Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
9 years ago
IMO if you don't think you need to improve much, you won't.

Fortunately for the Packers, as of the end of the 2015 season all of the three stooges (i.e. other NFCN teams) need to improve a lot to offer a serious threat to the Packers. If I were the sort that still bet on sports outcome, I'd put a big chunk of the Packers winning the division yet again this year.

Unfortunately, the Packers should not be measuring themselves against teams who have to improve a lot. They should be measuring themselves against the teams who they might face that *don't* have to improve a lot. Not teams whose best hope for a playoff spot is a wild card, but NFC teams who are serious competition for the NFC championship and AFC teams who are potential Super Bowl opponents.

I think Minnesota and Chicago had better drafts than GB. But in the end, that's not a big deal to me, because I think Minnesota and Chicago are at least 2 years away from serious divisional competition if the Packers play up to their ability.

But has GB improved relative to those other championship contenders?




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
beast
9 years ago


If the Vikings DL can hold together, they're going to be a pain in the butt to play with all good coverage guys... add to the fact it looks like they're going to have a passing game to go with Peterson this year and I think it's fair to say they're going to get a shot at the division this coming year.

I think it'll be the Packers and Vikings battling for the division, though I really dislike that the Bears were able to get Goldman in the 2nd, I think he's going to be very good.
UserPostedImage
DoddPower
9 years ago

IMO if you don't think you need to improve much, you won't.

Fortunately for the Packers, as of the end of the 2015 season all of the three stooges (i.e. other NFCN teams) need to improve a lot to offer a serious threat to the Packers. If I were the sort that still bet on sports outcome, I'd put a big chunk of the Packers winning the division yet again this year.

Unfortunately, the Packers should not be measuring themselves against teams who have to improve a lot. They should be measuring themselves against the teams who they might face that *don't* have to improve a lot. Not teams whose best hope for a playoff spot is a wild card, but NFC teams who are serious competition for the NFC championship and AFC teams who are potential Super Bowl opponents.

I think Minnesota and Chicago had better drafts than GB. But in the end, that's not a big deal to me, because I think Minnesota and Chicago are at least 2 years away from serious divisional competition if the Packers play up to their ability.

But has GB improved relative to those other championship contenders?



Originally Posted by: Wade 



Eh, fans don't have to hold the same standard as the actual organization. I have no doubt the Packers organization knows they need to improve. C'mon. A team can NEVER reach a point where they are good enough. It's an unobtainable goal. No coach or general manager would make it with that attitude. A team might be "good enough" to win a game on a given week, but it's immediately time to turn the attention to the next week, season, player, contract, etc.

I think you really have to come to terms with the draft and develop philosophy (if you already have, it sometimes just doesn't seem like it). This is what it is, and the Packers organization adheres to it tightly. It's very unlikely to change because it's the fundamental philosophy of this administration. They will live and die by that sword, if you will. It will either win them another championship or two, or they will sputter and all retire/get fired and the organization with start over. If that happens, the next administration that is hired will likely have a mandate to take a slightly different path. If one vehemently disagrees with this current philosophy, they should probably hope that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy get fired or retire soon. Because things aren't likely to change otherwise.

It's fine to disagree with the philosophy, but it's also important to accept it for what it is. The Packers are strong in their conviction, be it right or wrong. They are very likely never going to sign a lot of free agents, make many (or any) substantial trades, or become highly aggressive with the draft or future draft picks. They are going to draft young players and rely on those players to improve as they mature in the system. That's the main source of immediate improvement that the Packers rely on. It's just the way it is. I rather like it, but I think a few more signings like Julius Peppers would be useful. Having more guys like him come around every couple of seasons is generally a good thing. But overall, I'm fine with the approach. Much more often than not, it makes a lot of sense. All the Packers need to do is draft better or get lucky and land two-to-three more good-to-very good players and this team has no excuse to not win another championship. I think that's a reasonable goal, but they do need to find those few additional players.

Ultimately, it just comes down to needing to draft a little better. I think Ted Thompson is a good drafter, and he runs a great organization from a business perspective. But if he just drafted a little better, the Packers could be a different team. I don't think it's as much an issue with the philosophy. It's always a matter of execution.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
9 years ago
Sigh....I *do* believe in the draft-and-develop idea.

I just don't like:
1. Putting as many eggs in that basket as Ted Thompson does; and
2. The failure (more on my fellow fans part than on TT's) to recognize that the amount of weight put on draft-and-develop can change how important a particular draft can sometimes be to short run improvement.

