Greg C.
14 years ago

Not really sure this is a league wide trend. Is this just personal observation/opinion or hard facts? Last week, the worst rushing team in the league (Arizona) in a game they were getting blown out in still ran around the end 5 times for 30 yards. Go ahead pick any game this season and count the runs around the end, you'll see more than just a few.

"azrunning" wrote:



You could be right. I don't have any proof about that being a trend and wouldn't even know where to find it. I still don't think the Packers' offense is very well built for a lot of end runs, though. One criticism I agree with is that they seem to run behind Clifton and Colledge way too often, although they are our worst run blockers.
blank
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Of course if it is the trend in the league to not run wide, maybe that means it is an especially good time to bring it back. After all, if I recall correctly, wasn't that what Lombardi did originally, make the sweep a key component when no one else was doing it?

Of course, it requires good offensive linemen of a particular sort to pull it off. But then again, it isn't as if we don't need OL anyway.

Was the Packer sweep successful in the 60s just because DL were slower? I'm not sure it's that simple.

Partly because I don't think we know how fast/slow LBs/DLs were "back in the old days." (When did people start being obsessive about 40 times?)

Partly because to the extent that speed does matter, what matters is the *difference* between speed on offensive and defensive sides of the ball. How much has the speed difference between a LB and an OL changed, for example? If the difference was half a second in 1960 and .48 of a second in 2010, would that matter?

And partly because they didn't have a lot of speedy backs back in the day either. Neither Taylor nor Hornung nor Anderson nor the others had the speed of today's backs. Travis Williams did, but he wasn't a great running back. Can you imagine what a Barry Sanders would have done behind Kramer and Thurston? That NFL rushing record would be out there so far no one would ever approach it.

And partly because the success of the sweep was made by a lot of things, not just by the ability to get from point A (initial stance) to point B (somewhere else) in a given amount of time.

One of the things that blew me away in the HBO special on Lombardi was the comment by another coach, I forget who, who was talking about being a young up-and-coming coach and "knowing it all" and then going to a workshop and being blown away by Lombardi talking for EIGHT HOURS on execution of the Packer sweep.

It seems to me that if a Hall of Fame coach can offer eight hours of "blow me away" instruction to another NFL head coach on one play without being repetitive or otherwise boring, there's a heck of a lot more determining that play's success/lack of success than mere speed of DL/LB.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
zombieslayer
14 years ago
Wade - interesting point you made about not the speed but the difference in the speed between O and D. Let me just throw this back at you though. Imagine you're a D player. You take one wrong step in the wrong direction. You got top of the line speed. You can correct your mistake whereas someone with average speed cannot.

That's one of the reasons why Deion Sanders was so good. He'd sometimes even intentionally make a mistake because he was saying he was sometimes getting bored in coverage as nobody threw in his direction. This is an extreme case, but I wanted to use it to illustrate a point.

The sweep works when it's blocked properly, not just the RBs themselves. Neither Taylor nor Horning were speedsters. I think in their cases (this is all hearsay as I never got to see them play), the blocking was so good that Taylor had the opportunity to run over someone in his way whereas Horning was more shifty and elusive.

So this may contradict what I said earlier. It may not be due to our RBs, but more due to our OL not having the ability to make the key blocks to make the sweep work. Let's not forget that one missed block with a Packers sweep and you got a 4 or 5 yard loss and 2nd and 14 or 2nd and 15. You either have to be able to make it work or don't do it.

I'm not saying I'm right as this is a guess. Something to consider though.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

There is a huge difference.. the QB has the threat of the throw to keep the defense from crashing in.. the back doesn't have that advantage.. the defense is going to crash every time.

"Pack93z" wrote:



That makes sense, but do we really think that the back wouldn't have at least as much chance (not) to get that one yard running to the edge as they do running up the middle into the teeth of the defense? Wouldn't it at least have the effect of keeping defenses on their toes looking for possibilities besides the up-the-gut run?

