I'd like to ask if you were keeping close tabs on Jones when he played. Did you notice they lined up Collins over Jones, as basically a Safety to protect Jones' shortcomings in coverage?

Heck, the Cowboys game.... Roy Williams big reception that Woodson negated by causing a fumble.... Jones blew an assignment and it became Collins' responsibility to chase after Williams.

Again, Kampman led this team in QB hurries and hits. I'm not sure about now, but if he still leads the team then it reveals a heck of a lot about what he meant as a rusher.

Brad Jones exceeded expectations holdingup at the point. To say that he even came close to matching Kampman's consistency in terms of pass rushing is to hugely under-estimate Kampman.

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And that's my biggest problem.

He's consistent, but nothing more than that. He'll get you the pressure if the QB takes too long, but he'll never actually hit home. QB pressures are great if they force the QB to get it out fast, but Kampman is never there to reach the QB in a short time. When the OLB closes in after 6 seconds and the QB has to get rid of it then, it's a pressure, as well. I think he's going on his high motor more than anything else right now.

Much like Cullen Jenkins has been doing from the 3-4 DE position this season, really. He's often been there when Kampman got there.

I think that we should trade Kampman or maybe get one more year out of him while grooming a second day rookie (round 2-3). Wouldn't mind a first rounder, either. We need a real DE/OLB opposite of Matthews. A guy who's a relentless rusher and preferably a little faster and more athletic than Kampman.

What defense do you want to run?

Vanilla or Dynamic?

The defense was far more dynamic without Kampman. That is not a coincidence. Kampman was a liability in coverage and all it takes is 25% of the time dropping back, and teams will exploit that. The Packers were far better off defending the flats without Kampman. Again, not a coincednece. You develop a tendency like the Packers did with Kampman and it's was easier to make a decision at the line of scrimmage. Teams looked for Charles Woodson at the line of scrimmage and then Kampman. If Kampman was dropping in coverage, that's who they went after.

I don't think Kampman was sold on moving to OLB. I don't think he was a problem inside the lockerroom, but he wasn't the same player. He wasn't openly happy about the move. He was careful with his words and I think if you play connect the dots, it's clear that he was frustrated. They didn't move him to DE in the nickel right away. They didn't do that until after their bye week actually.

They don't need him to play DE. They have four guys that are capable of doing that. I'm not sure what bulking up to 290 and playing DE does. Probably, not a lot.

If you can replace him, you do it. He's not irreplaceable in this defense and he was in the 4-3. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he's heavily "handicapped" in this scheme.

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We need D-backs, and to fix the O-line.
Do that, and we should be strong next year.
Damn.....i HATE having to say "next year" already.

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Silver lining: Last we see of Jarret Bush!!!

With a bit of luck, we can now use him like we wanted to all along. As our special teams ace. With him and Martin as full time gunners, we should be able to shut down PRs a little more.

Getting 3 corners on IR is not something you expect. It bumped Bush all the way from our nr. 6 corner to the nr. 3 corner. I think he did a decent job.

I don't know...

Woodson, Harris, Williams, Blackmon, Lee, Underwood... it's gonna be crowded next year.

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you're right, rockmolder, that a team never really relies on (nor should they expect to) on their #7-8 cb on the roster.

On the other hand, even as a STer, you need to be expected to perform when called on in other tasks (e.g. Havner) and Bush/Bell have proven to be a liability this year...which I'm hoping Lee, Blackmon, or any other 3rd-7th rounder we may pick up this year would not be as much of.

You're assuming with Jones in, we went to a more "dynamic" version of Capers 3-4. That is clearly not the case. Yes, against Dallas we probably had our coming out party, but even Capers himself has said that we succeeded so much in that game because the Cowboys became one dimensional - they abandoned the run.

Similarly, in the latter half of the season with our offense getting leads, teams tended to get more one dimensional. Once again, cue the fact that Capers as DC knew odds were that a pass would be called, and hence he could blitz ala Blitzburg style.

To equate Brad Jones with a more dynamic defense being played is to infer causation from correlation; you can't do that. Just look at the psycho package debuted after Kmp's injury, where Jones is not one of the 5 LBs on the field. Just the mere fact that this team displayed a diverse set of plays when Jones was in does not mean the latter caused the former. When our D started to strengthen in run D, our offense started to put points up, it became easier to dictate to the opposing team on D given that the opposing team could only do certain things to score points (namely, drop back and pass).






Did the scenario you outline ever come to fruition? I don't recall a game this year where Kampy had to drop back in 25% of the snaps he took. Usually if Woodson came on a blitz, the nickel LB or S would pick up his player. Yes there were times when Kampman went out into coverage, but it was zone where we had to cover a certain area, not play cover-man.


I won't disagree that Kampman was probably not thrilled about his move, especially in light of this being his contract year. Despite that, there are signs that he was working at the move.

Given that the Packers will almost certainly tag Kampman, and he is coming off an injury that will cause some teams to hesitate paying him top dollar.... I don't think at all Kampman's time is done with this team.

Nor should it be, because I stand by my belief that he brings the pass-rush tenacity you need from the 3-4 OLB position. Yes, he may not be the most athletic player in the world, but he still can drop his shoulders (as he did as a DE, too) to gain leverage and provide a pass rush. Is he as explosive at Clay? No, but I don't think he needs to be, to be adequate at getting pressure.

Kampman as a 3-4 OLB is still playing at the line of scrimmage. He is standing up, instead of putting his hand down. It's not like he is being asked to roam, like a conventional LB. I think he can find success in this scheme. He sure may not be happy about playing as a 3-4 OLB, and may well prefer to be a DE... but given the current circumstances his options are limited.

Add to that, the Packers can apply the Franchise tag on him... well I don't see him going anywhere. If that turns out to be the case, I'm fine with him as a 3-4 OLB.

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I'm not saying Brad Jones is what made the defense more dynamic. I think he needs to be replaced too. He's just "a guy" in my view. I'm saying having Kampman playing out of position and learning a position he was not comfortable playing made things a lot more difficult in how Capers called a game. I don't care what Capers says to the public. Coaches lie. The defense clearly, and the players have said this, was much more aggressive late in the season. That, in part, is attributed to Kampman being out for most of the second half of the season. It's not 100% like that, but it's apart of the equation. Outside of the first half against San Francisco, Kampman missed every snap in the second half of the season.

25% is just to a number as an example. He drops back into coverage in this scheme. I think the numbers is actually around 20%. The point I'm making is that's all it takes. Teams will gameplan for the looks Capers gives them and when they see that look, that's when the QB will read or audible to a play that attacks Kampman. Josh Freeman actually went after Kampman in the flats a couple of times. If Tampa knew it, you bet everyone else did too, including the Packers. That's why the Pack disguised things the best they could. They didn't pressure as much because they had to try and put Kampman in the best possible position to succeed. Without him, the Packers had a lot more flexibility.

Kampman is a great player and he will thrive if he goes to a team that plays a 4-3, but in this system, his skill set makes him a much more limited player. It's just not a great fit. What they do with him I think is up in the air. I could see a franchise and trade in April or I could see him being a free agent until June. It depends on his health. IF Green Bay can't get a deal done with Ryan Pickett, I think they'll use the franchise tag on him before Kampman. This time last year, that never would've happen. I think that is a nice example of how to illustrate Kampman's value to this team. It's just not what it once was. That's not on Kampman, that's on the system. That's just the way things fell.

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