticket prices is that I or other ticket holders will stop buying them. I won't. I just won't attend the games. I will sell them to a broker and pocket the cash.
The waiting list will be just as long as it is now. More people without season tickets will attend the game but in the long run, they are the ones who will be shelling out more money not me.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
15 years ago
You are somewhat missing the point, Wayne.

You are thinking as a season ticket holder.

I feel your pain, (passion?) but my attempt is to look at it from the front office perspective.

As of right now, I don't think they really care what you do with your ticket. I don't know if they would care if they doubled the price. I would submit that they would be absolutely thrilled with a concept of doubled ticket prices and the waiting list doesn't go down.

Getting back to some more "market" generalities

Not building a bigger Lambeau

That has a value and a price. Ticketholders should pay that price.

It is part of the "experience", and kept potential revenue out of the hands of the organization.

I'd call it a masterpiece, but it ain't free, friends.

RFK was awesome. It rocked. Fans loved it. They had a waiting list like Lambeau. Fed EX field is huge in comparison.

It's a GD concrete canyon. The fans (comparatively) hate it.

Revenue skyrocketed. There is still a waiting list. Will not even get into the almost 7 million mostly economically comfortable fanbase (think your tax dollars, recession-proof, high tech, DOD/gov't jobs)

It's called Lambeau field.

That's part of the product. That ain't free, either. It's part of the experience. Ticketholders must pay. It isn't called Green Bay asswipe (they have papermills still, yes?) Arena, or Wisconsin Sargento Stadium, or whatever else crappy corporate name we would have to suck up because the sponsor's kid likes it.

Just pointing out that there are economic forces behind getting, not getting, etc. FA's--the attractiveness of a GB to a FA, retaining the players we have.

Ted Thompson All conference in academics...Business Administration...hmmm
wpr
  • wpr
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15 years ago
I hear you DF and I went off on a tangent. There have been a few posts in the past week that advocate insanely higher ticket prices would shrink the pool and they could then move up the list.

And I just wanted to point out that by and large it won't work. As long as they are allowed to resell the tickets the current group will still hang on to them.

If I don't want mine I have a cousin (I think the current set allows me to pass on to my family down to the 1st cousin level.) He is single. He has a great paying job so many is not an object, he could take them in a heart beat. I am sure other ticket holders have a brother or other family member that wold fit the same scenario.

I know the point you are making is that higher prices could fund a better team. I said already I am a bit skeptical of that. Ted is not a man who goes after the high priced free agents. My feeling (and I have no graphs or pie charts to prove it is that they would simply pocket the money. So much would go into the reserve fund. Some of it to players. Some of it into up keep/expansion and some of it into the pockets of management.

I think we would have about the same caliber of a team as we have now only we would be paying more for the privilege to watch them.

Keep this in mind too. It is now ancient history, but by NOT gouging the fans for as much as they can the Packers are in a way saying thank you to the community that kept them afloat in their early years when they struggled.

Any how I said it before that they will raise their prices regardless of what I or others think. Perhaps they need it. Perhaps not. Part of the "need" is an artificial inflation that the league and players have set up. It is hard for me to feel sorry for them when it is not necessary.

Under the current tv contracts the league receives over $6 Billion dollars a year. (That is around $100 million per franchise.) That does not count all the other revenue that is generated. And yet we hear of how hard it is for teams to make ends meet.

I know that the sports/entertainment industry does not follow the same principles as the rest of society. Maybe they should.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
15 years ago
About that TV revenue.

It is by far and away the biggest factor in allowing a GB to exist in the NFL.

Fun little trivia fact.

Possibly the best thing that could happen to a Green Bay Packer season ticketholder is a lockout in 2011.

All those TV contracts have been renegotiated in the past few years.

Fox, CBS, NBC, ESPN, Direct TV.

Lockout?

War chest? We don't need no stinkin' warchest. (Other teams do, see part about debt)

All pay the NFL anyway. NFL had 'em by the balls and is SMART. We get our shared revenue anyway.

Windfall to Green Bay. More so than any other team, by far.

Go look at (Forbes) "Debt to value" ratio of the various teams. That is the big "sucker-outer" of funds...That bill kepps on coming.

We are going to kick the Vikings ass, and we don't even have to play them, lol

I'm not gonna look, but I think their ratio is something like 38%

Ours is 2.

So we get all that revenue (obviously not the ticket income, but hey, who cares----$$$$$-wise)


And don't have to pay anyone!

Awesome! I'll even root for us WHEN WE AIN'T PLAYING!!!! ok, kidding on the last part, lol
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
15 years ago
I knew you were wanting to talk about the tv contract. Was surprised you have not done so yet. Glad I could "set you up".
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
15 years ago

I knew you were wanting to talk about the tv contract. Was surprised you have not done so yet. Glad I could "set you up".

"wpr" wrote:



he he

good discussion, btw.

OK-
We know that GB made 4 mil in 2008. We know they grossed 247 mil.

(slightly lower percentage to players in '08, no one asked, but thought I'd mention it--the 138.7mil figure)

I think Justin Harrell got his last roster bonus in 2008. Somewhere at or above the Packers net profit. I know he had an 8 mil guarantee.

So Justin Harrell is as valuable an asset to GB and all it's fans around the world as is the franchise itself.

financially.

Or GB is committing fraud, or cooking the books--probably a little of the cooking, but maybe not.

EDIT---

I hear you on the "thanking" part, but I have to question if they are thanking the right people.

On the surface it would appear like, "yes, by about half" As in, keeping ticket prices relatively (artificially? :pottytrain2: ) low for the approx 70k ticketholders, but then not "thanking" to the approx 70k on the waiting list.

