warhawk
15 years ago
No. No. No. Don't put this on the defense. Sure, they could be better but they are not the problem here.

Look at the last two games.

Against the Vikes:

On one drive they only had to go 14 yards. TOUCHDOWN

They kickoff-HOLDING GB- Ball on 15
THIRD DOWN- SACK- Punt

VIKES TAKE OVER on own 49- TOUCHDOWN

We are down 14-3 and the Vikings have had to go a total of 65 yards. This is a micro-whatever of how the season has gone. Sacks and penalties kock us back, we punt, the other team has good Field position....or... we DO score, kickoff....and allow a huge return.

In seven possessions OTHER THAN the one they took back to our 14 their average starting position was the 40.5 yard line. That's EIGHT times they are within a blink of being on our side of the field before they even run a play.

Interestingly enough the three other times the Vikes started from their own 19, 33, and, 26 yard line, they punted.

The defense has given up a few bad drives and a few big plays but overall they have played well and certainly good enough for us to win. In the last two weeks they have given up 76 points and close to 50 of those came from putting them in very bad shape or they didn't have anything to do with the score at all. That's pathetic.
"The train is leaving the station."
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
/begin rant

I don't care who's more to blame. NONE of the units has performed where they need to be if this team is to be a championship contender.

Maybe I'll be forever spoiled having grown up watching super bowls 1 and 2. But those were teams that DOMINATED on both sides of the ball. And so, ahem, was the super bowl 31 team.

Our defense may have screwed up less than the offense has. Big effing deal. What our defense hasn't been is dominant -- except against teams like detroit and cleveland.

Yeah, offense and special teams may have bigger problems. But if people think the quality of defense this team is playing is sufficient, I'm sorry, they're deluding themselves.

Nitschke, Robinson, Caffey, Davis, Jordan, Brown, Aldridge, Adderley, Wood, Hart, Jeter. That's the level of defensive that we should be demanding, dammit. I mean, it's 40+ years after the fact and I only had to look up one name. How many of us will be able to do the same with this defense in five years. Seriously.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

/begin rant

I don't care who's more to blame. NONE of the units has performed where they need to be if this team is to be a championship contender.

Maybe I'll be forever spoiled having grown up watching super bowls 1 and 2. But those were teams that DOMINATED on both sides of the ball. And so, ahem, was the super bowl 31 team.

Our defense may have screwed up less than the offense has. Big effing deal. What our defense hasn't been is dominant -- except against teams like detroit and cleveland.

Yeah, offense and special teams may have bigger problems. But if people think the quality of defense this team is playing is sufficient, I'm sorry, they're deluding themselves.

Nitschke, Robinson, Caffey, Davis, Jordan, Brown, Aldridge, Adderley, Wood, Hart, Jeter. That's the level of defensive that we should be demanding, dammit. I mean, it's 40+ years after the fact and I only had to look up one name. How many of us will be able to do the same with this defense in five years. Seriously.

"Wade" wrote:



+how ever many I can give.

The team is playing bad. The entire team, we have shot ourself with penalties, dropped balls, blown blocking assignments, holding the ball to long, not running when the chance is there. Not getting pressure, losing coverage, missing tackles.

I don't think there is one fuck up that this team hasn't fucked up.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
Ack, you need to take that one away, twins....just realized I made not one but two mistakes on that defensive roster....
kostelnik was still a starter at DT (brown wasn't good enough yet).
hart was also a backup (to Tom Brown).
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
15 years ago
Wade.....i was one of the ones that got to see SB's 1 & 2 (on TV of course)
Teams back then had it alot easier, as if you had a great player, he wouldn't run off to other teams for the "big bucks". There was no "salary cap", but they didn't NEED one. PLayers didn't get millions of dollars, they were lucky to get several thousand. So you could keep good players. Today, it's a battle to keep anyone that IS half decent, cause you have to watch how much you spend. Plus, the "divas" that jump to other teams because they feel "dissed", and want MO money mo money mo money!
It's a different time, for sure.
But there are WAY too many screw ups on the Packers. I HOPE that turns around soon, or it will be another wasted season.
UserPostedImage
nerdmann
15 years ago

No. No. No. Don't put this on the defense. Sure, they could be better but they are not the problem here.

Look at the last two games.

Against the Vikes:

On one drive they only had to go 14 yards. TOUCHDOWN

They kickoff-HOLDING GB- Ball on 15
THIRD DOWN- SACK- Punt

VIKES TAKE OVER on own 49- TOUCHDOWN

We are down 14-3 and the Vikings have had to go a total of 65 yards. This is a micro-whatever of how the season has gone. Sacks and penalties kock us back, we punt, the other team has good Field position....or... we DO score, kickoff....and allow a huge return.

In seven possessions OTHER THAN the one they took back to our 14 their average starting position was the 40.5 yard line. That's EIGHT times they are within a blink of being on our side of the field before they even run a play.

Interestingly enough the three other times the Vikes started from their own 19, 33, and, 26 yard line, they punted.

