nerdmann
10 years ago
To me, it sounds like these guys may have not liked what was going on (or what wasn't going on) on the defensive side of the ball.

Our defensive staff is a bunch of aging veteran coaches. There really aren't any young fresh "up and coming" innovators over there. Greene had that potential, but he's gone. It seems to me that Greene and Hilgenberg might have walked away due to frustration with the way things were being run. After all, Mike is obviously frustrated enough with how things were being run on defense, that he's "getting involved" on that side of the ball.

Then again it could be nothing.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
play2win
10 years ago

Something I remember being talked about during the draft was how the Steelers tended to draft guys to "redshirt" them on the defense for a year or two then have them step in. I wonder, since Capers comes from the LeBeau school of defense if it's the nature of the zone blitz scheme to take a year or two to acclimate to it before being ready to contribute.

With the Packers method of drafting talent this would seem to be the way to build it, but like with the age and infirmity hitting the Steelers now, it can be a problem if you need to replace someone right away. For them, look at the issues with no Casey Hampton and an injured Polamalu.

I am not sure simplifying things will necessarily be enough but I DO like the build up of talent over the last few ywars. While it isn't a top 5 defense I just don't see any more glaring needs on that side of the ball.

Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 



This is the most reasonable take that I've seen regarding Dom Capers with the Packers, and how this all turned out to be so bad on D.

We set records for futility in 2011. Abysmal. Yet, we led the league in INTs and takeaways.

2011 we ranked 32nd. (14th rush / 32nd pass)

2012 we ranked 11th. (17th rush / 11th pass)

2013 we ranked 25th. (25th rush / 24th pass)

Since Capers took over as Green Bay’s defensive coordinator in ’09, the team ranks No. 3 in the NFL in total takeaways (133), No. 1 in interceptions (103), No. 2 in opponent passer rating (73.8) and No. 4 in points allowed per game (19.3).

Seems we have just really missed on adding personnel at key positions or losing key players to injury.

Ted Thompson added a top defender this year in Peppers via FA for the first time since 2006. 8 years without a top defender added, with many losses. This kind of forced Capers' hand in having to coach up rookie and 2nd and 3rd year talents - many need a couple of years development, physically, mentally and from an experience standpoint.
Dulak
10 years ago

This is the most reasonable take that I've seen regarding Dom Capers with the Packers, and how this all turned out to be so bad on D.

We set records for futility in 2011. Abysmal. Yet, we led the league in INTs and takeaways.

2011 we ranked 32nd. (14th rush / 32nd pass)

2012 we ranked 11th. (17th rush / 11th pass)

2013 we ranked 25th. (25th rush / 24th pass)

Since Capers took over as Green Bay’s defensive coordinator in ’09, the team ranks No. 3 in the NFL in total takeaways (133), No. 1 in interceptions (103), No. 2 in opponent passer rating (73.8) and No. 4 in points allowed per game (19.3).

Seems we have just really missed on adding personnel at key positions or losing key players to injury.

Ted Thompson added a top defender this year in Peppers via FA for the first time since 2006. 8 years without a top defender added, with many losses. This kind of forced Capers' hand in having to coach up rookie and 2nd and 3rd year talents - many need a couple of years development, physically, mentally and from an experience standpoint.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



didnt know the packers still have top numbers overall the past 4 years. wierd - the way we talk sometimes youd think we just were abysmal
play2win
10 years ago

didnt know the packers still have top numbers overall the past 4 years. wierd - the way we talk sometimes youd think we just were abysmal

Originally Posted by: Dulak 



Actually, just near the top in those categories only... but, surprised they have stayed that high. We were like 4th in sacks in 2012, first in INTs in 2011 and tied for first in takeaways I think, despite being the 32nd ranked pass D that year. Our overall rankings really stunk in 2011 and 2013.

What killed us was such piss poor run D last season, and piss poor pass D in 2011. 2012 saw us spike up a bit, I think in large part to Hayward coming on as a rookie and a relatively healthy Matthews for much of the season. What really hurt us was lack of top pass rush opposite Matthews and on our DL, along with subpar play at S, amongst other things, since Collins went down in Sept of 2011.

I think these deficiencies were mostly due to lack of top personnel and lack of availability. Ted sticking so firmly to draft & develop only for personnel acquisition, and a lot of our guys going down. Pretty hard to develop that talent you bring in when they cannot take the field.
nerdmann
10 years ago

Actually, just near the top in those categories only... but, surprised they have stayed that high. We were like 4th in sacks in 2012, first in INTs in 2011 and tied for first in takeaways I think, despite being the 32nd ranked pass D that year. Our overall rankings really stunk in 2011 and 2013.

What killed us was such piss poor run D last season, and piss poor pass D in 2011. 2012 saw us spike up a bit, I think in large part to Hayward coming on as a rookie and a relatively healthy Matthews for much of the season. What really hurt us was lack of top pass rush opposite Matthews and on our DL, along with subpar play at S, amongst other things, since Collins went down in Sept of 2011.

