Blank402
16 years ago
If we go after one big FA it should be Jordan Gross. Haynesworth isn't worth the money he'll be commanding, and Peppers is likely to get tagged. We've got two old tackles, one who could retire after this year and one who is coming off a season ending injury, we need someone to come in and play at a high level right away at that position.

There are still some good, 'second tier' D line players who could make our team better without the outrageous price tag that comes with Haynesworth.
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porky88
16 years ago

Pickett doesn't belong. He's sucked this year.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Are you serious, or are you drunk and rambling idiotically?

Pickett was by far our best run stuffer in 07, and this year he's played with ankle injuries and elbow injuries. He's proved his toughness. He's so big that he is a lock to be double teamed most of the time.

Any solution moving forward regarding our poor run D must involve Pickett. He is simply too valuable as a player (got payed, but still played hard on game day, amongst other things) to be shipped out of town.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:



I actually would cut Pickett if Haynesworth is brought into the fold. Obviously if Haynesworth isn't then Pickett probably should stay on. It makes little sense to carry two players at that price at the same position and I also think Pickett was below average for the most part this year. He was beat off the ball and quite frankly, the guy is rather lazy.

Personally I rather see a lineup of Kampman Haynesworth Cole Jenkins.
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all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

I actually would cut Pickett if Haynesworth is brought into the fold. Obviously if Haynesworth isn't then Pickett probably should stay on. It makes little sense to carry two players at that price at the same position and I also think Pickett was below average for the most part this year. He was beat off the ball and quite frankly, the guy is rather lazy.

"porky88" wrote:



Wow, I have to disagree big time porky.

Firstly, besides Cole our DTs would be Jolly and Harrell. That alone makes it very hard to cut Pickett. Harrell's admission that he hasn't been healthy since High School, and Jolly's legal troubles make them no sure thing to contribute next season.


Secondly, Pickett has played with hamstring, then knee, and then elbow injuries. Yet despite being pretty banged up he hasn't missed a game. He's a trooper, someone that understands the "availability and accountability" moto of MM.


Finally, I think a lot of Pickket's ineffectiveness can be attributed to his unusually high snaps. Last year, Pickett played about 25-30 snaps per game last year, and this year he's had to play nearly double that. I mean just in the first quarter of the season, Pickett played 50 snaps vs Dallas and Tampa, and 42 against Atlanta (before he was injured).

I don't know where the 'Pickett is lazy' bit is coming from. His play has shown him to be anything but lazy, rarely missing practices (except for his knee and elbow injury rehabs). He's 29 and if I'm not mistaken scheduled to make around 3.75 million which is not that high.


Cole is a versatile player, high effort guy. But he is never going to be a consistent starter for a great team. Just isn't talented enough; we're talking about a player who was behind Pickett, Jolly, Williams, and Harrell last year on the depth chart.

Simply put, IMO Cole is nothing more than a rotational player on a great team. Pickett is capable enough to be starting, and his specialty is as a run stuffer. That's what this team needs moving forward.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
porky88
16 years ago

I actually would cut Pickett if Haynesworth is brought into the fold. Obviously if Haynesworth isn't then Pickett probably should stay on. It makes little sense to carry two players at that price at the same position and I also think Pickett was below average for the most part this year. He was beat off the ball and quite frankly, the guy is rather lazy.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Wow, I have to disagree big time porky.

Firstly, besides Cole our DTs would be Jolly and Harrell. That alone makes it very hard to cut Pickett. Harrell's admission that he hasn't been healthy since High School, and Jolly's legal troubles make them no sure thing to contribute next season.


Secondly, Pickett has played with hamstring, then knee, and then elbow injuries. Yet despite being pretty banged up he hasn't missed a game. He's a trooper, someone that understands the "availability and accountability" moto of Mike McCarthy.


Finally, I think a lot of Pickket's ineffectiveness can be attributed to his unusually high snaps. Last year, Pickett played about 25-30 snaps per game last year, and this year he's had to play nearly double that. I mean just in the first quarter of the season, Pickett played 50 snaps vs Dallas and Tampa, and 42 against Atlanta (before he was injured).

I don't know where the 'Pickett is lazy' bit is coming from. His play has shown him to be anything but lazy, rarely missing practices (except for his knee and elbow injury rehabs). He's 29 and if I'm not mistaken scheduled to make around 3.75 million which is not that high.


