steveishere
11 years ago

The defense clearly wore down against the Niners.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Maybe they shouldn't have spent the entire game (not just late in the game) giving up first downs and letting SF march down the field with little resistance. They weren't tired because of the TOP they were tired because they couldn't get their own asses off the field.
mi_keys
11 years ago

Maybe they shouldn't have spent the entire game (not just late in the game) giving up first downs and letting SF march down the field with little resistance. They weren't tired because of the TOP they were tired because they couldn't get their own asses off the field.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



No, that 8 minute drive in the first quarter is because Rodgers and McCarthy pulled the fire alarm at the hotel at 3:30 in the morning. It's always their fault.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Gaycandybacon
11 years ago
I will say this. The only way you're gonna keep the other offense off the field is having a balanced attack. The problem with this offense in the past has always been pass pass pass. If it works keep doing it. The Packers have been great at actually throwing it a lot and winning games. But it doesn't always work. I know people say "control the clock" but you really have no control over it. Unless you run run run. And that's not gonna work, even if you have Barry Sanders.

I actually believe the Packers are trying to convert to a balanced offense rather than a pass heavy team through the 1st 3 weeks. Which is a good sign moving forward.

The primary thing though is third down conversions. That is key to time of possession. That is the only key imo. And that's the only thing holding this team back, on both sides of the ball. Through 2 of 3 games this year we've had trouble at times with 3rd down conversions. I think we were one of the worst in the league last year. We need to beat a team on sunday who I think is the best against 3rd downs.

Now when I say it's the only key, i'm not kidding.

Say it's 3rd and 5 and you only get 2 or 3 yards. Now you give the other team the ball with time getting taken off the clock. That's when it plays into the other teams favor. Other time that also goes in the other teams favor is when you throw on third down and it's an incomplete pass. (Which more time than not, is what happens to the Packers.) That will cause the opposing offense to wear down the defense by having a little bit more time to make plays and keeps on making them if we can't stop them.

I much would rather have the first situation. For as great of player Rodgers is and McCarthy is coaching. I think they're overally aggressive on third down. I believe if Rodgers checked down a lot more we'd be much better. We have guys that can do that now with Franklin and Lacy. Especially Sneaky Franklin where he can get those extra yards. That would put even more pressure on the defense.

So I mean it doesn't really matter about time of possession unless we convert 3rd downs. That's what really effects games.


The worst down we have trouble converting is 3rd and short surprisingly. I believe if we sure up that situation with Lacy/play calling we'll be golden.

The point is we need to keep drives going. It's not about not trying to keep the clock moving, it's about trying to score touchdowns on every drive. If you can't convert more than 1 or 2 conversions every time you have the ball, you're not gonna win football games.
nerdmann
11 years ago
Pass pass pass is one thing.

Run and shoot passing deep down the field is different from ball control and moving the chains. One is high percentage, the other is not. One runs the clock, the other does not.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
buckeyepackfan
11 years ago

Pass pass pass is one thing.

Run and shoot passing deep down the field is different from ball control and moving the chains. One is high percentage, the other is not. One runs the clock, the other does not.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 




So The Packers are using a run and shoot deep passing strategy to move the ball down the field ?

Do you realize that Aaron Rodgers has thrown for 1057 yds this year, of that 510 are YAC.

That's 48.25% of Aarons yardage is YAC

Again are the receivers suppose to fall down when they catch the ball so the drive may or may not be extended?

Sorry to blow your run and shoot theory out of the water, but you make it to damn easy.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/yards-after-the-catch/2013/ 

BTW Packers were leading in the 4th quarter at San Fran when Eddy Lacy fumbled and gave them good field position, and we've already discussed how The Packers 2 2nd half turnovers cost them the Bengals game.

Packers are -2 in turnover ratio for the year, their record reflects that at 1-2.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
mi_keys
11 years ago

I think we were one of the worst in the league last year. We need to beat a team on sunday who I think is the best against 3rd downs.

Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon 



While I largely agree with your premise; 3rd down conversions are very important, far more so than time of possession. You recall incorrectly on the above. The Packers were 9th in 3rd down conversion last year.

Unless of course you were referring to our defensive rank. We were 20th defensively in third down conversions last year.

