Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Air France: Missing plane probably crashed into Atlantic  

PARIS, France (CNN) -- The jet carrying 228 people from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, that disappeared overnight as it entered an area of strong turbulence probably crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, the CEO of Air France said Monday.

The first three hours of what was to have been an 11-hour flight appear to have been uneventful, CEO Pierre-Henri Gourgeon said.

But about 4:15 a.m. Paris time, Flight 447's automatic system began a four-minute exchange of messages to the company's maintenance computers, indicating that "several pieces of aircraft equipment were at fault or had broken down," he said.

"This succession of messages signals a totally unforeseeable, great difficulty," he said. "Something quite new within the plane."

During that time, there was no contact with the crew, Gourgeon said.

"It was probable that it was a little bit after those messages that the impact of the plane took place in the Atlantic," he added.

He said the Airbus A330 was probably closer to Brazil than to Africa when it crashed.

He noted that turbulence made flying "difficult" in the area but that it is "too early to say" exactly what happened.

The chances of finding any survivors from were "very low," French President Nicolas Sarkozy admitted Monday.

"This is a catastrophe the likes of which Air France has never seen before," he said at Charles de Gaulle International Airport, where he met with relatives of the missing.

"I said the truth to them: The prospects of finding survivors are very low," he said.

Asked the nationalities of those aboard, he said most of them were Brazilians but added, "that changes nothing, of course. They're victims. It doesn't matter about their nationality."

The airline company identified the nationalities of the victims as two Americans, an Argentinean, an Austrian, a Belgian, 58 Brazilians, five British, a Canadian, nine Chinese, a Croatian, a Dane, a Dutch, an Estonian, a Filipino, 61 French, a Gambian, 26 Germans, four Hungarians, three Irish, one Icelandic, nine Italians, five Lebanese, two Moroccans, three Norwegians, two Polish, one Romanian, one Russian, three Slovakian, two Spanish, one Swedish, six Swiss and one Turk.

Sarkozy said French authorities had sent ships and planes to the area about 400 kilometers from Brazil. "Our Spanish friends are helping us; Brazilians are helping us a lot as well."

He added that authorities were seeking the help of satellites that might be able to pick up signs of what happened to the 4-year-old Airbus 330.

No possibility was being excluded: Turbulence in the area was strong, but other planes were able to pass through it without incident, he said.

The plane had reported a problem with the electrical system, "but the specialists refuse for the moment to express themselves about any possibility," Sarkozy said.

The jet had also sent out a warning that it had lost pressure, the Brazilian air force said. Video Watch aviation expert describe possible scenarios

It lost contact with air traffic control between Galeao International Airport in Rio de Janeiro and Charles de Gaulle International Airport in Paris, the airline said Monday.

The Airbus A330 sent out an automatic signal warning of the electrical problems just after 2 a.m. GMT Monday as it flew "far from the coast," said an Air France spokeswoman who declined to be identified. It had just entered a stormy area with strong turbulence, she said.

The jet was flying at an altitude of 35,000 feet and a speed of 521 mph, the air force said.

Among the passengers were 126 men, 82 women, seven children and a baby, in addition to the 12 crew members, Air France officials in Brazil said.

Much of the route is out of radar contact, Brazilian air force Col. Henry Munhoz told TV Globo.

Brazil's air force launched a search near the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha in the Atlantic Ocean, 365 km (226 miles) from Brazil's coast, a spokesman for the air force said.

Two Brazilian squadrons are searching for the plane, although it disappeared after it left the country's radar space, said the officer, who declined to be identified.

The flight, AF 447, took off from Galeao International Airport at 11:30 p.m. Sunday GMT. It was scheduled to land in Paris at 9:10 a.m. GMT.

Its last known contact occurred at 2:33 a.m. GMT, the Brazilian air force spokesman said.

It was expected to check in with air traffic controllers at 3:20 a.m. GMT but did not do so, the Brazilian air force said in a statement.

Brazilian authorities asked the air force to launch a search mission just over three hours later, at 6:30 a.m. GMT, the statement said.

The plane reported no problems before takeoff, Joao Assuncao, Air France's manager in Brazil, told the country's Record TV.

The French ambassador to Senegal told BFMTV that French military aircraft had been dispatched to search around Cape Vert, or Green Cape, off the coast of the west African country.

The airline set up a crisis center at the Paris airport. It listed numbers for families to call: 0 800 800 812 for people in France and 00 33 1 57 02 10 55 for families outside France.

At a crisis center at the airport in Rio, relatives of the missing complained of a dearth of information from Air France, the Brazilian state news agency reported.

One man, who identified himself as Bernardo, said his brother, Romeo Amorim Souza, and his wife were on the missing flight.

"I came to the airport because I wasn't finding information, and my parents are very nervous," he told Agencia Brasil.

The missing A330 last underwent a maintenance check on April 16, the airline said.

CNN air travel expert Richard Quest said the twin-engine plane, a stalwart of transatlantic routes, had an impeccable safety record, with only one fatal incident involving a training flight in 1994.

"It has very good range and is extremely popular with airlines because of its versatility," he said.