Some might say not only not thanking, but essentially screwing...

Unfortunately it isn't that good of a thank you. My tickets are because my Grandfather was a physician in Madison/Monona...and building wealth, etc. What the hell does his relative capacity to pay have to do with the people that got taxed in (?Brown?) county, and worse, what the hell does his estate being in a position to transfer ownership (ultimately) to a grandson in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania have to do with the people of Brown County (And the state of Wisconsin residents when they coughed up for the stock offering) The "thank you" allows me to be a scalper if I so choose, (once I pry them from my cousins' greedy little drunk paws, lol)and I never paid a dime for the privilege, and never will, as it stands....And I am not alone- In my immediate vicinity, I'd say less than half the people holding the tickets actually live in Wisconsin. This is NOT directed at you, WPR, this is directed at the "system". I understand you have to write that check, including for the 2 pre-season games, but we both know that you could "roll those tickets over" for a very handsome profit if you so chose to do so, you said it yourself.

?
dfosterf
15 years ago
This is an Eagles blogger, but he has posted some excellent information regarding the uncapped year. For example, when the league speaks of no payout into the SRS, the "no check in the mail" occurs in 2011, not 2010. The good news there is that the two accounting methods are the reason...The 2010 check Green Bay will cut is for the 2009 season. The fortunate aspect is that this $$ will have already been accounted for as "2009 money".

He also speaks briefly about the fallacy of "wiping the slate clean" on overpaid vets. It is not as good for an owner (read Dan Snyder) as is popularly thought.

There is other stuff in there, too.

iggles blog-Dead money, rookie deals and dead money issues 
dfosterf
15 years ago
Florio et. al. screwed up originally when explaining the "rule of 8" (my term)

His explanation of his screw- up is an excellent and relatively easy to understand explanation of the rule and possible ramifications.

PFT-Link 

Clarification on the potential Peppers contract
Posted by Mike Florio on February 2, 2010 9:08 AM ET
We posted on Monday an item regarding the limitations that will apply to the teams inclined to sign Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers to a big-money, 12:01 a.m.-style contract.

And thanks to an astute reader, we need to clarify our point. (That's a fancy word for "we f--ked something up.")

The so-called Final Eight Plan restricts the ability of the teams that made it to the divisional round or higher to sign unrestricted free agents. For the final four teams (Colts, Saints, Jets, Vikings), our explanation regarding Peppers' situation remains accurate. (In other words, we didn't f--k it up.) For the next four teams (Cowboys, Cardinals, Ravens, Chargers), there's one exception that applies as it relates to big-money contracts.

The Final Eight Plan permits the division-round losers to sign one player to a contract having an adjusted salary in the first year of $5.5 million or more. (For some reason, we thought it was "or less." Thus, the f--kup.) The division-round losers also may sign an unlimited number of unrestricted free agents to contracts with first-year adjusted salaries of $3.7 million or less, with limitations on future growth.

In English, this means that the Cowboys, Cardinals, Ravens, and Chargers can sign one guy to a Haynesworth-style contract at 12:01 a.m. ET on the first day of free agency. Thus, the presumably big-spending Cowboys can still pursue Peppers (or some other big-name unrestricted free agent), if they so choose.

The conference finalists, however, can't. And then there's the reality that most teams are expected not to spend huge money on player contracts, as part of the 2011 lockout fund.

So whether it's four or eight teams that can't pursue Peppers, it will be a surprise if he lands a $100-million deal.

And, again, Julius shouldn't be uttering "et tu?" when the Ides of March approach, given that he made more than $18 million in 2009.

dfosterf
15 years ago
PFT- Final 8 restrictions apply to trades also 

Final Eight Plan limitations apply to trades, too
Posted by Mike Florio on February 15, 2010 9:29 AM ET
As the first year without a salary cap since the arrival of the salary cap approaches, we're spending plenty of time picking through the details of the current labor agreement.

And here's something we found that we hadn't previously seen anywhere.

Article XXI spells out the terms of the Final Eight Plan, a provision aimed at preserving competitive balance in the uncapped year by preventing the teams that made it to the division round or better from buying up a bunch of unrestricted free agents.

For the final four teams (Saints, Colts, Vikings, Jets), no unrestricted free agents may be signed from other teams until one of their current unrestricted free agents is lost to another team. Complicating matters is that the value of the first year of the replacement free agent's contract must be no more than the first-year salary paid to the player who was lost, with annual growth of no more than 30 percent.

For the next four teams (Cardinals, Cowboys, Ravens, Chargers), one unrestricted free agent may be signed at a base salary of $5.5 million or more, and an unlimited amount of others at a first-year salary of $3.7 million with a 30-percent limit on growth.

It had been assumed by many that these teams nevertheless could trade for an unlimited amount of players.

Under Section 7 of Article XXI of the CBA, they can't.

Here's the key language: "No Club subject to the provisions of this Article may, for one League Year, trade for a player it otherwise would not be permitted to sign as an Unrestricted Free Agent as a result of the provisions of this Article."

That said, Article XXI, Section 8 expressly permits teams to negotiate with and sign unrestricted free agents limited by the transition or franchise tag. But Section 7 apparently restricts the ability of the final eight teams to work out a trade for a franchise player for something less than two first-round draft picks -- a common approach that multiple teams have used when shipping franchise players to new teams.

Keep in mind that none of this affects the ability of the final eight teams to sign or trade for restricted free agents, since the Final Eight Plan applies only to unrestricted free agents, and unrestricted free agency applies only to players who have six or more years of service.

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