Zero2Cool
6 years ago

This is sickening. bunch of hindsight warriors.

What was said about both Hayward and Hyde was it would be nice to keep them, but for the salary they got paid, it was the right move to let them go. You don't pay your 3rd string and backups 5 and 6 million dollars.

They are both playing on better overall defenses than is in GB. If you think either of them would have been a big difference in this defenses performance, you better lay off the drugs.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Where in my post did I say we should have kept them?
UserPostedImage
shield4life
6 years ago
Remember on how people bash that Ted Thompson doesn't bring enough talent. I keep saying it over and over again, it won't matter who you bring on this defense. The scheme is simply broken.

These 2 players we're at best average in GB ... left and now both in the pro bowl.

Dom Capers doesn't bring the best out of the talent, he bases himself more on his scheme vs using the talent to get the job done.

He needs to go if we want another chance @ the SB.
Glad To Be A Packers Fan.
PackFanWithTwins
6 years ago
I'm really glad people on this site are not in charge of personnel decisions for the Packers.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
DoddPower
6 years ago

This is sickening. bunch of hindsight warriors.

What was said about both Hayward and Hyde was it would be nice to keep them, but for the salary they got paid, it was the right move to let them go. You don't pay your 3rd string and backups 5 and 6 million dollars.

They are both playing on better overall defenses than is in GB. If you think either of them would have been a big difference in this defenses performance, you better lay off the drugs.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



This silly logic. Most or all of us are casual fans. We are not being paid millions of dollars for a career as a talent evaluator and/or coach to find and retain the best talent, and provide them with the best coaching to maximize that talent. Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, Dom Capers, et al are. Something is clearly not working somewhere in that process as Casey Hayward clearly has the talent to be one of the top cornerbacks in the league. If this organization can't make things work with the players they have, and there are indications that players are not able to showcase their talent in Dom's scheme (see Casey's tweet), then it's more than fair for fans to criticize in hindsight.

Other organizations are making things work with these players and the Packers are not. It's all fair game. Even if some fans thought it made sense at the time, that doesn't absolve it ultimately being viewed as a mistake in the long run. Again, that's why those guys are paid millions as their life's work to figure these things out while the rest of us are grinding away at our own careers. We give credit to the Packers for letting go of players when the time is right. We can criticize them when they ultimately make critical mistakes. From the sounds of it, Casey and Hyde are thrilled to be out of Green Bay. I can't blame them.
beast
6 years ago

This is sickening. bunch of hindsight warriors.

What was said about both Hayward and Hyde was it would be nice to keep them, but for the salary they got paid, it was the right move to let them go. You don't pay your 3rd string and backups 5 and 6 million dollars.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 


I wanted to resigned Hayward while he was still a Packer, if he was willing to resign for less than $5.5 million. Nothing hindsight about it for me.

In today's NFL, the slot guy is basically a starter because all 32 teams play a lot with at least 5 DBs on the field.

UserPostedImage
DoddPower
6 years ago

I wanted to resigned Hayward while he was still a Packer, if he was willing to resign for less than $5.5 million. Nothing hindsight about it for me.

In today's NFL, the slot guy is basically a starter because all 32 teams play a lot with at least 5 DBs on the field.

Originally Posted by: beast 



Doesn't matter anyway. Fans can use hindsight. But those that are getting paid don't get a pass for obvious mistakes just because it made a little more sense at the time. A mistake is a mistake, and we need to hope the Packers organization that has insight based on the first hand knowledge doesn't make these kind of mistakes.

Ultimately, I think the talent on the Packers defense is and has been sufficient to field a consistently average defense, at minimum. At times, possibly better. The failure largely stems from the coaching, in my opinion. Although the defense also needs better talent because average isn't good enough either.
beast
6 years ago

Doesn't matter anyway. Fans can use hindsight. But those that are getting paid don't get a pass for obvious mistakes just because it made a little more sense at the time. A mistake is a mistake, and we need to hope the Packers organization that has insight based on the first hand knowledge doesn't make these kind of mistakes.

