Zero2Cool
5 years ago

With all due respect, just the opposite is true, you don't value something you don't have to pay for. I want to take care of my family's healthcare and have choices to do so. I don't want to pay for anyone else's (other than veterans), especially when they dis-incentived to make healthy choices.

Originally Posted by: KRK 


No one (not an exaggeration) thought I'd go to college. When I did, I was asked how I got such good grades but poor grades in High School? In College they challenged me and I was paying i think $180 per hour!! In High School I would read the next question to get the answer to the one previous and it was free.

So, maybe you have a point there. I do feel getting an education shouldn't put you into debt for decades.
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KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
5 years ago
Z2C scrived (sorry, I am running out of alternative words to say 'wrote'):

So, maybe you have a point there. I do feel getting an education shouldn't put you into debt for decades.

So it boils down to value i.e. cost/benefit.

I have a very good friend, more like a brother who is a plumber. He started out as a laborer and is fully vested in their pension plan. Now he is fully vested in the pension plan of the plumbers union. He makes damn good money and will retire well. He worked his ass of and he earned it. He never went to college. He didn't take a loan for a four year frolic in order to find himself. He sacrificed.

His income suffered in two instances as he went through apprenticeship programs (which I think of as the blue collar university) He took the risk to forego income for the long-term opportunity. it worked because he worked.

Not everyone should go to a four year university. I did and to be honest there were about 10 courses worth taking. The rest were a waste of time and money.

As for the cost of college, the reason it costs so much is that colleges benefit by having it cost so much. Its a racquet. The federal government (i.e. YOU AND I) lend money so that poor saps can overpay for an over-priced education. Meanwhile the universities have billion dollar endowments and tenured professors many of whom do jack squat (and please, my sister was a tenured professor at a state university so I know how goofed up that system is as well.)

If their degree as so damn good and have so much value, why don't THEY, the Universities make the loans to kids and let THEM be responsible for collecting. WHY DO WE HAVE TO BE INVOLVED?!?!?

The point is MOST DEGREES ARE NOT WORTH THE MONEY!!!!

In life, choices matter. No one told you to have six kids out of wedlock. No one told you to do drugs. And no one forced someone to go to school.

Further, no one forced someone into a major like sociology, anthropology, comparative Aztec religions, earth sciences, music, or literature. THAT WAS A CHOICE. If the person who chose to incur the debt can't pay it, because the degree isn't worth it....THAT IS NO MY PROBLEM.

If you let the market address the problem, which it partially is....you will have fewer people incurring debt for bullshit degrees from crappy schools.

If however, you screw with market by having the government provide easy access to student loans, you will make more money available so that kids can make stupid choices. Those choices will never make monetary sense, and never pay off. Meanwhile, we will have more public employees who are part of a system of providing worthless degrees making more money with more retirement benefits.
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Zero2Cool
5 years ago
Trades are great. No one said four year degree. I'm saying they're too greedy.
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KRK
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  • Veteran Member
5 years ago
Per News Reports....Hilarious

Democrat presidential candidate Bernie Sanders announced this weekend he will cut staffers' hours so that they can effectively be paid a $15-an-hour minimum wage, prompting mockery from critics who say the move is more evidence that Sanders' plan to raise the national minimum wage is hypocritical and would only lead to less work and more unemployment....

Commentary follows:

"This situation is an instructive example of the downside of more than doubling the minimum wage," wrote The Blaze's Aaron Colen. "Companies don't just suddenly get more money to pay employees. They have to make tough decisions; usually either cutting hours, or worse, cutting staff."


In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Zero2Cool
5 years ago
When executives are earning less, that's when the bottom will increase. At least, it's one way.
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gbguy20
5 years ago
Vote Ron Paul
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
Cheesey
  • Cheesey
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5 years ago
First, as I said earlier, retail workers (not all of course) have bad attitudes. 2 days ago my wife was treated snotty at our local Kwik Trip. Had I been there and seen that, I would have gone midevil on his ass. There is NO excuse to treat a good natured customer like that. At the end he said “you don’t have to come here anymore”.
Chic filA was mentioned here. THEY know how to treat their customers AND employees. And they jettison any workers that have bad attitudes.

Another point that was made (by Zero, I think?) was about the company big wigs making ridiculous wages. That ALSO is a big thing that is sooo wrong.
I can understand a decent wage for a CEO, but do they really need millions while their employees get chicken feed? There is such a disconnect between big wigs and hourly employees. If you don’t think so, just watch a few “undercover boss” TV shows.
And....I can’t help but add this....Bernie Sanders, EVERY TIME I see him, I expect to hear “Hey! You kids GET OFF MY LAWN!!!”😂
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KRK
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5 years ago
Many CEO's are overpaid....but who is to say which, and by how much?