As, IMO, it does this year.

I don't give a damn right now whether this year's drafts turn out to be all pro in 2016 or 2017 or 2099. I care about whether this *TEAM* this *YEAR* improves enough over last year. For example, I want a team that scares Seattle or at least gives them a lot more to worry about; I don't want a team that depends on finessing Seattle to beat them.

Ted has been GM for a decade now. There is no way he should be acting as if last year's roster is going to improve enough to get that improvement. And I'd like to believe that he doesn't. I do, however, think that some of his fans here do, and that they think that is okay.

And that, sir, bugs the crap out of me.

I agree with everyone that Ted knows light years more than I do. And I hope like hell he got this draft right and proved me wrong as he has done multiple times before.

But until I see a Bahktiari give what I think a LT should give to the team, until I see a Barrington or a Bradford or a Hayward or a Hyde or a Quarless or a (Richard) Rodgers give what I think the team ought to be getting at their respective positions, I'm going to bitch when I don't see Ted bringing in more competition for those positions on the current depth chart.

Maybe they have what it takes. Hope so. Maybe some of the draftees /UDFAs will provide real competition. Hope so on that as well.

Because, right now, that's all the team's got to choose from to get that competition. Last years roster, rookies, and UDFAs.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DoddPower
9 years ago

Sigh....I *do* believe in the draft-and-develop idea.

I just don't like:
1. Putting as many eggs in that basket as Ted Thompson does; and
2. The failure (more on my fellow fans part than on TT's) to recognize that the amount of weight put on draft-and-develop can change how important a particular draft can sometimes be to short run improvement.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I really can't comprehend why some people get so annoyed by how other sports fans perceive and enjoy sports. It makes no sense. It's entertainment. Most of us have no real connection to it beyond simply following the sport. Most of us don't have close family members on the team, although some know a few players. Fans aren't going to change how they enjoy the game so I'm not sure why so many talk them out of what they enjoy or substantially change their perspectives. All that matters is that they derive joy from the sport. Nothing else matters, whether you, me, or anyone else agrees with it or not.

I don't give a damn right now whether this year's drafts turn out to be all pro in 2016 or 2017 or 2099. I care about whether this *TEAM* this *YEAR* improves enough over last year. For example, I want a team that scares Seattle or at least gives them a lot more to worry about; I don't want a team that depends on finessing Seattle to beat them.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Last years team was more than capable of beating Seattle. It just didn't work out, but that was an exceptional situation. If all the Packers did was maintain their current talent level, or possibly even got slightly worse, they are STILL more than capable of beating Seattle, and any other team in the league. Aaron Rodgers being healthy it's more than enough improvement.

But that still wasn't the point of my post. Ted's particular philosophy of draft and develop relies improvement from within as the main source of team improvement. As in this "*TEAM* this *YEAR*." It's just the way this organization currently is, for better or for worse. It's fine to hope and wish things were different. But it's also important to realize that it's highly unlikely and Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy will sink or swim with this philosophy of depending on improvement within.

Ted has been GM for a decade now. There is no way he should be acting as if last year's roster is going to improve enough to get that improvement. And I'd like to believe that he doesn't. I do, however, think that some of his fans here do, and that they think that is okay.

And that, sir, bugs the crap out of me.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



See my quote above. I really cannot understand why other fans perspectives bother you so much. I understand we all have quirks that bug us, but this just doesn't seem like anything positive. At all. Obviously all fans view things differently, just as you do. Express your opinions and debate them when it comes up, but don't let it bug crap out of you. What's the point? That seems as futile as trying to substantially change the food someone likes to eat or the music they enjoy. Sure, some new things may be discovered, but in general, people are going to like what they like regardless of others opinions. It's certainly not worth stressing about.

I agree with everyone that Ted knows light years more than I do. And I hope like hell he got this draft right and proved me wrong as he has done multiple times before.

But until I see a Bahktiari give what I think a LT should give to the team, until I see a Barrington or a Bradford or a Hayward or a Hyde or a Quarless or a (Richard) Rodgers give what I think the team ought to be getting at their respective positions, I'm going to bitch when I don't see Ted bringing in more competition for those positions on the current depth chart.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Again, if bitching makes you feel better, go for it. But Ted and company are going to keep doing what they have been doing for years now. It is not likely to change until they retire or get fired. I accept it for what it is and try my best not to have an aneurysm about it (which isn't that difficult).
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Zero2Cool (7h) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (21h) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
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