Cole is a versatile player, high effort guy. But he is never going to be a consistent starter for a great team. Just isn't talented enough; we're talking about a player who was behind Pickett, Jolly, Williams, and Harrell last year on the depth chart.

Simply put, IMO Cole is nothing more than a rotational player on a great team. Pickett is capable enough to be starting, and his specialty is as a run stuffer. That's what this team needs moving forward.

"porky88" wrote:



I believe Colin Cole is a free agent and he'll get starters money from some team. I hope the Packers. I actually read Packers Insiders believe as much. I think rightfully so. He's the hardest worker of any defensive lineman on the team. He shows the best burst and he's by far the hardest lineman on the team to move off the ball.

Here is a writing on Cole earlier in the year.

Packers DT Cole's value rising with free agency on horizon

Its not likely the name of Colin Cole instantly rings a bell when the topic of NFL defensive tackles comes up. But the way we hear it, in discussions among league personnel heavyweights, Coles name is being brought up a lot more frequently as of late, considering how consistently well he has been performing on the Packers defensive line. Taking advantage of increased playing time, the 6-1, 320-pound fourth-year pro really has surprised daily team observers with the steady inside pass rush he has been providing. In addition to being among the team leaders in QB pressures, were told Cole also has been the teams best D-lineman in terms of gap discipline. Coles game is coming together at just the right time, as hes scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent in March and could have his share of suitors on the open market provided the Packers dont first decide to lock him up long term.



In training camp he was the guy that was counted on because he was the guy that practiced. Pickett along with Jolly came in overweight and out of shape. They barely played in training camp and it showed early on when Marion Barber, Adrian Peterson, Michael Tuner, and Earnest Graham ran all over the Packers defense. You can't win anything in training camp, but you can lose something and Pickett did in my opinion.

I was quite the Pickett fan a year ago. I actually thought he should of gone to the Pro Bowl. I believe he was that good, but that was then and from what I've seen this year, I have little confidence he'll regain his 07 form again.

Now obviously letting go of Pickett would be an option only if Albert Haynesworth is signed which is probably wishful thinking anyways. However it is an option and one worth looking at. I also believe the Packers have to look into letting go of Johnny Jolly and drafting a DT in the 3rd round to fill that No. 4 rotational spot.

Basically I'm saying Hayneworth, Cole, Harrell, draft pick, and probably Alfred Malone would be the main five guys I bring into training camp with if I were the Packers.

Again though this depends on the signing of Haynesworth.
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all_about_da_packers
16 years ago


I believe Colin Cole is a free agent and he'll get starters money from some team. I hope the Packers. I actually read Packers Insiders believe as much. I think rightfully so. He's the hardest worker of any defensive lineman on the team. He shows the best burst and he's by far the hardest lineman on the team to move off the ball.

"porky88" wrote:



Yikes, I have a hard time thinking any team would offer Cole starter money. I simply don't rate him that highly, he's a great rotation player, a very effective one as he's proven this season, but simply put I don't think he has the talent to be a starter on a playoff bound team. I believe that hard work can only take you so far in the NFL, you have to have quite a bit of talent too. Cole, IMO, doesn't have a ton of talent, just enough to be a rotation player and excel at it.


Pickett along with Jolly came in overweight and out of shape. They barely played in training camp and it showed early on when Marion Barber, Adrian Peterson, Michael Tuner, and Earnest Graham ran all over the Packers defense.

"porky88" wrote:



I might be wrong, but I thought Jolly and Pickett came in out of shape last year, and then went on to have successful seasons. I remember that because it was the premise of an article on Jolly that produced the gem of a quote "I've never been on top" by Jolly.

However, your point about Pickett's laziness is duly noted. You make a good argument there, I'll accept that he isn't the most motivated / hungry (er, not the food type hungry) guy.



I also believe the Packers have to look into letting go of Johnny Jolly and drafting a DT in the 3rd round to fill that No. 4 rotational spot.

Basically I'm saying Hayneworth, Cole, Harrell, draft pick, and probably Alfred Malone would be the main five guys I bring into training camp with if I were the Packers.

Again though this depends on the signing of Haynesworth.

"porky88" wrote:




Hm, I don't think there would be a need to create cap space if Haynesworth signed, mainly because the Packers have put themselves in such good cap position. Although with Jennings and Collins entering the final year of their deals next year, the Packers might be right up against the cap.