If I am a CEO, I work for shareholders....sorry, not employees. If a CEO can increase the market capitalization of his company by $1bb, he is worth $50mm....and I am not. His pay does not mean I am worth any more or any less. A CEO needs to balance the benefit of having good employees (and they are HUGE) with the cost of having crappy ones.

The real problem is short term stock incentives for CEOs incentivize them the make short term decisions, i.e. cut costs and, short-term drive the stock price up. If there were LONGER term incentives, they would, because of the cost benefit analysis, invest more in employees, and have longer-term incentives for employees as well ESOP's, Profit Sharing, etc.

The economics and politics of envyare never good. I don't like Jeff Bezos' politics but the SOB built a awesome company and is worth every nickel he makes. If I think he is overpaid, I can stop buying on Amazon, and make sure I don't use AWS, or start a competitor.


In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Porforis
5 years ago

Porforis opined: Partially agree. If this is a government fund to help the fatherless, motherless kids, and destitute in retirement. I agree. But if I have 10mm in trust fund, and have put $50k into the system, I shouldn't receive $2k/month for as long as I live after i reach 65. Its moronic. It can't mathematically function. And it is not fair to ask me or you to pay for such a person.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



Even if you don't do that, it won't mathematically function simply because of people paying in versus paying out. 1%ers collecting social security are a drop in the bucket compared to sheer money in versus out.

When I compare current rent of the place I rented, assuming it has been maintained, it is actually less, as percentage of income relative to the starting salaries of kids coming out of undergraduate programs with business degrees.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



That's a pretty weird way of comparing the two. Where are you getting the figures for average starting salaries for people coming out of undergrad programs with business degrees, and how is that average salary determined? First job in-field after graduation? First job after graduation? Best job after 2 years? Not so much doubting you as wanting to define what exactly you're saying as it could mean a lot of different things.

Further, when I look at how technology has improved the overall economy, from transportation to entertainment, it is hard for me to agree that people have a lower standard of living.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



People really aren't arguing that they have it shitty as far as transportation or entertainment goes. On the technology angle, when you (I'm assuming, no clue how old you are but I'm 32) and I were getting out of college, internet and a cellphone were not basically mandatory things you needed if you wanted to function in the world and apply for jobs. You're going to get weird looks if you don't list a cell number. Higher standard of living, but also higher expenses to reach that standard of living.

[list]

  • Why do you think retail is dying? A primary reason is crappy service. Your experience with Michaels, my wife experience yesterday at a bank...business owners get what they pay for. In your example of Michael, ownership pays through the ass for a lease, invests in inventory and then scrimps on labor. Customers get dissatisfied and buy on Amazon.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 


  • I don't really buy that. Some retail chains and food service joints invested heavily decades ago to buy up property (and actually have made a ton of money off of leasing properties themselves) and don't have magically better employees just because they own the property and aren't shelling out tons more over the long term on leases. Companies will always skimp on labor when they have the option and will pay the bare minimum. In low skill jobs with high turnover, that will be "always". Alas, employees that aren't paid much of anything.

    But that their issue, not my issue. Nor should the government involved.

  • Contrast that with the service you get at Chic-fil-a (sp?) Let's stay off the religious aspect....They pay minimum wage, but have college tuition help, meals, and other benefits. The give raises for good performance, etc. But if an employee has a crappy attitude, they are gone..

    Originally Posted by: KRK 


  • [/list]Also, let's be intellectually honest about who is paying. When anyone says "the goverment should pay" that should mean to all of us "YOU SHOULD PAY" (unless of course, you don't or don't play to pay taxes which is what people who have already made their money can do) I find it offensive and confiscatory when the answer to every societal problem is to tax the person who wants to get rich at a rate higher than everyone else pays.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 



    Nobody's suggesting to tax the people that want to get rich at a higher rate than everyone else pays. People suggest you make the people that already have long term wealth solidified pay more in taxes.

    If I work hard, take changes and make money, then I should enjoy the fruits of my labor. The federal government, other than the powers enumerated in the Constitution, should not ask me to pay a higher percentage of what I earn than anybody else.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 



    You're entitled to your opinion but I don't understand why these are mutually exclusive things. I also think you're somewhat conflating the marginal tax rate with effective tax rate. When I was starting out making $5.40 an hour at minimum wage, I had a negative effective tax rate. When I had gotten myself locked in at my first semi-professional big boy job and making $12/hour, I had a very low effective tax rate. After working my way up, making some professional connections, working my ass off some more and making $25/hour at my next job, I had a higher effective tax rate. One my wife started her own business and I started renting out our house, we're making more money however our effective rate is lower because of the additional deductions we have now. All of these things seem sane for me.

    For a corporation paying their employees an average income of $40,000, somehow I don't think it's crazy to expect that corporation to pay a little bit more of an effective tax rate than their average employee. Then again, you seem to be not a fan of progressive tax which... Not sure what to say about that on an economic level. You're an extreme outlier, and even the vast majority of conservatives acknowledge this is necessary.

