Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
IMO if you don't think you need to improve much, you won't.

Fortunately for the Packers, as of the end of the 2015 season all of the three stooges (i.e. other NFCN teams) need to improve a lot to offer a serious threat to the Packers. If I were the sort that still bet on sports outcome, I'd put a big chunk of the Packers winning the division yet again this year.

Unfortunately, the Packers should not be measuring themselves against teams who have to improve a lot. They should be measuring themselves against the teams who they might face that *don't* have to improve a lot. Not teams whose best hope for a playoff spot is a wild card, but NFC teams who are serious competition for the NFC championship and AFC teams who are potential Super Bowl opponents.

I think Minnesota and Chicago had better drafts than GB. But in the end, that's not a big deal to me, because I think Minnesota and Chicago are at least 2 years away from serious divisional competition if the Packers play up to their ability.

But has GB improved relative to those other championship contenders?




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
beast
10 years ago


If the Vikings DL can hold together, they're going to be a pain in the butt to play with all good coverage guys... add to the fact it looks like they're going to have a passing game to go with Peterson this year and I think it's fair to say they're going to get a shot at the division this coming year.

I think it'll be the Packers and Vikings battling for the division, though I really dislike that the Bears were able to get Goldman in the 2nd, I think he's going to be very good.
UserPostedImage
DoddPower
10 years ago

IMO if you don't think you need to improve much, you won't.

Fortunately for the Packers, as of the end of the 2015 season all of the three stooges (i.e. other NFCN teams) need to improve a lot to offer a serious threat to the Packers. If I were the sort that still bet on sports outcome, I'd put a big chunk of the Packers winning the division yet again this year.

Unfortunately, the Packers should not be measuring themselves against teams who have to improve a lot. They should be measuring themselves against the teams who they might face that *don't* have to improve a lot. Not teams whose best hope for a playoff spot is a wild card, but NFC teams who are serious competition for the NFC championship and AFC teams who are potential Super Bowl opponents.

I think Minnesota and Chicago had better drafts than GB. But in the end, that's not a big deal to me, because I think Minnesota and Chicago are at least 2 years away from serious divisional competition if the Packers play up to their ability.

But has GB improved relative to those other championship contenders?



Originally Posted by: Wade 



Eh, fans don't have to hold the same standard as the actual organization. I have no doubt the Packers organization knows they need to improve. C'mon. A team can NEVER reach a point where they are good enough. It's an unobtainable goal. No coach or general manager would make it with that attitude. A team might be "good enough" to win a game on a given week, but it's immediately time to turn the attention to the next week, season, player, contract, etc.

I think you really have to come to terms with the draft and develop philosophy (if you already have, it sometimes just doesn't seem like it). This is what it is, and the Packers organization adheres to it tightly. It's very unlikely to change because it's the fundamental philosophy of this administration. They will live and die by that sword, if you will. It will either win them another championship or two, or they will sputter and all retire/get fired and the organization with start over. If that happens, the next administration that is hired will likely have a mandate to take a slightly different path. If one vehemently disagrees with this current philosophy, they should probably hope that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy get fired or retire soon. Because things aren't likely to change otherwise.

It's fine to disagree with the philosophy, but it's also important to accept it for what it is. The Packers are strong in their conviction, be it right or wrong. They are very likely never going to sign a lot of free agents, make many (or any) substantial trades, or become highly aggressive with the draft or future draft picks. They are going to draft young players and rely on those players to improve as they mature in the system. That's the main source of immediate improvement that the Packers rely on. It's just the way it is. I rather like it, but I think a few more signings like Julius Peppers would be useful. Having more guys like him come around every couple of seasons is generally a good thing. But overall, I'm fine with the approach. Much more often than not, it makes a lot of sense. All the Packers need to do is draft better or get lucky and land two-to-three more good-to-very good players and this team has no excuse to not win another championship. I think that's a reasonable goal, but they do need to find those few additional players.

Ultimately, it just comes down to needing to draft a little better. I think Ted Thompson is a good drafter, and he runs a great organization from a business perspective. But if he just drafted a little better, the Packers could be a different team. I don't think it's as much an issue with the philosophy. It's always a matter of execution.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
Sigh....I *do* believe in the draft-and-develop idea.