Anyways, I quite like Jolly, I think he's a very instinctive player and the type of player that can fill the role that Corey Williams vacated last year. Last year, McCarthy talked about how Jolly was the most instinctive player on his d-line, just having a nack for tipping and knocking down balls thrown, and generating a push to collapse the pocket.

I think Jolly has been averaging somewhere around 45 snaps a game (read that stat in one of JSOnline articles), which is too much for him. If he comes down to about 20 snaps, he could be very effective. I still believe Pickett, for his strengths in taking up two blockers and stuffing the run, has to be a part of the solution moving forward.


Basically moving forward, assuming Haynesworth is signed I'd keep a rotation of Haynesworth/Pickett/Jolly/Cole/Jenkins.


I'd put Harrell on the IR right from the start of the season, and tell him he has the entire year to get his back problems and hip problems right. Basically I'd tell him to take his time rehabbing, and strengthening his back, to make sure he experiences no more pain. It's really unbelievable that he came out and admitted he hasn't been healthy since he was in high school, and the back has been a major issue with him since his college days.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago

I'd put Harrell on the IR right from the start of the season, and tell him he has the entire year to get his back problems and hip problems right.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



While I agree that Harrell was rushed back too quickly, I think we have to be realistic. This guy has been living with pain since his high-school days. (Which, incidentally, begs a number of questions: What caused the scouting lapse? Did he lie in his interviews? How did the physicals fail to uncover his longstanding problems, etc.?) I would support putting him on IR only on the understanding that he comes back the next season on a VERY short leash. Frankly, I think it would be in the best interests of the team to force him to compete for his job next season and if he doesn't make the cut, release him to open a roster slot for another player who can provide a more immediate impact.
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gotarace
16 years ago
When it comes to free agency i think the packers should also look for a stud Lb. Barnett coming off a season ending knee injury...hawk not playing to expected hype being the 5th pick in the draft. Chillar more of a role player not a every down lb. Makes me think a quality lb in free agency could go a long way in shoring up the wet paper bag defensive front for the packers.
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warhawk
16 years ago
I think Suggs would be a great option and I read somewhere that the way Baltimore pumps out defensive guys so regularly they probably won't pay him what other teams would feeling they can bring someone else up.

He will cost plenty but I don't think Ted can afford to settle this matter with a draft pick that will have to go thru a learning curve before being as affective as we need that position to be.
"The train is leaving the station."
all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

I think Suggs would be a great option and I read somewhere that the way Baltimore pumps out defensive guys so regularly they probably won't pay him what other teams would feeling they can bring someone else up.

"warhawk" wrote:



Suggs would definitely help, but I wonder how much it'll be if he is brought in solely as a DE.

We've got Jenkins at RE, who was playing some of his best football during his Packer tenure getting injured, and then you've got a very promising Jeremy Thompson behind him. Kamp's a lock on the left.

If Suggs is signed to play DE exclusively, where does that leave Jenkins? I think he's a much more effective run stopper from the RE position than DT, so shifting Jenkins to DT would be a less than ideal move IMO. Signing Suggs would certainly create a "good" problem of having too much talent on the d-line.

I'd love to see Suggs here, but perhaps as a LB/DE hybrid? Shift him to SLB in place of Popp, and then on passing downs shift him to RE. Really a similar type of role Julius Peterson has been used in, in Seattle.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
warhawk
16 years ago
Jenkins happens to be our best interior rusher. Since he plays both inside and out we have to get a bonafide RDE. Cullen can't play every down and if you remember he started coming outside because of the rush problems we had with KGB on early downs. Guys with the ability to create pressure from the DT position is rare and to me it's a waste to put him outside.

I think Jeremy Thompson may one day be a decent pass rusher but we cannot afford the mentality that he has what it takes to be that guy this next year. We need a guy we KNOW can do it and HAS done it and not risk another season of non-productivity from that position.

I would be ALL OVER getting Suggs in here and letting Cullen rest on 1st down and putting him inside on second and on third down and alternating him with Suggs at RDE when Suggs needs a rest.

We WILL get pressure from both sides and up the middle like we need.

I can tell you this and that is if Ted's answer to the poor pass rush defense is Jeremy Thompson on his promise well, that's not good enough for me. Not how badly that phase of the game hurt us this year.
"The train is leaving the station."
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