Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Source Link 

Green Bay Mike McCarthy has coached both Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

If he were to put both quarterback's physical statistics on one of the magnetic boards the Green Bay Packers use to evaluate college players, he'd barely be able to tell the difference.

"If you look at their magnets when they're on the board, they're almost identical," McCarthy said. "Both have 10-inch hands. Both have 30-something-(inch) arm length. They're big-shoulder guys. They had very similar body types coming out. They both torque the hell out of the football."

The comparison stops there, however, when it comes to accomplishments. There are more than a few major differences between them.

Favre turns 40 on Saturday, holds almost every significant NFL passing record, already has a place waiting for him in the Hall of Fame and has won a Super Bowl. Rodgers is 25, has a losing record as a starting quarterback and has yet to prove he can carry a team emotionally and physically.

When the Packers meet the Minnesota Vikings Monday night at the Metrodome, it won't be Brett Favre vs. Aaron Rodgers. But this, Rodgers' 20th start, stands to be the most important moment in his career, and plenty of people will be watching to see whether he can do what Favre has done so many times: win when it matters.

That is the true measurement of a quarterback, many believe.

"I see so many people putting a lot of different meaning into so many different things these days," former Packers general manger Ron Wolf said. "It makes statistics more (important). But the bottom line is the wins and the losses. That tells you whether a guy is good enough."

Rodgers has a long way to go before his career can be measured.

But to date, the closest he has come to picking up the team and carrying it on his shoulders was a 48-25 victory at Detroit last season when he completed 24 of 38 passes for 328 yards and three touchdowns. He engineered two scoring drives late in the fourth quarter to give the team breathing room and then let the defense finish the job with two interceptions returned for touchdowns.

He has had terrific moments, like his 50-yard touchdown pass to Greg Jennings that beat the Chicago Bears in the season opener this year. He also drove the team into Bears territory last December for what should have been the game-winning field goal. He did the same at Minnesota last year, albeit only to the 35, resulting in a 52-yard attempt.

But taking over a game? Not yet.

As good as his numbers have been - he has a 95.2 career passer rating (62.3% completion percentage, 5,081 yards, 33 touchdowns and 14 interceptions) - his record as a starter is 8-11. The losing record isn't all his fault, but some of it is. When the Packers needed touchdowns in close games last year, he was only able to deliver field goals.

On Monday night, he'll get the ultimate chance to prove himself.

"He has a year under his belt," McCarthy said. "He has two experiences against the Vikings under his belt. He had the opportunity to play up there in the Metrodome, which always is a tough thing for a quarterback the first time, going up there noise-wise and so forth. I think the biggest thing is he clearly has more experience."

There's no question that Rodgers has been a productive quarterback, but part of being a great one is having the confidence to take shots downfield when you need to. Rodgers played behind one of the most aggressive quarterbacks ever, but he has not shown that kind of daring and by most accounts would rather swim in a shark tank than throw an interception.

The ability to make a clutch throw in the critical moment of a hotly contested game is exactly why the Vikings decided they wanted Favre. They weren't looking for him to throw for 4,000 yards, they just wanted him to make two or three clutch plays that help dictate the final outcome and make a game-winning play or two as he did last Sunday against San Francisco.

"(Before last week) he was a caretaker," Vikings coach Brad Childress said with sarcasm. "I'm not hearing that much this week. You don't want a guy that's a conservative guy. You want a guy that plays within the parameters of your system. Is there some inherent risk in some of the things that you do? Absolutely.

"But I'd rather have somebody that has ice water in his veins and competes like crazy than somebody that's like, 'Yeah, I've got that throw but let me go ahead and check it and duck it down here.' I can assure you that that mentality, his mentality, hasn't changed."
When to take a risk

McCarthy isn't sure anyone will ever take the chances Favre does and his expectation isn't that his new quarterback does the same. But he thinks it's a process for Rodgers to understand when he can take chances and when he can't.

"I think Aaron has been raised in a much more systematic (fashion), and he has bought into that," McCarthy said. "But I see him, he gets more confident as they all do with every game that goes by. He's not scared to throw the tight ball."

For Rodgers to achieve greatness he may need more of that wild abandon Favre has carried with him since the day he stepped on the football field. It's possible he'll never have it and will be just a solid quarterback with great statistics and nothing much else to show.

But it could be he's still breaking out of a shell that has surrounded him most of his football life. He has always been a student of the game, using his brain as much as his outstanding athletic ability, and has been schooled in fundamental football from a very young age. In the two years he was at the University of California, he always played within coach Jeff Tedford's scheme and was thought by some scouts to be too much of a system quarterback.

Rodgers came out of Cal with a tight, rigid throwing motion that underscored his devotion to Tedford and his style of coaching quarterbacks. In four years with the Packers, Rodgers has developed a more fluid style both in the way he holds the ball and the way he throws it.

Physically, he has worked his body to a point where he has become a first-rate scrambler, deep-ball thrower and iron man.