I think these deficiencies were mostly due to lack of top personnel and lack of availability. Ted sticking so firmly to draft & develop only for personnel acquisition, and a lot of our guys going down. Pretty hard to develop that talent you bring in when they cannot take the field.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Yeah, remember we called it a "bend but don't break" D? "Yes, but we're getting turnovers."

We started out stuffing the run last year, but went down hill. This year, they're going "smaller and quicker" on the Dline, which in my opinion will NOT help stop the run. But we shall see.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
hardrocker950
10 years ago

Yeah, remember we called it a "bend but don't break" D? "Yes, but we're getting turnovers."

We started out stuffing the run last year, but went down hill. This year, they're going "smaller and quicker" on the Dline, which in my opinion will NOT help stop the run. But we shall see.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Partially agree. If they simply tackle well - it would be an improvement. The biggest issue aside from tackling is reaction speed - which I think we have lacked the past couple of seasons. Nobody knows if these changes will improve the D's performance, but trying something different is better than continuing to do something that hasn't worked.
play2win
10 years ago

Yeah, remember we called it a "bend but don't break" D? "Yes, but we're getting turnovers."

We started out stuffing the run last year, but went down hill. This year, they're going "smaller and quicker" on the Dline, which in my opinion will NOT help stop the run. But we shall see.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I think we were doing exceptionally well against the run last year until we met up with Philly, then it was all down hill after that. Faced some great RBs from that point on too...

Looking at the players who have returned, I don't think we could call them small. Everybody who needed to add some bulk, did so, on both sides of the ball.

Our DL will be far, far better this season, based on what I saw. Boyd, Datone and Daniels look like they could jump in tomorrow and start the season in good fashion. Peppers is mammoth. This kid they got in UDFA, Mike Pennel, man, I hope he makes the team. Dude is huge, and looks to have a good motor. Then there is Thornton, who is 6-3 304 coming in as a rookie, and Worthy coming back. As Ted would say, there is a lot of "juice" there along with size on our DL.

This is going to look like a very different defense, far better IMO. I just hope they can keep our guys healthy.
StarrMax1
10 years ago

Yeah, remember we called it a "bend but don't break" D? "Yes, but we're getting turnovers."

We started out stuffing the run last year, but went down hill. This year, they're going "smaller and quicker" on the Dline, which in my opinion will NOT help stop the run. But we shall see.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Packers , as of now, lost Wilson (306), Jolly(320) and Pickett(340)

Raji(340) replaces Pickett, Guillon(315) was brought in, Thorton(304) 3rd rnd draft pick.

Those are essentially the changes other than Peppers(287).\ who will be playing all over the line and Lb positions.

If Pennel(332)UDFA would happen to make the team, The Packers may be younger and quicker, but they sure aren't going to be "smaller".

"younger and quicker" will be a good thing if these guys learn their assignments and as said above are sure tacklers.

You did hit on the "turnover" issue, which it has been proven over time, a team that creates more turnovers than they give up will be successful more times than not.
play2win
10 years ago

Packers , as of now, lost Wilson (306), Jolly(320) and Pickett(340)

Raji(340) replaces Pickett, Guillon(315) was brought in, Thorton(304) 3rd rnd draft pick.

Those are essentially the changes other than Peppers(287).\ who will be playing all over the line and Lb positions.

If Pennel(332)UDFA would happen to make the team, The Packers may be younger and quicker, but they sure aren't going to be "smaller".

"younger and quicker" will be a good thing if these guys learn their assignments and as said above are sure tacklers.

You did hit on the "turnover" issue, which it has been proven over time, a team that creates more turnovers than they give up will be successful more times than not.

Originally Posted by: StarrMax1 



What's cool StarrMax, is McCarthy is really emphasizing TOs, creating TOs on D, and preventing TOs on O with added drill work. Thought that was really good to see, and I would imagine the drilling they are doing in this regard is a daily occurrence.

I loved the Jolly story, and what he brought to our D prior to needing rehab. But, the guy did not do too much last season. Had some flashes early, then kind of petered out. CJ Wilson never really did anything here, and that is a big reason why he rode the bench for most of last season, then found himself looking for work. Pickett, holy shit do I love this player. He was one of the most unheralded best interior linemen in the NFL, for years. Just did a veteran, yeoman job, and the end of his career finally caught up with him. I could still see him added later should we suffer great injury to our line, but that seems improbable. He could still bring it if we needed, and I'm sure he would love to have the chance to play with this lineup in GB.

Glad you mentioned Guion, as I almost forgot about him, but he has size as well, and sounds pretty damned stoked to be playing on the same team as Aaron Rodgers. He will have great motivation to make this team, and I could possibly see him bouncing Worthy out if Worthy doesn't show well this TC.

Seems like we have more highly motivated players on this DL, looking for a ring.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
The thing is, the really bad scenario was when Raji played at the same time as Pickett. At least, we won't be seeing that shit this season. I always regarded Pickett as unheralded because be deserved to be unheralded. So little was expected of him that the rare times he made even an average play, he got praised. Raji was about the same, just with higher expectations. Most teams have one fat blob in their D-Line. It just bothered me when the Packers had two.
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