In 2011, we were 3rd offensively and 27th defensively. In 2010, we were 8th offensively and 9th defensively.

At the end of the day, our defense needs to do better getting off the field on third down; and, in fairness, they have done a better job since the 49ers game.

The other key, as buckeye points out, is turnovers. Our offense (and special teams) needs to cut out the historically uncharacteristic turnovers.

If we do those two things, we can lose time of possession all day and destroy teams anyway.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/3rd-down-efficiency/2012/ 

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-third-down-conversion-pct?date=2012-02-05 
Born and bred a cheesehead
nerdmann
11 years ago

So The Packers are using a run and shoot deep passing strategy to move the ball down the field ?

Do you realize that Aaron Rodgers has thrown for 1057 yds this year, of that 510 are YAC.

That's 48.25% of Aarons yardage is YAC

Again are the receivers suppose to fall down when they catch the ball so the drive may or may not be extended?

Sorry to blow your run and shoot theory out of the water, but you make it to damn easy.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/yards-after-the-catch/2013/ 

BTW Packers were leading in the 4th quarter at San Fran when Eddy Lacy fumbled and gave them good field position, and we've already discussed how The Packers 2 2nd half turnovers cost them the Bengals game.

Packers are -2 in turnover ratio for the year, their record reflects that at 1-2.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



No one's saying turnovers don't hurt.

What I'm saying is, clock should have run out by the time those other teams got them.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
steveishere
11 years ago
Yeah the clock should have run out vs the 49ers before the Packers would have had a chance to take the lead in the 4th. That would have helped.
DoddPower
11 years ago

The defense clearly wore down against the Niners.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 




Then what was the problem at the beginning of the game when they weren't stopping them either?

I don't think it had nearly as much to do with being "wore down" as it was being outplayed. Regardless of how tired they were, it's still the defenses job to get off the field. The offense shouldn't have to compensate for the defense. If the Packers defense was actually good or better, they could compensate more often for the offense. Far too often in the past few years, it's been the offense picking up the defenses slack.

NFL players should be in good enough shape to play well for a football game. As long as the offense is scoring ~30 points most games, the Packers should win a lot of games. I would take an offense that puts up a lot of points quickly over one that has some longer drives, but only scores a few field goals. Besides, it's not like the Packers only throw deep, anyway. If a receiver turns a short pass into a long touch down, that's a good thing. As others have said, should Cobb et al. fall down just to extend the drive? Of course not. Yet another silly argument.

Score touchdowns whenever possible, however possible. The rest is up to the defense. Of course they (the defense) could score some points too, if, they'd like to get off the field to rest.
nerdmann
11 years ago

Then what was the problem at the beginning of the game when they weren't stopping them either?

I don't think it had nearly as much to do with being "wore down" as it was being outplayed. Regardless of how tired they were, it's still the defenses job to get off the field. The offense shouldn't have to compensate for the defense. If the Packers defense was actually good or better, they could compensate more often for the offense. Far too often in the past few years, it's been the offense picking up the defenses slack.

NFL players should be in good enough shape to play well for a football game. As long as the offense is scoring ~30 points most games, the Packers should win a lot of games. I would take an offense that puts up a lot of points quickly over one that has some longer drives, but only scores a few field goals. Besides, it's not like the Packers only throw deep, anyway. If a receiver turns a short pass into a long touch down, that's a good thing. As others have said, should Cobb et al. fall down just to extend the drive? Of course not. Yet another silly argument.

Score touchdowns whenever possible, however possible. The rest is up to the defense. Of course they (the defense) could score some points too, if, they'd like to get off the field to rest.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



The defense was without Burnett and Hayward. Was Tramon playing? I forget. But we had guys out in the secondary.

Meanwhile the front 7 were focused on preventing Kaepernick from running, forcing him to throw.

This was a very good plan, imo and is in fact what I wanted them to do. The problem was that their WRs kept getting open. Boldin is a very good player. He's gonna beat backups.

This is why you try to help your defense out in that situation. If it was the offense that was depleted, you might ask your defense to step up and make some plays. But in this situation, the d was reeling from injuries. So give them some help, and maybe we win that game.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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