The next phase for Rodgers is to become more than just a stats machine. He also might have ice water in his veins, as McCarthy has said, but he played safe during his first season as a starter and didn't always "throw his receivers open" as McCarthy terms it. In other words, don't wait until the receiver is open, anticipate his break and throw it to a spot where the receiver can beat his defenders for the ball.

It is not a coincidence that the Packers' receivers suffered a big drop in run-after-the-catch yards when they went from Favre to Rodgers. Part of getting those yards is having a quarterback who leads his receivers and throws it before defenders can react to it.

Rodgers shows no hesitancy in hanging in the pocket and throwing deep and isn't afraid to take a hit. But as accurate of a passer as he is, there are still some throws down the middle of the field on which he needs to pull the trigger.

"He's a lot more aggressive in throwing in the second hole and throwing the guy open instead of making sure he's open," McCarthy said. "I see it all the time. He threw four of them (in practice Thursday). He's moving this guy (faking one way) and throwing into the second hole instead of waiting. He's playing faster."

Experience may play a part in making those throws more often and as Rodgers plays more, McCarthy is confident he'll complete more of them.



More so posted here for a good read, not a B for A discussion so don't piss me off by turning it into that. 🙂
UserPostedImage
buckeyepackfan
15 years ago
Some of the points brought up in the article about AR, IMHO is more MM's decisions, not Aaron Rodgers taking the chances.

Last years loss at Minny is a perfect example, Aaron Rodgers gets The Packers to the 35, and then it was like "ok we are close enough let's shut it down and let Crosby win the game".

Personally I would take a few more interceptions by AR, if the reward was him making more big plays to win games.

I am in a real quandry tonight though, I am up on longtimefan 49-48 going into tonights game....I have Brett.....he has The Packers defense.

What to do? What to do?




GO PACKERS!!!!!!!!! My team sucks anyway, probably won't win another game all year.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
istanbulpacker
15 years ago


More so posted here for a good read, not a B for A discussion so don't piss me off by turning it into that. :)



Yeah, the hype for this game is all Favre VS. Rodgers. Why can't it be Favre AND Rodgers. I'm really psyched about A-Rod and hopeful for the future. If you go back in your mind to the early 90's when Favre was just a young buck he didn't perform the same as the "wily veteran" that he is today.

I'm hoping we could see another great QB just like our old QB. Sort of a Joe Montana-Steve Young lineage. To have 7-10 years without having to worry about a QB and whom you could build a team around. That is reason for excitement.
blank
yooperfan
15 years ago


More so posted here for a good read, not a B for A discussion so don't piss me off by turning it into that. :)

"istanbulpacker" wrote:



Yeah, the hype for this game is all Favre VS. Rodgers. Why can't it be Favre AND Rodgers. I'm really psyched about A-Rod and hopeful for the future. If you go back in your mind to the early 90's when Favre was just a young buck he didn't perform the same as the "wily veteran" that he is today.

I'm hoping we could see another great QB just like our old QB. Sort of a Joe Montana-Steve Young lineage. To have 7-10 years without having to worry about a QB and whom you could build a team around. That is reason for excitement.



I think Rodgers has everything it takes to be a great QB in this league but until there is a hierarchy in Green Bay that has the competency to build a team around him things will remain "status quo".

You just can't be the youngeat team in the league year in and year out with alot of salary cap space and expect to bring the Lombardi trophy home.
istanbulpacker
15 years ago


until there is a hierarchy in Green Bay that has the competency to build a team around him things will remain "status quo".

You just can't be the youngeat team in the league year in and year out with alot of salary cap space and expect to bring the Lombardi trophy home.

"yooperfan" wrote:



Well put, sir. Well put.
blank
15 years ago
Nobody "expects" to bring the Lombardi trophy home. NE spent FA money on Moss, Welker, A. Thomas, etc. went 18-0 and didn't bring the Lombardi trophy home. That same year, we had the youngest team in the league and the oldest player on our team (?) threw up a horrible INT to give the game away in the NFC Championship game.
31 teams are losers every year. You go with your philosophy and you stay true to it. This team's philosophy = playing the FA market smartly and not loosely. I happen to like it.

31 teams are losers every year. I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why GB's philosophy will not work. Nobody feels like digging, or if they do dig, they don't present what they find. As another poster pointed out on here, people also tend to avoid looking back at the big money FA they so desperately wanted - the one that would put GB over the top - and talk about how much of a colossal bust he became on his new team. Basically, it's up to you to add weight to your own argument. It doesn't prove itself. Far from it.
UserPostedImage
Stevetarded
15 years ago
Why do I keep hearing about how Rodgers is scared to take shots downfield or take chances? Has anyone saying this stuff ever watched him play? Haven't we seen this guy complete bombs deep downfield into double coverage? Wasn't it the bengals game where he chucked that deep bomb to Jennings in the middle of the field (who had 3 guys on him).

I hope Rodgers never plays like Favre. I like how he isn't afraid to throw it deep when his guy has a step and I like how he doesn't throw it deep just to try and get out of trouble.
blank
warhawk
15 years ago
I think McCarthy actually gave something away when talking about Rodgers throwing four passes down the middle in thursdays practice.