    Now if I choose to live in a state that want to pay for everyone education, healthcare, cars, food, phone, and living quarters.....and I choose to have my ass taxed off by living there....great.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 



    Hey, there's something we can agree on. Unfortunately state rights conservatives don't seem to exist anymore and both parties seem obsessed with consolidating power at the federal level.
    KRK
    • KRK
    • Veteran Member
    5 years ago
    WSJ Article today...the market is addressing it.

    Restaurants Sweeten Pay and Perks to Find Scarce Workers
    Quit rate among food workers is higher than ever, forcing executives to get creative
    By Heather Haddon July 21, 2019 7:27 pm ET

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/restaurants-sweeten-pay-and-perks-to-find-scarce-workers-11563751663?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=7 

    Restaurants are sweetening pay packages and adding perks like more scheduling flexibility to attract and retain workers in the tightest job market in decades.

    Waiting tables and operating deep-fryers has long been some of the lowest-paid work in the U.S., and a rite of passage for students during the summer. This year, with unemployment at the lowest level in decades, restaurants are finding fewer students and lower-skilled workers willing to take those jobs.

    “I would describe working in restaurants as robotic,” said Aleena Solomon, a 17-year-old high-school student from Columbus, Ohio. Last summer she worked as a restaurant hostess, and this summer she was offered a job with Noodle & Co. She decided to take a paid internship with her aunt at a branding agency instead.

    Restaurants are also spending more on bonuses and changing payment practices. McDonald’s Corp. said it is using $150 million recouped from federal tax-code changes to expand its offering to pay for college scholarships for employees and their families.
    “That is a huge recruiting piece for us,” said Melissa Kersey, McDonald’s U.S. chief people officer.

    More than 7.5 million restaurant and hotel workers quit last year, the most since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began releasing that metric in 2001. Around 10.7 million food-service and hotel workers were hired last year, but there were an average of nearly 900,000 job openings in the restaurants and accommodation sector in each month of last year, a record, federal figures show. And quit rates this year are even higher.

    “The old way of thinking that people will work in any conditions to get a minimum wage just doesn’t work anymore,” said Luke Fryer, owner of a Manhattan burger restaurant and a former Burger King franchisee in Australia, who started the Harri restaurant workforce management site after struggling to hire and retain workers.

    A recent Harri survey of restaurant employers found that 85% reported half their staff turning over annually on average, incurring thousands of dollars in costs.

    Many restaurants are raising pay, of their own volition or by law. Nearly two dozen states and some big cities have raised minimum wages this year. U.S. hourly restaurant pay was $14.79 in May, the highest since that survey began in 2006, according to BLS figures that typically include tips. The National Restaurant Association predicts restaurant wages will rise 4.7% on average this year, outpacing total private-sector growth of 3.3%.

    Chipotle Mexican Grill Inc. last month instituted performance bonuses of a week’s pay for restaurant workers who help hit quarterly sales targets and other goals. Chipotle also expanded tuition-reimbursement earlier this year and extended some education benefits to employees’ family members. Chief People Officer Marissa Andrada said Chipotle has directed managers to discuss career development in their quarterly performance reviews for restaurant workers.

    “It’s showing an interest in people beyond this hourly job they have,” Ms. Andrada said.
    Checkers Drive-In Restaurants Inc. recently started giving all employees the option of receiving their pay in more regular increments than bimonthly checks, said Marna Killian, a human-resources executive at the Tampa, Fla.-based chain’s parent company.
    She said such sweeteners at its Checkers and Rally’s restaurants are necessary to compete with employers including Amazon.com Inc., which raised its minimum wage to $15 an hour last year. The federal minimum wage is $7.25. Checkers said its lowest hourly wages vary regionally and that the company has raised pay in places where competition is particularly intense.

    “Amazon pays $15, and you are not in a hot, 900-square-foot box,” Ms. Killian said, referring to a fast-food restaurant. “Our jobs are hard.”

    Some restaurants are devising other incentives to boost retention and staff satisfaction.
    Noodles & Co. recently enhanced its parental-leave policies, while Mighty Quinn’s BBQ in New York is trying to bolster loyalty in its employees by rewarding top performers with manning the company’s food booth at concerts, co-founder Micha Magid said.
    “You can go get a paycheck anywhere,” said Mr. Magid, who has hired about 25 workers so far this summer, up around 20% from last year.

    Dave & Buster’s Entertainment Inc., meanwhile, is offering prizes to workers who sell more menu specials or game cards at the video-arcade chain.

    And franchisees of chains including Applebee’s and Burger King have hired app developer ShiftOne to create an incentive system with the feel of a videogame that gives rewards such as free meals and more scheduling flexibility to employees who receive strong satisfaction scores from customers they serve, the tech company said.

    “They want to have fun,” ShiftOne President Ashish Gambhir said.
    Write to Heather Haddon at heather.haddon@wsj.com


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