And Wade raised a point I was going to mention: If it's really true that no one else is doing it (an assertion I find questionable in and of itself), wouldn't that be the perfect time to be doing it?
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (11m) : Fake news. Cowboys say no
Zero2Cool (1h) : Mystery candidate in the Cowboys head coaching search believed to be Packers ST Coordinator Rich Bisaccia.
beast (15h) : Also why do both NYC teams have absolutely horrible OL for over a decade?
beast (15h) : I wonder why the Jets always hire defensive coaches to be head coach
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Still HC positions available out there. I wonder if Hafley pops up for one
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Trent Baalke is out as the Jaguars GM.
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Jeff Hafley would have been a better choice, fortunately they don't know that. Someone will figure that out next off season
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Aaron Glenn Planning To Take Jets HC Job
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Martha- C'est mon boulot! 😁
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you
wpr (22-Jan) : Z, glad you are feeling better.
wpr (22-Jan) : My son and D-I-L work for UM. It's a way to pick on them.
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Thank you. I rarely get sick, and even more rarely sick to the point I can't work.
wpr (22-Jan) : Beast- back to yesterday, I CAN say OSU your have been Michigan IF the odds of making the playoffs were more urgent.
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better.
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : I've been near death ill last several days, finally feel less dead and site issues.
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : It is a big deal. This host is having issues. It's frustrating.
Martha Careful (22-Jan) : just kidding...it was down
Martha Careful (22-Jan) : you were blocked yesterday, due to a a recalcitrant demeanor yesterday in the penalty box for a recalcitrant demeanor
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Was that site shutdown on your end or mine? No big deal, just curious
beast (21-Jan) : That way teams like Indiana and SMU don't make the conference championships by simply avoiding all the other good teams in their own confere
beast (21-Jan) : Also, with these "Super Conferences" instead of a single conference champion, have 4 teams make a Conference playoffs.
beast (21-Jan) : Also in college football, is a bye week a good or bad thing?
Martha Careful (21-Jan) : The tournament format was fine. Seeding could use some work.
beast (21-Jan) : You can't assume Ohio State would of won the Michigan game...
beast (21-Jan) : Rankings were 1) Oregon 2) Georgia 3) Texas 4) Penn State 5) Notre Dame 6) Ohio State, none of the rest mattered
wpr (21-Jan) : Texas, ND and OSU would have been fighting for the final 2 slots.
wpr (21-Jan) : Oregon and Georgia were locks. Without the luxury of extra playoff berths, Ohios St would have been more focused on Michigan game.
wpr (21-Jan) : Zero, no. If there were only 4 teams Ohio State would have been one of them. Boise St and ASU would not have been selected.
Zero2Cool (21-Jan) : So that was 7 vs 8, that means in BCS they never would made it?
Martha Careful (21-Jan) : A great game. Give ND credit for coming back, although I am please with the outcome.
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : FG to make it academic
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : and there's the dagger
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : ooooo 8 point game with 4 minutes to go!
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : ooooooooohhhhhh he missed!
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Ooooo that completion makes things VERY interesting
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Game not over yet
beast (21-Jan) : Oh yeah, Georgia starting quarterback season ending elbow injury
beast (21-Jan) : Sadly something happened to Georgia... they should be playing in this game against Ohio State
beast (21-Jan) : I thought Ohio State and Texas were both better than Notre Dame & Penn State
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Notre Lame getting rolled
Martha Careful (21-Jan) : Ohio State just got punched in the gut. Lets see how they respond
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Notre Lame vs the Luckeyes, bleh
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Oh snap!!!
Zero2Cool (21-Jan) : Even Stevie Wonder can see that.
Zero2Cool (21-Jan) : Nah, you see Lions OC leaving to be HC of Bears is directly related to Packers.
Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : ohhhhhhh Zero is in TROUBLE
packerfanoutwest (21-Jan) : Zero, per your orders, check Bearshome, not packershome
Zero2Cool (20-Jan) : Then he'll land with another team and flourish.
Zero2Cool (20-Jan) : Ben going to Bears. He'll be out in 3 years.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
22-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

22-Jan / Random Babble / packerfanoutwest

21-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

21-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

19-Jan / Random Babble / Martha Careful

18-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

17-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

17-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

17-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

16-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

16-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.