istanbulpacker
14 years ago



Our whole defense pretty much stands and falls with Clay being healthy, as we have no pass rushing threats on the team next to him.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Yo. We need to suit up Gilbert Brown to close down the middle! Okay, alternate universe. Sorry. Claymaker will come through though. Just his presence is enough to open up other guys.

If Dom does slacken the blitz at all in the middle quarters, I expect he'll bring it again in the 4th to shake things up. Especially if we are up and they are desperate.
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dhpackr
14 years ago
rush the ball 35 times for 200 yards, that will slow favre down
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
all_about_da_packers
14 years ago
I'm thinking people are going to be really, really upset with Dom after the game not because the Packers lost, but because they still do not get Dom's philosophy.

Under no circumstances will a Dom Capers defense let you win by running the football on them. Their top priority is to stop the run. Then, theoretically, you become a one-dimensional team. That is when he goes Blitzburgh, and blitzes you like no tomorrow.

Dom, magically, is NOT going to change his philosophy for Brett. Nor should he, because this year Brett has played at a low level. In other words, Adrian Peterson is much more of a threat than Brett right now. Dom is justified in making sure he contains AP first and foremost. He's not going to come out looking to send Favre a message. That is never how Dom's philosophy works.

If we can limit Peterson, then it becomes a simple Favre vs Defense match-up. Last year, Favre won because our defense stunk at zone schemes. Our lack of competence in zone was increased by out inability to have a pass-rush get home.

This year, I'm thinking Dom is hoping to get to the same point as last year: taking AP out of the game and forcing Favre to beat us. I think this team he has some better tools to fight Brett. I think it should be noted that we traded for Anthony Smith right after last week's game. In other words, I do not think that was mere coincidence, but rather an attempt to solidify our zone scheme should a back-up safety have to play (remember, Derrick Martin and Matt Giordano got snaps at safety against the Vikings last year).

There should be no reason for us to expect Capers to come out guns blazing and go after Favre. It does not fit his system's style. If he can get to the same point as he did last year, though, and take AP mostly out of the game, then I fully expect him to go all out.

But then the importance shifts to the players, who actually have to win their one-on-one match-ups. In other words, if the players execute at a high level, Capers will come off looking like gold. If they fail, expect to see much of the same as last year (and, unfortunately, misplaced calls for Capers firing because his defense "sucks").

Frankly, I think this game is going to come down to Special Teams. The Vikings have an excellent ST, but the Packers do not. If the Packers hope to have any shot, then they have to shut out the Vikings STs and give their offense and defense a chance to execute.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I think we will be able to tell in the first quarter if the Packers are going to win this game. If we see our linebackers conceding the short routes, hanging 10 to 15 yards off the line of scrimmage as the tight ends roam free across the middle, while our defensive backs focus their efforts on shutting down Randy Moss, instead of daring Brett Favre to throw it deep and allowing Moss to get his meaningless yardage, then we will see Farve surgically cut up this defense, dinking and dunking his offense down the field while our line looks helpless to stop Adrian Peterson.

Put Brett Favre on the ground. He can't get the ball to his weapons if he's on the ground. Adrian Peterson will get his yards. Fine. Let him. He hasn't proven that he can consistently win games on his own. Brett Favre has.

The Packers largely contained Adrian Peterson last year. They lost. Twice. Screw the scheme. Adapt to your opponent. The point is to win the game, even if the victory looks ugly, not to lose elegantly while sticking to your pet philosophy.
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dhpackr
14 years ago
I'm all for Clay putting a solid hit on favre in the first quarter and sending Brett to the locker room for the rest of the game.
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
yooperfan
14 years ago

I think we will be able to tell in the first quarter if the Packers are going to win this game. If we see our linebackers conceding the short routes, hanging 10 to 15 yards off the line of scrimmage as the tight ends roam free across the middle, while our defensive backs focus their efforts on shutting down Randy Moss, instead of daring Brett Favre to throw it deep and allowing Moss to get his meaningless yardage, then we will see Farve surgically cut up this defense, dinking and dunking his offense down the field while our line looks helpless to stop Adrian Peterson.

