luigis
8 years ago

No one is disputing that, are they? No.

Let me be clear. I am saying we didn't lose that game because the coach was "ULTRA MEGA DUPER conservative".

This is where I'm coming from.

Seahawks
2014 15.9 (1st)
2013 14.4 (1st)
2012 15.3 (1st)

That means they don't give up many points.
That means when you can put points on the board, you put points on the board.
That means when you had three shots at (or inside) the 7 yard line (this happened TWICE) and fail to get a TD, you take the points.

What indication do you have that you're going to get it with one more try against the leagues best defense? You take the points.

Saying the score should have been 21 - 0, 28 - 0 at halftime? That's showing no respect to the other team and in my opinion, flat out wrong to do. Seattle was number one for multiple years for a reason!

Morgan Burnett sliding after his late 4th quarter interception was cowardly? I mean, seriously? COWARDLY? He was being instructed to slide by Julius Peppers, not Mike McCarthy. That's on the player, not the coach being conservative.

You're up by 12 points with 5 minutes left. You burn the clock and the other teams timeouts, obviously.

Punting the ball 30 yards? That's on the player, not the coach being conservative.

Bostick ignoring his responsibility on the onsides kick? That's on the player, not the coach being conservative.

Make no mistake about it, I do think McCarthy gets conservative at times. It's just not the reason we lost vs Seahawks in 2014 season. The Players had multiple opportunities to seal that game and failed.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



It is clear that the players failed to execute but that doesn't mean the coaching was aggressive, because the opposite of conservatism is aggression and you have to agree we didn't show any aggressive move in the whole game.

From the 1 yard line many many many coaches will go for it, Mike kicked a FG twice!
And then from midfield you almost have a chance to win the game if you can get 1 freaking yard, you have Aaron Rodgers and Eddie Lacy and you punt to get 26 yards of field, tell me this isn't a lame call...
Finally you say we were milking the clock but in practice Mike kneeled down 3 times with 4 minutes left on the clock to just give the opponent the chance to win the game, again, having Rodgers as the QB.

Luis
Zero2Cool
8 years ago

It is clear that the players failed to execute but that doesn't mean the coaching was aggressive, because the opposite of conservatism is aggression and you have to agree we didn't show any aggressive move in the whole game.

From the 1 yard line many many many coaches will go for it, Mike kicked a FG twice!
And then from midfield you almost have a chance to win the game if you can get 1 freaking yard, you have Aaron Rodgers and Eddie Lacy and you punt to get 26 yards of field, tell me this isn't a lame call...
Finally you say we were milking the clock but in practice Mike kneeled down 3 times with 4 minutes left on the clock to just give the opponent the chance to win the game, again, having Rodgers as the QB.

Originally Posted by: luigis 



I just don't think it's that black and white that you're either aggressive OR conservative. I believe there's an area in-between.

Nearly every coach kicks the FG, especially vs the number one defense in the NFL. The only coach who would go for it would be Bill Belichick or maybe Ron Rivera, lol.

Stop it, lol. They didn't punt to get 26 yards of field. They punted to pin the opponent further back, but the PLAYER failed to do so.

When there was 4 minutes or less left in the game, the Packers marched from the 22 to the other side of the field to make a tying FG that sent it into over time. Your make one freaking yard to win the game doesn't make sense because no where does that apply.

As for Mike kneeling down, no, the Packers ran three runs (mistakenly) out of the Shotgun formation that ate up Seattle's timeouts. The ensuing Punt went 30 yards. The punter failed there. Now, I said mistakenly out of Shotgun because even with QB having a gimpy calf, I would rather see Eddie Lacy running the ball when Rodgers is under center. Also, I would have liked a play action pass on 3rd down instead of a 3rd Shotgun formation run.
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DarkaneRules
8 years ago
Mike's a great coach. Sometimes situationally he can get a little hay-wire but I've never seen a coach who hasn't done that every once in a while. I'm so thankful to have him coaching out beloved Packers.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Barfarn
8 years ago
In Seattle, on the first FG, we had the ball 2nd and Goal at 1 and failed twice [2 runs]. So what makes one think the result would be different on 4th and 1? Seattle is like Uffda Ufda; 100% pure emotion. These guys get revved-up on offense or defense and they are hard to stop, then they slink off and are very beatable; pure Jekyll and Hyde, they’re juiced! If we get stopped on 4th and 1; it would have really charged ‘em up. Kick the FG and it deflates them a bit. Taking the lead early, deflates them a bit. Also, after getting stuffed twice, not sure how confident the Offense was. It was the right call to kick FG.

The 2nd one Mike had more latitude. That week GB scripted probably a half dozen 3rd/4th and short plays. He used 2 already, the other 4 were probably passes that played off having converted earlier 3rd/4th and short runs [This is how advanced Mike’s thinking is]. Also, Seattle may have thrown in some short yardage unscouted looks. That may have been why the 2 runs failed and/or Rodgers didn’t check to a pass. Mike weighed the plays he had his guys prepared to run against the way Seattle was playing and he didn’t like the odds, so he took the sure 3. Now, GB is up by 6, Seattle is not in panic mode, they're actually quite complacent being only down 6 and GB having had 3 trips in scoring range. This is where you want them; not revved up because they got a stop and if odds are long to get 7; you get a sure three an Seattle's complacency.

