Zero2Cool
13 years ago
Alright, I've been out of the state for the past week. Michigan sucks and so does working 14 hour shifts of managing a large scale project you know nothing about.

So, I spent a little time trying to catch up on a week or so worth of posts, great fun.

About the Packers and Giants game. I think the first Giants game was the last time I seen the Packers play like they really wanted to win the game, other than the final game of the regular season of course. It seemed like the team was going through the motions, no urgency at all. I had hope, until the end of the half when Ahmad Bradshaw ran anywhere he wanted and then the Hail Mary touchdown. Prior to that drive, I had mouthed off "Packers are going to come out in the 2nd half, take a 17 - 13 lead and never trail again". As I said, the touchdown destroyed that confidence. I can't recall thinking the Packers would come back after that.

The loss stung, but as I had said prior to the closure of the season, the Giants are the team I fear the most for the Packers. I doubt I was alone so the loss wasn't a total shocker. The Packers being 2 - 4 in their own home in the Playoffs the last six tries boggles my mind. I actually attended the game the Packers last won in Lambeau Field in the playoffs. Yes, I am saying you all need to pitch in and buy me ticket(s) for the upcoming games in the playoffs.



2012 Off Season
Packers have to address the defensive line priority one. I'm no longer enamored with a high octane offense, it's just too fragile to rely on. Give me a stout stingy defense over a high octane offense. The offensive line needs some fixing too, but I don't believe it's as dire as some mistakenly cry about. Daryn Colledge's loss was huge, but c'mon people, it's not the end of the world.

I also believe the Packers were trying too hard during the Giants game for several reasons... the loss of Michael Philbin and to prove those wrong who felt the Packers shouldn't have rested players. I think this because when the latter was mentioned, the players responded very quickly and sternly it was not a problem. They came off defensive. And from Aaron Rodgers comments saying he couldn't wait to remind the world who should be talked about as the NFC favorite ... I just believe they went out and were emotionally drained from all things mentioned and lost their focus.


DL, OL and OLB I think are the biggest three areas of need in that order.

Speaking of the DL...

You look at it now, even though they’re saying that stuff, before the season and throughout the whole offseason, everybody had that attitude that they could just replace me, that I was just another player. ‘We can just let him walk,’ Certain players spoke out publicly about guys they hoped they’d bring back, but back then you didn’t hear anybody say too much about me. So I don’t pay it too much attention.

Cullen Jenkins wrote:



It's obvious to anyone who watched the Packers secondary that the lack of communication was huge and the loss of Nick Collins was the biggest loss to the defense this season. Even with that said, a complimentary rush opposite of Clay Matthews III was debilitating. Cullen Jenkins had a good first quarter of the season and tailed off to zero sacks in the last three (approx) quarters of the season, but hell I'd rather him be cut and then signed by the Packers.


Drops
It seemed to me as the season grew on, the Packers dropped more and more catchable passes, culminating with the Divisonal game. I think Jermichael Finley's drops were coming from trying too hard in his contract year and nothing to do with talent.


15 - 1
The Packers are the first team to lose by a margin of as many as 17 points in the divisional round and I believe the third team to fail to reach the Super Bowl after going 15 - 1.


Tackling
As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't see tackling improving until a new defensive coordinator is in Green Bay. I say this because Mike McCarthy admitted it was a problem all year and yet was not fixed. I see no reason why it'll be fixed by the same coordinator in the upcoming off season.


Players
Charles Woodson has stated clearly he's not ready to move to Safety because he still feels he's playing at a top CB level. I don't see this happening at all unless Nick Collins does not come back.

I remember games where Charles Woodson played Safety and he sucked big time. Plus, his tackling has gone to shit lately. He's always going for the strip instead of the damn tackle! It's common sense that if you are the first person to the ball carrier you WRAP UP and the second person goes for the ball while attempting to bring the ball carrier down!

Woodson is still my favorite defender and one of my all time favorites, but he needs to stick to Cornerback and his blitzes.



Matt Flynn - he's gone and Packers won't get anything extra, get over it.

Pat Lee - gone.

Donald Driver - I think it's 70/30 he's gone. Recently has said he understands that it might be difficult to play til 40 and is accepting that.

Chad Clifton - 2 first rounders on Tackles plus Marshall Newhouse played well. Gotta see what the kids can do and bid adieu to Mr. Clifton and the money saved would be a plus.

Scott Wells - must be resigned.

Ryan Grant - I think he'll be back at a bargain.

Jarett Bush - has no business playing in the secondary. Proof? Watch the Hail Mary play against the Giants.

Jermichael Finley - he'll be resigned and he should be. He's a helluva talent and his drops were downright bullshit. When he gets his contract, he'll be more natural an not trying so hard and will dominate in 2012.

Howard Green - has a good role with the Packers and should be resigned.

Tramon Williams - will be better after he heals up fully. Shoulder injuries for a CB are like kryponite.

Nick Collins - gosh I hate doing this, but I read something encouraging about Nick Collins returning...something about that his neck will be back to how it was (strength wise) pre-injury. I don't know how much faith to put into it, especially since I can't even find it again, but who knows. I guess we'll know for sure sometime in March.