Put Brett Favre on the ground. He can't get the ball to his weapons if he's on the ground. Adrian Peterson will get his yards. Fine. Let him. He hasn't proven that he can consistently win games on his own. Brett Favre has.


The Packers largely contained Adrian Peterson last year. They lost. Twice. Screw the scheme. Adapt to your opponent. The point is to win the game, even if the victory looks ugly, not to lose elegantly while sticking to your pet philosophy.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I feel like you have seen a preview of the game.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if your 1st paragraph is spot on.
all_about_da_packers
14 years ago

Put Brett Favre on the ground. He can't get the ball to his weapons if he's on the ground. Adrian Peterson will get his yards. Fine. Let him. He hasn't proven that he can consistently win games on his own. Brett Favre has.

The Packers largely contained Adrian Peterson last year. They lost. Twice. Screw the scheme. Adapt to your opponent. The point is to win the game, even if the victory looks ugly, not to lose elegantly while sticking to your pet philosophy.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Very accurate analysis, but I'm of the thinking we lost not because there was a flaw with Dom's scheme, but that the execution was downright pathetic.

This team, quite simply, cannot play zone coverage. Add to that us losing one-on-one battles all night long (both times) thereby not being able to touch Favre, and basically we were doomed to fail.

I still think Dom's philosophy can lead us to a win. It's just that I think where the biggest problem will arise is that Brett has an exceptionally fast release, so he can get rid of the ball in a hurry. You certainly can counter that by abandoning zone and playing more man-to-man (especially press-man coverage outside) and make some of the windows Brett throws into that much tighter.

The only problem is, playing man-to-man means your defense is vulnerable to the run because most of your 2nd line of defense (ILBs outward) are preoccupied by covering their assignments. However, if you can really impose your will and stop AP and make Childress hesitant to run (which does not require dominating a whole lot, really) then you go after Favre and begin imposing your physical will on him. He will crumble.

But, my above statement is predicated on the idea that we make Favre try to beat us, which is the fundamental difference in our respective approaches. I still think your best shot to win is to get Favre to beat you this year because he is playing at a pretty low level. Yes history shows Favre is much more capable of winning games than Peterson, but I think he is more prone to letdown this year.

Having said that, the Vikings vs Jets game (at the very end) is great counter-evidence that Favre can still rally to beat a team. Perhaps my immersion in Dom's philosophy is making me a homer and not allowing me to see as a viable alternative working to stop Brett first (sort of missing the forest for the trees, if you will), or perhaps trying to look at this game from Dom's perspective leads me to hope a philosophy works when it has shown previously that it cannot work (sort of hammering a square peg into a round hole, hoping [against reason] it goes in). Still, despite a lack of disagreement with your opinions normally, I have to respectfully disagree here.

I'm so excited for this game Sunday night because a 2-4 Vikings team would be heart-warming. However, I dread this game just as much because a 3-3 Vikings team ahead of us in the standings would be a huge blow. I dare to call this a must-win game (because if we lose, the season is still not technically over) but if we ever needed a game to perform up to our potential under McCarthy then this is it.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Greg C.
14 years ago

But, my above statement is predicated on the idea that we make Favre try to beat us, which is the fundamental difference in our respective approaches. I still think your best shot to win is to get Favre to beat you this year because he is playing at a pretty low level. Yes history shows Favre is much more capable of winning games than Peterson, but I think he is more prone to letdown this year.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Favre can still win games. He beat us twice last year. He looked rusty at the beginning of this season, just as he did last year, but he is improving, and now he has another big weapon with Moss.

I've been saying this for a couple of years (along with Nonstop): Let Peterson have his yards. Do everything you can to shut down the passing game. Running teams kick field goals. Passing teams score TDs.
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