I just don't like:
1. Putting as many eggs in that basket as Ted Thompson does; and
2. The failure (more on my fellow fans part than on TT's) to recognize that the amount of weight put on draft-and-develop can change how important a particular draft can sometimes be to short run improvement.

As, IMO, it does this year.

I don't give a damn right now whether this year's drafts turn out to be all pro in 2016 or 2017 or 2099. I care about whether this *TEAM* this *YEAR* improves enough over last year. For example, I want a team that scares Seattle or at least gives them a lot more to worry about; I don't want a team that depends on finessing Seattle to beat them.

Ted has been GM for a decade now. There is no way he should be acting as if last year's roster is going to improve enough to get that improvement. And I'd like to believe that he doesn't. I do, however, think that some of his fans here do, and that they think that is okay.

And that, sir, bugs the crap out of me.

I agree with everyone that Ted knows light years more than I do. And I hope like hell he got this draft right and proved me wrong as he has done multiple times before.

But until I see a Bahktiari give what I think a LT should give to the team, until I see a Barrington or a Bradford or a Hayward or a Hyde or a Quarless or a (Richard) Rodgers give what I think the team ought to be getting at their respective positions, I'm going to bitch when I don't see Ted bringing in more competition for those positions on the current depth chart.

Maybe they have what it takes. Hope so. Maybe some of the draftees /UDFAs will provide real competition. Hope so on that as well.

Because, right now, that's all the team's got to choose from to get that competition. Last years roster, rookies, and UDFAs.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DoddPower
10 years ago

Sigh....I *do* believe in the draft-and-develop idea.

I just don't like:
1. Putting as many eggs in that basket as Ted Thompson does; and
2. The failure (more on my fellow fans part than on TT's) to recognize that the amount of weight put on draft-and-develop can change how important a particular draft can sometimes be to short run improvement.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I really can't comprehend why some people get so annoyed by how other sports fans perceive and enjoy sports. It makes no sense. It's entertainment. Most of us have no real connection to it beyond simply following the sport. Most of us don't have close family members on the team, although some know a few players. Fans aren't going to change how they enjoy the game so I'm not sure why so many talk them out of what they enjoy or substantially change their perspectives. All that matters is that they derive joy from the sport. Nothing else matters, whether you, me, or anyone else agrees with it or not.

I don't give a damn right now whether this year's drafts turn out to be all pro in 2016 or 2017 or 2099. I care about whether this *TEAM* this *YEAR* improves enough over last year. For example, I want a team that scares Seattle or at least gives them a lot more to worry about; I don't want a team that depends on finessing Seattle to beat them.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Last years team was more than capable of beating Seattle. It just didn't work out, but that was an exceptional situation. If all the Packers did was maintain their current talent level, or possibly even got slightly worse, they are STILL more than capable of beating Seattle, and any other team in the league. Aaron Rodgers being healthy it's more than enough improvement.

But that still wasn't the point of my post. Ted's particular philosophy of draft and develop relies improvement from within as the main source of team improvement. As in this "*TEAM* this *YEAR*." It's just the way this organization currently is, for better or for worse. It's fine to hope and wish things were different. But it's also important to realize that it's highly unlikely and Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy will sink or swim with this philosophy of depending on improvement within.

Ted has been GM for a decade now. There is no way he should be acting as if last year's roster is going to improve enough to get that improvement. And I'd like to believe that he doesn't. I do, however, think that some of his fans here do, and that they think that is okay.

And that, sir, bugs the crap out of me.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



See my quote above. I really cannot understand why other fans perspectives bother you so much. I understand we all have quirks that bug us, but this just doesn't seem like anything positive. At all. Obviously all fans view things differently, just as you do. Express your opinions and debate them when it comes up, but don't let it bug crap out of you. What's the point? That seems as futile as trying to substantially change the food someone likes to eat or the music they enjoy. Sure, some new things may be discovered, but in general, people are going to like what they like regardless of others opinions. It's certainly not worth stressing about.

I agree with everyone that Ted knows light years more than I do. And I hope like hell he got this draft right and proved me wrong as he has done multiple times before.