I think Scott Wells is the top free agent priority signing for the Packers.
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Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago

I'm no longer enamored with a high octane offense, it's just too fragile to rely on. Give me a stout stingy defense over a high octane offense.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


I couldn't have said it any better myself. I think it was fragile not only physically -- as in, able to be pushed around by a determined defense -- but also psychologically. This offense is excellent at getting out in front quickly, and that is fun to watch, but it almost always seems to wither and become completely ineffective when it's down by more than a single point.

Excellent post overall.
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Laser Gunns
13 years ago
Fantastic post "0"

About Collins, he really was the worst player we could lose in the backfield. He does a lot more from his position than people realize. in terms of identifying routes and positioning the corners pre-play, his experience was not replaceable by Burnett or Peprah.

Not to mention, Collins is probably the most athletic player we have, he has great range and anticipation, and is built big enough to take on RBs and bigger WRs.

Adding to the struggles in the secondary, our DL was very poor at rushing the passer (I know they are "cloggers" ) but when they are single-blocked they were consistently losing. When Pickett was healthy the run D seems a lot tougher up front, but Pickett has and never will be a good pass rusher. We need a big guy (like Jenkins) who has those rush skills that we can put inside with Raji in the nickle.

Also Walden should have been benched a long time ago

MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
TengoJuego
13 years ago
I think Driver will play out that extension he got. I think it was a 2 year thing? 2012 being the second and final year, right? I'd be surprised if he retired.

Matt Flynn is going to go to a team in need of a QB, and will probably start straight away. He'll probably be overpaid, but whatever, that's the nature of the league right now. Good for him. Graham Harrell will probably be our #2.

The tackling bit had me confused. Is it just not enough of a focus in the Dom Capers scheme of things? And can't be? Cause I don't know if I like the idea of a new D-Coordinator. Not that you're saying so, but who knows. Maybe Dom gets a HC offer and takes it.
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

The tackling bit had me confused. Is it just not enough of a focus in the Dom Capers scheme of things? And can't be? Cause I don't know if I like the idea of a new D-Coordinator. Not that you're saying so, but who knows. Maybe Dom gets a HC offer and takes it.

Originally Posted by: TengoJuego 



I'm not expecting or wanting a new defensive coordinator per se. I just don't recall seeing a good tackling defense since Jim Bates was here and well if the Packers knew of the tackling woes and still couldn't fix them during the season, why should one entrust they can fix them over the off season? Know what I mean?

In a perfect world, Packers continue creating ~2 turn overs a game and AND... AND become fundamentally sound tacklers. Remember the Chiefs game? I bet if the Packers defense could have made more tackles that final drive of the Chiefs, the Packers could win that game. Towards the end, the Packers offense showed some urgency... kind of like against the Giants in the regular season.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago
Maybe Oakland and other teams will hire a bunch of our defensive coaches.

Then we can turn around and hire San Francisco's.

[grin1]


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Packers_Finland
13 years ago
Marshall Newhouse did NOT play well. That's an illusion that needs to be made clear to anyone. He was the worst starting tackle in the league last year according to PFF grades. I mean, whenever you complain about too much pressure getting to Rodgers, how do you think the pressure gets there? Newhouse was an absolute revolving door at left tackle. He's not an option, even at backup. I hope the Packers' decision makers noticed the same thing.

But I agree with Clifton being gone. Sherrod and Bulaga should be able to take it from here.
This is a placeholder
nerdmann
13 years ago
Newhouse is a good backup. He's not a pro bowler, but he can play.

Driver is probably gone. They've got Gurley on the PS, and he deserves a shot. They'll probably also draft a guy at the position. Remember that Borel dude is also on the PS. But Gurley is the one with Plaxico-esque size and who routinely blocked punts in practice. Driver ends up in Chicago.

Scott Wells is probably back, but he's 30, so they're going to be replacing him soon. Ted Thompson drafts a C this year in rounds 2-4.
Ted Thompson also drafts a developmental QB in the late rounds.

Agreed: DL AND OLB are are positions of biggest "need." I'd also like to see them nab another CB. Then again, maybe a light goes on with Davon House in the offseason. Defense gets priority in this draft.

Cliffy's gone, Finley stays. Collins returns, if he's willing to sign a waiver.

Grant ends up in Detroit for a year or two.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
I don't recall complaining about pressure on Aaron Rodgers. Every offensive snap I count, 1 ... 2 ... 3 and if the ball is not out, I put it on Rodgers if he's sacked or pressured. Stating the obvious here, it's not that clear cut EVERY time, but that's the rule for me. A lot of the pressures I seen came from him holding the ball for more than 3 seconds. I even mentioned that I don't think the pass protection portion of the offensive line is as bad as some whine about.
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rabidgopher04
13 years ago
It's nice to identify the areas where the Packers need to improve, but Ted Thompson always drafts best player available, not by need. I say this so that none of you will be surprised when Ted Thompson drafts a WR, 2 QBs, a TE, a Punter, a RB, and a Guard.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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