The defense has given up a few bad drives and a few big plays but overall they have played well and certainly good enough for us to win. In the last two weeks they have given up 76 points and close to 50 of those came from putting them in very bad shape or they didn't have anything to do with the score at all. That's pathetic.

"warhawk" wrote:




Agreed. The biggest problem on defense is the "reputation" penalties. The offense isn't moving the ball to create field position, and the defense is thus having to play with their backs to the wall. Special teams aren't helping much either.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
matteogb4
15 years ago
i agree with dj...most of all...why the hell only 2 DL most of the times????


last year we made play even jason hunter...i repeat jason hunter...as DT...now we have the DL and we play only with 2
blank
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Wade.....i was one of the ones that got to see SB's 1 & 2 (on TV of course)
Teams back then had it alot easier, as if you had a great player, he wouldn't run off to other teams for the "big bucks". There was no "salary cap", but they didn't NEED one. PLayers didn't get millions of dollars, they were lucky to get several thousand. So you could keep good players. Today, it's a battle to keep anyone that IS half decent, cause you have to watch how much you spend. Plus, the "divas" that jump to other teams because they feel "dissed", and want MO money mo money mo money!
It's a different time, for sure.
But there are WAY too many screw ups on the Packers. I HOPE that turns around soon, or it will be another wasted season.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Cheesey,
Your argument explains why there are no dynasties anymore, and I agree.
But there are still dominant teams, dominant units.

I don't remember that Packer defense roster because they were together for years -- I was only 8 years old in 1966, and so most of the Lombardi years are dim memories to me. But yet I do remember that dominant defense player by player from that year. Just as I remember the defense from the 1996 Super Bowl team, though it didn't stay together nearly as long as the Lombardi group did.

Other franchises have found the way to put together dominant units since free agency and the big salary era. To be sure, they havent been able to keep them intact for years, and most have not had dominant units on both sides of the ball like, say, GB had in 1962 and 1996. But the Trent Dilfer-led Ravens notwithstanding, most of those championship teams in the big-spending era have had their "weakest" unit performing better than the Packers "strongest" unit is performing now.

I'm not asking McCarthy and Thompson to put together another dynasty. I'm realistic enough to know that such is next to impossible when key factors of production can move about freely. But I am asking them to put together dominant units. Because that CAN be done in today's NFL.

Thompson is in year 5. McCarthy is in year 4. And we're debating between the relative fault of units that are somewhere between "servicable" and "awful." We should be debating which units are "dominant" and which are merely "good".

We should.

But if we did, we'd be nearly as delusional as the Oakland CB who just announced he thinks they can win out.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
zombieslayer
15 years ago

/begin rant

I don't care who's more to blame. NONE of the units has performed where they need to be if this team is to be a championship contender.

Maybe I'll be forever spoiled having grown up watching super bowls 1 and 2. But those were teams that DOMINATED on both sides of the ball. And so, ahem, was the super bowl 31 team.

Our defense may have screwed up less than the offense has. Big effing deal. What our defense hasn't been is dominant -- except against teams like detroit and cleveland.

Yeah, offense and special teams may have bigger problems. But if people think the quality of defense this team is playing is sufficient, I'm sorry, they're deluding themselves.

Nitschke, Robinson, Caffey, Davis, Jordan, Brown, Aldridge, Adderley, Wood, Hart, Jeter. That's the level of defensive that we should be demanding, dammit. I mean, it's 40+ years after the fact and I only had to look up one name. How many of us will be able to do the same with this defense in five years. Seriously.

"Wade" wrote:



There may not be a D like the Packers 60s D in the next 40 years either. Not even fair to compare the 2.

However, we do have Pro Bowlers in Kampy, Woody, Harris, and Collins on our D. Barnett is good. I don't care what anyone else says on this board, I know he's a good player. So is Jenkins.

Woody has a shot of the Hall of Fame. Not a shoe in, but a shot.

Interestingly enough the three other times the Vikes started from their own 19, 33, and, 26 yard line, they punted.

"Warhawk" wrote:



Speaks for itself. We got to stop giving our D such short field.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
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Greg C.
15 years ago
The way I see it, the Packers are 4-4 because the offense is slightly above average, the defense is about average, and the special teams are poor. The losses have all been team failures, with no clear scapegoats. Some posters have pointed out that the defense only gave up one long TD drive against Tampa Bay, but when did they let that happen? At the exact time they could not afford to let it happen. Somebody mentioned that "reputation" penalties are the defense's biggest problem. Really? How about the near-absence of a pass rush?

There's just no other way to slice it. This is an average defense. And we had every right to expect much more of it this year. Look at how well Dom Capers has done in his first season as DC with other teams. We're not seeing that in Green Bay, at least not yet. Capers' was the Packers' third choice, after Gregg Williams and Mike Nolan, and both of those guys have had huge impacts on the teams they went to this year (New Orleans and Denver). I thought Capers was in the same league with those guys, but now I'm beginning to wonder if the game is passing him by a little.

We'll see what happens the rest of the way. The season is only half over.
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