Its crew was composed of three pilots and nine cabin crew members, including a captain who has logged 11,000 hours in flight. About 1,700 of those hours were on the A330 and A340. Of the two co-pilots, one has 3,000 hours of flying experience and the other 6,600 hours. The aircraft has flown 18,870 hours.

The model is "capable of communicating in several different ways over quite long distances even if they are out of radar coverage," said Kieran Daly of the online aviation news service Air Transport Intelligence.

The French Accident Investigation Bureau for civil aviation is investigating, the company said in a statement.
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RaiderPride
15 years ago
Planes just do not go down from Lightning Strikes.

How many thunderstorms are at 35,000 feet?

Something is not right here.
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
You also don't have terrorist attacks over open water outside of radar range, if that's what you're implying.

I'm guessing poor maintenance is to blame here, but I doubt sufficient wreckage will ever be recovered to make a firm diagnosis.
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Cheesey
15 years ago
Unless they are lucky and find the black box from the plane.
And if it's deep in the ocean, i doubt they will find it.
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vikesrule
15 years ago

...I'm guessing poor maintenance is to blame here...

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I am always disturbed when people speculate on the cause of an aircraft accident, right after it happens.

Having been in commercial aviation for 20 years, I learned that rarely is the cause of an accident ONE specific thing.
It is usually a series of unfortunate actions that have taken place in a tragic sequence, and if any one of them had been eliminated, the accident may have been averted.

Case in point:
In the early 1980's I worked for an airline called Air Florida.
In January 1982 one of our 737's crashed shortly after take-off, slamming into the 14th St bridge and into the Potomac river in Washington DC.
You can read about it here:
Air Florida Flight 90 

Briefly, the sequence of mistakes/errors, and contributing factors:

1. Pilot error stating that the flight crews failure to use engine anti-ice during ground operation and takeoff.

2.Their decision to take off with snow/ice on the airfoil surfaces of the aircraft

3.The captains failure to reject the takeoff during the early stage when his attention was called to anomalous engine instrument readings.

4. Contributing to the accident were the prolonged ground delay between de-icing and the receipt of ATC takeoff clearance


Now I am not saying that this is the case here, but it is way to early to to "guess or point fingers".
The initial priority should be for search and rescue....or God forbid, retrieval if possible.
My prayers to the families.
dfosterf
15 years ago
I got right there, Nick. I mean right there. From the 14th street bridge..still amazed we were able to drive right up to it..got there way before they were stopping everyone. Within five minutes of the crash. Saw the whole deal, the guy go in the water to rescue, the guy that passed the ring, the plane sinking--the brief period when you could still see where people might get out. The chopper---the stew--all of it. I also had a friend and her daughter on that plane, a very shitty small-world aspect to it. Her older brother works for NASA down in Fl....still a good friend also.

Strange day, that one. I wound up also having to try and rescue my dad that was stuck on a Metro car . Weirdest thing about the crash to me...It just wasn't that cold, in spite of the "blizzard". It was a "wet" snow. We did speculate that day, everyone pretty much bet that it was the delays from de-icing to take-off--I mean, we are talking National Airport here.

UserPostedImage

As to this crash, since the French will be doing the investigating, the cynical side of me thinks the French will somehow blame it on us.

RIP
vikesrule
15 years ago
Wow, that must have been an incredibly surreal experience Dave.

I know it is easy to speculate, and is basic human nature. It is just
a quirk of mine in these cases.

I was in Florida at the time, and yes even at Air Florida "rumors" were rampant.

I knew the mechanic that signed the airworthiness release on that flight, and he was torn up for months wondering if it was something that he did wrong.

The only person that I knew on that flight was the first officer, Roger Pettit.
If I remember correctly, he was a former Air Force F-15 driver.
dfosterf
15 years ago
I don't know her married name, but she was Cathy-Trice-Koger. I don't know how old her daughter was, or her name, couldn't have been more that a few years old. I had never met the child. Mom was commuting to Florida for a divorce from the guy that got all the $$$ from the airline. He was a cheater. Messed up.

Her brother that works for NASA is Rick Koger.


You want surreal? I was in the Pentagon parking lot, which you could have seen "your" plane crash from also, when the terrorists flew into the Pentagon. I heard it, but the sound was "bouncing" off the temp buildings at Henderson Hall, and had turned that way to look, so I didn't see the strike, but saw the rest one millisecond later. I think I was the only one that didn't see it, including the guy I was talking to. He described it as, "OH, SHIT"--at that moment...

That is some Forest Gump-like weird assed shit, my friend.

They are within practically hand grenade range of one another, just defilade from the bridge at the Pentagon--You probably already know that.

I think there are damn good reasons I don't belong anywhere near D.C.

karma-wise.
Rockmolder
15 years ago
This is going to sound slightly stupid, but I saw what you're talking about quite a few times on National Geographic and Discovery, Vikes. All these little things that eventually cause a major plane crash. It's amazing in a horrific way.

You saw the plane that crashed into the Pentagon Dave? Did you catch what happend with those wings? I have a friend who's intrigued by that 9/11: Loose Change documentary. It looks quite far fetched to me.

And as for this crash. It must be horrible if something like that happens to you or your family. Or anyone involved in the upkeep of the plane and what not, like Nick mentioned.
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