earthquake
9 years ago
It has nothing to do with liking your argument or not. I do not accept your opinions as valid because, as far as I know, they can not be checked in any manner. How do I verify that DC's do not fear Jordy Nelson? How do I verify that other WRs are doubled at a significantly higher rate than Jordy Nelson? Even if I could do the latter, how do I separate this into a metric that accounts for individual performance vs systemic factors (such as GB's offense being designed to spread the ball around, thus making it hard to consistently double any one player)?

If you understand the scientific method to any degree, you would realize that you must check your assumptions to make sure they are correct before presenting an argument. If you can't even check them, how do you expect anyone to see them as valid?

We played this game the other day. If you can actually substantiate your claims I'll be happy to consider your points.
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uffda udfa
9 years ago

It has nothing to do with liking your argument or not. I do not accept your opinions as valid because, as far as I know, they can not be checked in any manner. How do I verify that DC's do not fear Jordy Nelson? How do I verify that other WRs are doubled at a significantly higher rate than Jordy Nelson? Even if I could do the latter, how do I separate this into a metric that accounts for individual performance vs systemic factors (such as GB's offense being designed to spread the ball around, thus making it hard to consistently double any one player)?

If you understand the scientific method to any degree, you would realize that you must check your assumptions to make sure they are correct before presenting an argument. If you can't even check them, how do you expect anyone to see them as valid?

We played this game the other day. If you can actually substantiate your claims I'll be happy to consider your points.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



I asked you a simple question about RC18...did you answer? No.

I presented factually verifiable data that Jordy is NOT paid like a #1 WR. Why? Because he isn't.

Why did the Packers offer Greg Jennings more long before Jordy got his extension?

Can you answer any of these simple questions? You can...but you won't and are trying to hide behind some concocted high brow reasoning while simplicity escapes you.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
9 years ago

I asked you a simple question about RC18...did you answer? No.

I presented factually verifiable data that Jordy is NOT paid like a #1 WR. Why? Because he isn't.

Why did the Packers offer Greg Jennings more long before Jordy got his extension?

Can you answer any of these simple questions? You can...but you won't and are trying to hide behind some concocted high brow reasoning while simplicity escapes you.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



You're throwing out questions with dubious relation to the topic at hand to try and distract from the fact that you've got nothing but subjective opinion based on conjecture that you're touting as truth with the fervor of a religious extremist or conspiracy theorist.

But I'll bite. Randal Cobb having significantly more production that other players on his team wouldn't necessarily make him a legit #1 WR (for the purposes of this I'll assume #1 WR means top 15 in the NFL, and elite means top 5). If he has significantly more production than anyone else on the team, and has performance that compares well to his NFL peers, yes I would consider him a legit #1.

Cobb's production in 2014 puts him at a #1-ish level, but that alone does not make him a legit #1 in my mind. He most likely benefited from having Nelson on the team taking away attention he would otherwise see. I can't tell you this for sure, because once again, I do not have access to any data that makes this clear. Now, in 2015 we can assume this will not be the case and that Cobb will be the focus of the offense, if he puts up similar or better numbers in 2015 as he did in 2014, he makes a strong case for being a legit #1.

RE: Greg Jennings, this one is basically impossible to answer without knowing the scouting information they had on both players, and being in the room when the contract was being negotiated. At the time when Jennings was offered that contract Jordy Nelson wasn't exactly a proven player, and they thought Jennings had a few years of good production in him. That would be my best guess to explain. But again, I don't have anywhere near enough information to come to a conclusion here so what I think on the matter is entirely worthless. Contracts don't always reflect production level in hindsight, and veteran players often get paid more than they probably should relative to production (see: Donald Driver the final few years of his career), so I really fail to see what this question has to do with, well, anything.

Now, please explain how you can objectively prove any of what you've claimed.
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uffda udfa
9 years ago

You're throwing out questions with dubious relation to the topic at hand to try and distract from the fact that you've got nothing but subjective opinion based on conjecture that you're touting as truth with the fervor of a religious extremist or conspiracy theorist.

But I'll bite. Randal Cobb having significantly more production that other players on his team wouldn't necessarily make him a legit #1 WR (for the purposes of this I'll assume #1 WR means top 15 in the NFL, and elite means top 5). If he has significantly more production than anyone else on the team, and has performance that compares well to his NFL peers, yes I would consider him a legit #1.

Cobb's production in 2014 puts him at a #1-ish level, but that alone does not make him a legit #1 in my mind. He most likely benefited from having Nelson on the team taking away attention he would otherwise see. I can't tell you this for sure, because once again, I do not have access to any data that makes this clear. Now, in 2015 we can assume this will not be the case and that Cobb will be the focus of the offense, if he puts up similar or better numbers in 2015 as he did in 2014, he makes a strong case for being a legit #1.

RE: Greg Jennings, this one is basically impossible to answer without knowing the scouting information they had on both players, and being in the room when the contract was being negotiated. At the time when Jennings was offered that contract Jordy Nelson wasn't exactly a proven player, and they thought Jennings had a few years of good production in him. That would be my best guess to explain. But again, I don't have anywhere near enough information to come to a conclusion here so what I think on the matter is entirely worthless. Contracts don't always reflect production level in hindsight, and veteran players often get paid more than they probably should relative to production (see: Donald Driver the final few years of his career), so I really fail to see what this question has to do with, well, anything.

Now, please explain how you can objectively prove any of what you've claimed.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 




http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/jordy-nelson/ 

Randall who is 1ish to you just signed a very similar deal. Why did Dallas and Denver just sign Dez Bryant and Demaryius Thomas to deals that absolutely dwarf both Jordy and RC18's deals? Dez and Demaryius are #1's... Jordy and Randall ain't. Feel free to use spotrac.com to look at all the numbers yourself. Heck, paranerd loves to brag that we got two for the price of one when discussing not having Dez on our roster. I guess we can argue forever about this as I can't change your opinion but the opinion of those who are paid millions to give out millions is that Demaryius and Dez are #1 WR's and Jordy and Randall aren't.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
9 years ago

Playing for the Green Bay Packers is a privilege and because Ted Thompson is a stellar General Manager who is masterful at contracts.

Why did Dallas and Denver just sign Dez Bryant and Demaryius Thomas to deals that absolutely dwarf both Jordy and RC18's deals?

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 


Playing for the Broncos or Cowboys requires a personal sacrifice of which one needs to be overly compensated to do so and because John Elway and Jerry Jones are not that smart.
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Playing for the Green Bay Packers is a privilege and because Ted Thompson is a stellar General Manager who is masterful at contracts. --- I hope this was a joke. Players play for money and or the ability to win championships. They ain't in Green Bay because they love Green Bay.


Playing for the Broncos or Cowboys requires a personal sacrifice of which one needs to be overly compensated to do so and because John Elway and Jerry Jones are not that smart.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

---More sentimentalism as a Packers fan. If you asked all NFL players where they'd like to play NFL football and let's assume they're all 8-8 teams... Green Bay finishes dead last by a landslide.




UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


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Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
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dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
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dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
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Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
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