So if Sexy Rexy had beaten Peyton Manning, would he now be enshrined in the list of quarterback greats, despite the fact that the Bears actually had a better record under Kyle Orton?

That argument makes absolutely no sense.

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His rookie year, Roethlisberger threw for 2621 yards and 17 touchdowns against 11 interceptions, and rushed for 1 more touchdown (numbers eerily similar to what Matt Ryan put up last year, by the way). The fact that the Steelers went 15-1 with such a low quarterback output is astounding in my eyes. I'd say that's winning in spite of your quarterback. By contrast, his first year as a starter, Rodgers threw for 4038 yards and 28 touchdowns against 13 interceptions, and he ran for 4 additional touchdowns. The numbers are hardly in the same galaxy as each other. Had Rodgers put up those kinds of numbers for the Steelers' offense in 2004, they steamroll through the playoffs and win the Super Bowl walking away.

But wait, the Steelers won that year because Roethlisberger is . . . um . . . a warrior. Whatever. 😛

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Why do you keep ignoring everything I say? And aren't you the one that said tying a QB to his team's record doesn't make sense? Why do you bring up Orton's record then? Face it, Orton is a good QB even though he doesn't put up Rodgers numbers. When he's in there his team wins. Same thing with Roethlisberger, he can manage a game and keep his team ahead or carry them win they need a big drive. Rodgers just hasn't proven he can do that consistently yet. He's got a bright future but he's just not as far in his career as Ben or Orton (no I'm not saying Orton is better than Rodgers).

The Super Bowl wins are not my entire argument, they're only the icing on the cake. Ben has won clutch games by putting the team on his back a la Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers HAS NOT. It's that simple. I'm sick of this Rodgers worshiping. Don't get me wrong, I love him too but I can't stand how everyone holds him as high as they do. Yes he is a better passer than Roethlisberger. He is arguably more accurate.

Look I hope every understands were comparing a guy in his 6th year as the starter and a guy in 2nd year right? You just can't make the comparison. Roethlisberger has done enough in his short career to warrant a placement above Rodgers. That could all change in the future, even as soon as this season but you can't just enshrine Rodgers like this.

I'm not enshrining Aaron Rodgers. I'm pointing out that his output is measurably greater than Ben Roethlisberger's, who has thrown an average of 18 TDs per year during his career. Roethlisberger has won two Super Bowls despite putting out a horrendous performance in the first and a slightly better than mediocre performance in the second. I refuse to be blinded by the jewelry on his hands. He's lucked out. Put him on almost any other team in the league and he would have been as ridiculed as JaMarcus Russell or Eli Manning.

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Well we obviously have different opinions on what makes a QB great. What would you rather have; a QB who throws for 4 TD's and 400 yards but loses or a QB who throws 2 INT's at the start of the game but gets himself together enough to lead his team down the field for a game winning drive?

I've been saying the whole time that if the QB position was judged on being a good passer and statistics Rodgers is hands down the winner. But I don't believe that's the entire criteria for what makes a QB great.

Plus your argument about what team got the QB is good but irrelevant. That's arguing based on "what if's" and not facts. Who knows what would have happened so why beg the question?

Sorry for derailing this thread. I doubt we'll ever come to a conclusion on this debate. Super Bowl wins do matter. Talk to any player, that's all they care about. That's all anyone in the NFL cares about. I don't understand how you can take that away from a player and say he's bad. He obviously had a part in his team being there or else they wouldn't be there. And the QB is the most important part of the team. All right now I'm going in circles lol.

Rodgers is a great QB.
Roethlisberger is a great QB.
Unless they play head-to-head in the Super Bowl we will never know the answer to who is better.

As I said in the other thread, I'm not arguing that Rodgers is or is not an elite quarterback. I'm merely objecting to the metric you have chosen to define greatness.

In other words, we're arguing over definitions. 😉

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Next person to say or imply Barry Sanders was not great, will be banned! 🙂

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Pretty much. And then we could be arguing over the fact that there are thousands of languages in the world and none of them are directly translatable. Which then would lead to the fact that languages and words are just ideas and illustrations that don't actually mean anything but merely create labels for humans to communicate and understand each other with. Which would then dissolve into a highly speculative philosophical debate about the nature of the universe.

But I still love Aaron Rodgers 😉

Hey, I'm in the chat room at the moment. I would be up for such a speculative philosophical debate. ;)

By the way, if I get banned, does that mean I'm barred from the chat room?

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