Ultimately, I think the talent on the Packers defense is and has been sufficient to field a consistently average defense, at minimum. At times, possibly better. The failure largely stems from the coaching, in my opinion. Although the defense also needs better talent because average isn't good enough either.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



I think it's larger than a mistake... there was a decision that had to be made... man coverage, or zone coverage.

Packers have decided to go with man coverage for a long time (even before MM)... and their best CB, Sam Shields specialty was man coverage, so with that in mind, Hayward doesn't make the best fit, as he seems to be a zone CB. They probably thought it didn't make sense to keep one of both, a man coverage specialist and a zone coverage specialist. Of course, the Packers then didn't realize Shields would get a career ending injury as soon as Hayward left.

The Shields and Collins career ending injuries have really set the Packers DB back at different times...

UserPostedImage
DoddPower
6 years ago

I think it's larger than a mistake... there was a decision that had to be made... man coverage, or zone coverage.

Packers have decided to go with man coverage for a long time (even before MM)... and their best CB, Sam Shields specialty was man coverage, so with that in mind, Hayward doesn't make the best fit, as he seems to be a zone CB. They probably thought it didn't make sense to keep one of both, a man coverage specialist and a zone coverage specialist. Of course, the Packers then didn't realize Shields would get a career ending injury as soon as Hayward left.

The Shields and Collins career ending injuries have really set the Packers DB back at different times...

Originally Posted by: beast 



The Packers need to be more flexible, which comes right back to my point about coaching. Great players are incredibly difficult to come by in the NFL, especially with a massive QB salary, often drafting late in each round, and multiple draft busts and few free agents. When the Packers find good players, they need to find ways to maximize their talent. It the Packers were better at drafting this wouldn't be as big of a deal, but overall they aren't, at least not in the past several years.

The Packers reek of stubbornness to their detriment.
steveishere
6 years ago

I think it's larger than a mistake... there was a decision that had to be made... man coverage, or zone coverage.

Packers have decided to go with man coverage for a long time (even before MM)... and their best CB, Sam Shields specialty was man coverage, so with that in mind, Hayward doesn't make the best fit, as he seems to be a zone CB. They probably thought it didn't make sense to keep one of both, a man coverage specialist and a zone coverage specialist. Of course, the Packers then didn't realize Shields would get a career ending injury as soon as Hayward left.

The Shields and Collins career ending injuries have really set the Packers DB back at different times...

Originally Posted by: beast 


Hayward plays pretty much all man coverage in SD. I wouldn't be surprised if they play more man than we do.
PackFanWithTwins
6 years ago

This silly logic. Most or all of us are casual fans. We are not being paid millions of dollars for a career as a talent evaluator and/or coach to find and retain the best talent, and provide them with the best coaching to maximize that talent. Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, Dom Capers, et al are. Something is clearly not working somewhere in that process as Casey Hayward clearly has the talent to be one of the top cornerbacks in the league. If this organization can't make things work with the players they have, and there are indications that players are not able to showcase their talent in Dom's scheme (see Casey's tweet), then it's more than fair for fans to criticize in hindsight.

Other organizations are making things work with these players and the Packers are not. It's all fair game. Even if some fans thought it made sense at the time, that doesn't absolve it ultimately being viewed as a mistake in the long run. Again, that's why those guys are paid millions as their life's work to figure these things out while the rest of us are grinding away at our own careers. We give credit to the Packers for letting go of players when the time is right. We can criticize them when they ultimately make critical mistakes. From the sounds of it, Casey and Hyde are thrilled to be out of Green Bay. I can't blame them.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



It is/was working. Hayward had the talent and was developed to a level where another team that needed to fill a position was willing to sign and pay him. The only thing that slowed his development was his own injuries and not being able to stay on the field. Had he been able to practice and play more, he might have improved enough to earn a starting spot while on the team. Had he done that the Packers would not have drafted as heavily at CB and Hayward would probably be on the team today.

The Packers converted Hyde a CB out of college into a starting level Safety. He also wasn't going to be a starter so he was not worth the amount to the Packers as others were willing to pay.

If neither of them can be thankful for the Packers making them into players other teams would be willing to pay 5-6 million dollars a year then screw them, they are not people I would want around.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
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Zero2Cool (6h) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (20h) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
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