There’s a fine line between being aggressive and a degenerate gambler, Mike’s refusal to be a degenerate gambler worked, GB built an insurmountable 16-0 lead.

McCarthy is ULTRA aggressive. All stats on the WSJ show he’s aggressive; you folks need to try to get a look at a GB playbook, he is insanely aggressive and insanely innovative. No offense has such an aggressive oriented passing attack NONE! Think about this: the play is called, the snap is made and some plays call for WRs to run his route up to 4 different ways depending on the reaction of the D post-snap. Now that is aggressive, it’s one of his core attributes.

As an offensive genius, do you think he doesn’t know what you know about the “prevent offense” and its affects? I just don’t by that he goes conservative when he gets a lead; its an affront to his core behavior. I said this the other day; Mike sends in a play, probably a run, because we want to run out the clock; but he can’t see the D alignments. But EVERY run play has a check to a pass, plus Rodgers can call an audible. The only way Mike can limit Rodgers is personnel. If Rodgers gets, 1 TE, 2 FB and 2 OT reporting eligible, he’s limited. But, short of that if the play is conservative; it is 100% on Rodgers. And this makes sense, Rodgers is horrible at executing the offense in the 4th Q of close games, Horrible! All of Rodgers’ bravado is really insecurity; Rodgers is insecure in big close games. Mike doesn’t go conservative, Rodgers does; and Rodgers did in Seattle.

PS: Peppers did exactly what the coaches were thinking or yelling on Burnett's INT. Seattle was beyond desperate; you dont want guys like Baldwin , Wilson or Kearse coming from behind or otherwise out of nowhere knocking out the ball. Burnett is a safety; Rodgers moves the ball.
mi_keys
8 years ago

mi_keys- does McCarthy get credit for calling blitzes? I have no doubt that he and Dom talk general concepts about how they want to approach a team. But I can't accept the fact that he tells his DC he wants to blitz more or less. Or even go into a prevent defense. Mike may tell the DC that he is playing too soft too soon or too aggressive in a game but other than that I can't see him getting into any kind of specifics.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I think you allude to why the WSJ include both sides of the ball in play calling in reviewing coaches. I'd agree McCarthy isn't likely telling Dom to run specific plays in specific cases. This is true for all head coaches on at least one side of the ball, if not both. But even where head coaches do not call individual plays, I imagine they are at the very least involved in high level strategy and game planning. If a coordinator calling the plays is too conservative/aggressive for the head coach's liking, then the head coach is going to do something about it. An individual play call may not reflect the head coach, but the aggregate of all play calls will.

What about the offense? Does this take into consideration a HC trying to burn the clock for the whole second half of a game that he is going away from the type of offense that got the team the lead. And that he has become very predicable by calling running plays almost exclusively? Especially one 1st and 2nd downs. That the play calls have put them into 3rd ad very long time after time?

If it survey doesn't factor these into his dynamics then their data is suspect.



Predictability and conservatism are not necessarily the same. You call deep passes and blitzes on every play. That would be both aggressive and predictable.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Nonstopdrivel
8 years ago

GB built an insurmountable 16-0 lead.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 


Anyone who thinks a 16-point lead is "insurmountable" is a fool (hell, I once watched Peyton Manning score three touchdowns in 18 seconds). I prefer to think Mike McCarthy isn't a fool.
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Rick12
8 years ago

Mike's a great coach. Sometimes situationally he can get a little hay-wire but I've never seen a coach who hasn't done that every once in a while. I'm so thankful to have him coaching out beloved Packers.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 

The GM of this team has been little help in season to the HC that is the Main Problem with the Packers the last few years !😢

+1
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
8 years ago
I wasn't thrilled with the 4th down attempt in the 3rd Q but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I guess Mike wanted to go out of his way to prove to ll of us that he isn't conservative.

The play they called was horrible. NYG had 9 guys in the box. I would have preferred to have Ty fake inside and then bounce it outside to the left. The receiver - I didn't see who it was- was taking the defender with him so it was open outside. The right side wasn't.

Perhaps it would have made more sense to run a fake punt to the up blocker. If it failed he would have still been about where Montgomery ended up. At least the middle of the line would have wouldn't have been packed to tight.
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Porforis
8 years ago

I wasn't thrilled with the 4th down attempt in the 3rd Q but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I guess Mike wanted to go out of his way to prove to ll of us that he isn't conservative.

The play they called was horrible. NYG had 9 guys in the box. I would have preferred to have Ty fake inside and then bounce it outside to the left. The receiver - I didn't see who it was- was taking the defender with him so it was open outside. The right side wasn't.

Perhaps it would have made more sense to run a fake punt to the up blocker. If it failed he would have still been about where Montgomery ended up. At least the middle of the line would have wouldn't have been packed to tight.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I mostly liked the call. The defense was playing the best they had all year, momentum was swinging back to the Packers and they had a chance to completely take control of the game.

But I agree that the call was horrible. Sneak Rodgers up the gut or roll him out on a pass play and give him the option to throw it or scramble for the first. Those delayed outside runs NEVER WORK.
Nonstopdrivel
8 years ago
As I said during the game, it didn't bother me at all that he went for it on fourth down. It didn't even bother me that he called a run -- statistically, that was the right call. What irked me was that there was no attempt at misdirection at all. They defense was bunched up the middle and they ran it up the gut instead of taking advantage of thin coverage on the edge. In the end, it didn't matter, though. Green Bay destroyed New York.
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