But until I see a Bahktiari give what I think a LT should give to the team, until I see a Barrington or a Bradford or a Hayward or a Hyde or a Quarless or a (Richard) Rodgers give what I think the team ought to be getting at their respective positions, I'm going to bitch when I don't see Ted bringing in more competition for those positions on the current depth chart.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Again, if bitching makes you feel better, go for it. But Ted and company are going to keep doing what they have been doing for years now. It is not likely to change until they retire or get fired. I accept it for what it is and try my best not to have an aneurysm about it (which isn't that difficult).
Fan Shout
dfosterf (56m) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
dfosterf (58m) : Zero- Did you see what I posted about Voice of Reason and his wife? She posted over at fleaflicker that they are both "In"
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Well, not crazy, it makes sense. Crazy I didn't notice/find it earlier
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : it's crazy how one stored procedure to get data bogged everything down for speed here
dfosterf (7-Aug) : to herd cats or goldfish without a bowl. They reminded me of the annual assembly of our fantasy league
dfosterf (7-Aug) : out on a field trip, outfitting them with little yellow smocks. Most of the little folk were well behaved, but several were like trying
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Yesterday my wife and I spent the afternoon on the waterfront here in Alexandria, Va. A daycare company took about 15 three/four year olds
wpr (7-Aug) : seems faster. yay
dfosterf (7-Aug) : Wife of reason posted on the in/out thread on fleaflicker that both she and vor are in
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : This page was generated in 0.135 seconds.
Mucky Tundra (7-Aug) : Tbh, I can never tell the difference in speed unless it's completely shitting the bed
Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Sure does feel like site is more snappy
Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : I thought that was the Lions OL
Mucky Tundra (6-Aug) : Travis Glover placed on IR; seasons over for him
Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : found bad sql in database, maybe site faster now?
dfosterf (5-Aug) : I'm going to call that a good move.
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Packers sign CB Corey Ballentine
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : I'm not sure how to kill the draft order just yet so it's not so confusing.
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : *to be able
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : and because it's not a dynasty league (which makes a lot more sense to be ability to trade picks)
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Oh I know; I was just exploring and it blew my mind that you could trade picks because of the whole reordering thing
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Zero, I think I preferred my offer: your 1st for my 15th rounder
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Keep in mind, we do a draft reorder once all members locked in
Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : You can have my 12th Rd for your 2nd round
Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Hey i didn't know we could trade picks in fantasy
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Update: Rock has tried a cheese curd, promises it's not his last
Zero2Cool (3-Aug) : watch it!! lol
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : you're right, we never did leave, the site just went down :P
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Rock claims to have never eaten a cheese curd
Zero2Cool (3-Aug) : We did not leave.
Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Family Night! WE ARE SO BACK!
Mucky Tundra (2-Aug) : To this day, I'm still miffed about his 4 TD game against Dallas on Thanksgiving going to waste
Martha Careful (2-Aug) : Congratulations Sterling Sharpe. He was terrific and I loved watching him play.
beast (2-Aug) : I believe it's technically against the CBA rules, but Jerry just calls it a simple unofficial chat... and somehow gets away with it.
beast (2-Aug) : Jerry Jones is infamous for ̶n̶e̶g̶o̶t̶i̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ chatting with players one on one... and going around the agent.
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Oo just saw a blurb saying that Dallas negotiated directly with Parsons and not through his agent
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : I assumed that both guys will get paid, just a matter of when or how we get there
Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : McLaurin nor Micah going anywhere. They will get money
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : the Synder years or do they take care of one of their own?
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Do the Commanders risk losing a top WR with an emerging QB just because he's turning 30 and potentially risk damaging the rebuild from
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Turns 30 this September, plays at a high level and Washington has some cap space I believe
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : More interesting is Washington with Terry McLaurin
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : I would imagine Dallas will resolve this issue with a truckload of money
Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : Micah pulling a Myles with trade request
beast (1-Aug) : Packers should make some cheese forks
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : GRAB THE PITCHFORKS~
Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : CUT HIM
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : Socieltal collapse imminent
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : The West has fallen
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : After starting off camp with 25 straight made field goals, Brandon McManus has missed one
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
15m / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

1h / Fantasy Sports Talk / packerfanoutwest

7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

3-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

2-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

2-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

28-Jul / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.