I know I saw Hill burn the Vikes down the middle to their TE and I am hoping to see that crease pattern to Lee open up the middle tonight.

I would challenge their "improved" pass defense statement. They played the two teams in the league with the worst passer rating in Detroit and Cleveland and Shaun Hill is generally not going to put up any big numbers with the 49'rs. In fact had Gore been able to stay in the game it probably never would have come down to a last play.

A defense can look pretty dynamic when the other team can't do anything about the one thing you don't do well. I just wonder if they would be saying the Vikes were "improved" on pass defense had they played a couple of teams that can actually chuck it pretty good.

I would say at this point the quality of their pass defense would have to be considered an unknown. If they protect Rodgers at all tonight we will see what they call it tomorrow.
"The train is leaving the station."
Dulak
15 years ago


I would challenge their "improved" pass defense statement. They played the two teams in the league with the worst passer rating in Detroit and Cleveland and Shaun Hill is generally not going to put up any big numbers with the 49'rs. In fact had Gore been able to stay in the game it probably never would have come down to a last play.

"warhawk" wrote:



ya MN played the browns and detroit ... and stafford sucked in that game.
And like you said Shaun hill is a new starting QB.

Now MN will know whats it like to go against a pre-mere passing team.
Porforis
15 years ago

Source Link 

...

As good as his numbers have been - he has a 95.2 career passer rating (62.3% completion percentage, 5,081 yards, 33 touchdowns and 14 interceptions) - his record as a starter is 8-11. The losing record isn't all his fault, but some of it is. When the Packers needed touchdowns in close games last year, he was only able to deliver field goals.

On Monday night, he'll get the ultimate chance to prove himself.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Stopped reading there. You can be a perfect quarterback who can hit a two inch target 80 yards downfield every time, but it doesn't matter if your receivers are not open, you don't have time to throw the ball, or there are defenders in your face. The QB is the leader of the offense, but leader or not, the rest of the offense (and the rest of the team) need... NEED to do their part as well. There is not a QB in the league last year that would have been able to get more than MAYBE two more wins out of some of the close games. So why are we putting this on Rodger's shoulders? Because he's not firing up his teammates and inspiring to play better? In my opinion, that's the job of the player first, and the coach second.

Finally, he has nothing to prove. The offensive line and Grant have something to prove on offense, and our defense needs to prove that they can stop the run. Gah.
Fan Shout
beast (24m) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk
beast (3h) : Might just re-sign the kicker we got
beast (3h) : Are there any kickers worth drafting next year?
Zero2Cool (3h) : Preston Smith for Malik Willis
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Getting a 7th rounder from the Stillers
Zero2Cool (3h) : At least we get 7th round pick now!! HELLO NEW KICKER
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Steelers getting a premier lockdown corner!
Zero2Cool (3h) : Packers are trading edge rusher Preston Smith to the Pittsburgh Steelers, per sources.
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Preston Smith traded to the Steelers!!!!
Zero2Cool (5h) : CB Marshon Lattimore to Commanders
Zero2Cool (9h) : Bears are sending RB Khalil Herbert to the Bengals, per sources.
Zero2Cool (9h) : ZaDarius Smith continues his "north" tour.
Zero2Cool (10h) : Let the Chiefs trade a 5th for him
Zero2Cool (10h) : Nearing 30, large contract, nope.
Martha Careful (22h) : any interest in Marshon Lattimore?
Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : What does NFL do if they're over cap?
Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : They've been able to constantly push it out through extensions, void years etc but they're in the hole by 72 million next year I believe
hardrocker950 (4-Nov) : Seems the Saints are always in cap hell
Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : Saints HC job is not an envious one; gonna be in cap hell for 3 years
Mucky Tundra (4-Nov) : Dennis Allen has now been fired twice mid-season with Derek Carr as his starting QB
Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : Kuhn let go
beast (4-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers would have any interest in Z. Smith, probably not
Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : Shefter says Browns and Lions will figure out how to get a deal done for Za'Darius Smith..
Zero2Cool (4-Nov) : Packers are more likely to have 1,000 yard rusher than 4,000 yard passer
Zero2Cool (3-Nov) : It's raining hard.
Zero2Cool (3-Nov) : Packers inactives vs. Lions: CB Jaire Alexander S Evan Williams C Josh Myers Non-injury inactives: WR Malik Heath OL Travis Glover DE Bren
packerfanoutwest (3-Nov) : Malik Willis: My focus is helping the Packers win, not proving I can start elsewhere. But he could
Zero2Cool (1-Nov) : I had Texans, but the loss of another WR flipped me
wpr (1-Nov) : I thought about taking the Jets but they've been a disaster. Losing to the Pats last week
Zero2Cool (1-Nov) : Surprised more didn't pick Jets in Pick'em.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

10h / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

13h / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

4-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

4-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

2-Nov / Around The NFL / wpr

1-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

1-Nov / Around The NFL / beast

Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.