Staring us in the face· Page 4

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

15 years ago

#31

Tauscher is still a couple weeks of being a solid upgrade, especially after his latest setback.

"VinceLambeauStarr" wrote:

Actually Tauscher was a full participant in practice today.

"IronMan" wrote:

What I mean is, he got re-injured during his first game back - he is practising but short of game practice :icon_smile:

"VinceLambeauStarr" wrote:

Let's not imply that having a man over 250 pounds landing on your calf-back of knee is any easy feat to bounce back up from ten seconds later. I do believe a similar act broke a Cowboys OL last week.

bozz_2006
Registered

15 years ago

#32

I agree with Z, I don't think you can blame the injury he sustained two weeks ago to a not-yet-ready-for-primetime reconstructed knee. Having the back of your leg rolled upon will injure the healthiest and strongest of knees. That would've injured Tausch whether or not he was healing up from a knee surgery.

porky88
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#33

I watched Baltimore on Monday night and we all know Cleveland's offense is not the Packers offense but the Ravens will line up against us just like they did there.

As I have state the problem for us is defenses are going to set up to take the short stuff away because they feel Rodgers won't have the time needed to hurt them down field.

So if we go short it will be playing right into what they expect us to do. If thats the case it's not about our receivers not running good enough routes or needing to be better in one on one matchups. The defense will have the advantage until we start showing the big play capabilities this team has.

What some here are failing to see is that we have always been capable in the short passing game in the past BECAUSE teams had to respect what could happen to them down field. Teams couldn't afford to play us the way they do now because we would just go over the top.

The short game will be hardpressed as long as teams can rush four and create pressure as well. That leaves five defenders pressing short coverage.

The KEY to all of this is our five guys have to block the other teams four and force defenses to back off. There is no mystery to why we scored 17 points sunday. Rodgers YPA was over three yards less than what he has averaged all year.

All I can say is if this is what your asking for you better hope the defense plays lights out from here on in because points will not come easy.

"warhawk" wrote:

The problem is that the Packers' five guys can't block. They can't win the one on one matchups. Sure, Sitton is decent, but everyone else is either overpowered or over-matched. There is no way the down the field passing game will work on a consistent basis. Not with the offensive line. Rodgers will have to be near perfect every single game and he's not Peyton Manning.

Defenses can and will try to take away the short passing game, but no more or less than they have the last 14 years. This is nothing new. GB has been running the slant for years and this is the first season in along time that they've gotten away from it. Defenses in the past adjusted, but GB ran it better and they'll need to get back to doing that.

The offense was bad against Dallas because the matchup is not a good one. The Cowboys held GB in check for a better part of three quarters a year ago as well. Again, nothing new.

Defenses still have to account for Jennings going deep or Finley up the seam now. There are plenty of ways to go deep, but if you expect the Packers to go long and have success with a down the field passing game, you'll be watching an eight win team all year. They can't do it. The offensive line will not help them.

The Packers need to defenses to stay at home and not tee off. They'll need to run the football better so the linebackers stay home a second longer. That setups play action pass and that is how the Packers will go deep.

Start with the short pass out of the gate and then setup a double move later on. That is another way.

Deep posts and deep ins will not work unless Rodgers has time. That doesn't mean you don't' run them, as you do because you run everything, but it cannot be the stable part of the offense.

The offense needs to be balanced in order to hide the protection problems. Blend everything in and run a little bit of everything. The short passing game needs to be a stable part of the offense. Rodgers needs to have a quick release and everything else including the deep ball will fall into place.

http://www.row12.com/

macbob
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#34

The problem is that the Packers' five guys can't block. They can't win the one on one matchups. Sure, Sitton is decent, but everyone else is either overpowered or over-matched. There is no way the down the field passing game will work on a consistent basis. Not with the offensive line. Rodgers will have to be near perfect every single game and he's not Peyton Manning.

Defenses can and will try to take away the short passing game, but no more or less than they have the last 14 years. This is nothing new. GB has been running the slant for years and this is the first season in along time that they've gotten away from it. Defenses in the past adjusted, but GB ran it better and they'll need to get back to doing that.

The offense was bad against Dallas because the matchup is not a good one. The Cowboys held GB in check for a better part of three quarters a year ago as well. Again, nothing new.

Defenses still have to account for Jennings going deep or Finley up the seam now. There are plenty of ways to go deep, but if you expect the Packers to go long and have success with a down the field passing game, you'll be watching an eight win team all year. They can't do it. The offensive line will not help them.

The Packers need to defenses to stay at home and not tee off. They'll need to run the football better so the linebackers stay home a second longer. That setups play action pass and that is how the Packers will go deep.

Start with the short pass out of the gate and then setup a double move later on. That is another way.

Deep posts and deep ins will not work unless Rodgers has time. That doesn't mean you don't' run them, as you do because you run everything, but it cannot be the stable part of the offense.

The offense needs to be balanced in order to hide the protection problems. Blend everything in and run a little bit of everything. The short passing game needs to be a stable part of the offense. Rodgers needs to have a quick release and everything else including the deep ball will fall into place.

"porky88" wrote:

+1. To paraphrase Don Rumsfeld, we play with the offense that we have, not the offense that we'd like to have. We HAVE to adjust our approach based on the capabilities of the offensive line, receivers, etc that we have, not the offensive line that we'd like to have.

nerdmann
Premier Member

15 years ago

#35

I watched Baltimore on Monday night and we all know Cleveland's offense is not the Packers offense but the Ravens will line up against us just like they did there.

As I have state the problem for us is defenses are going to set up to take the short stuff away because they feel Rodgers won't have the time needed to hurt them down field.

So if we go short it will be playing right into what they expect us to do. If thats the case it's not about our receivers not running good enough routes or needing to be better in one on one matchups. The defense will have the advantage until we start showing the big play capabilities this team has.

What some here are failing to see is that we have always been capable in the short passing game in the past BECAUSE teams had to respect what could happen to them down field. Teams couldn't afford to play us the way they do now because we would just go over the top.

The short game will be hardpressed as long as teams can rush four and create pressure as well. That leaves five defenders pressing short coverage.

The KEY to all of this is our five guys have to block the other teams four and force defenses to back off. There is no mystery to why we scored 17 points sunday. Rodgers YPA was over three yards less than what he has averaged all year.

All I can say is if this is what your asking for you better hope the defense plays lights out from here on in because points will not come easy.

"warhawk" wrote:

We're also getting Finley back. Jordi Nelson should be returning punts again this week.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

nerdmann
Premier Member

15 years ago

#36

Agreed. OL has to block.

short routes, long routes, quick release, slow release, etc etc....some of these can shorten the odds, others will lengthen them.

but if the OL can't consistently get it done at least as well as it did in the Dallas game, none of it will matter.

i'm a lot more confident than i was a weak ago. but i'm not on the 'we're over the hump' bandwagon yet.

"Wade" wrote:

Yeah, the Oline looked stabilized against a very good D. The Defense seemed to take a quantum leap with my man Brad Jones in there.
I'd like to see the Packers continue to play at this level.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

nerdmann
Premier Member

15 years ago

#37

I agree for the most part with regards to what philosophy we employ against teams with varying skils/weaknesses however;

I still think that whilst Finley provides a good recieving threat and a
matchup problem, our offensive line is so poor right now that gameplans change to play plans because big assignments are being missed - you is never know when the next d'oh! from our offensive line will creep in.

Tauscher is still a couple weeks of being a solid upgrade, especially after his latest setback.

"VinceLambeauStarr" wrote:

With Clifton down, we were a bad Oline before we resigned Tauscher. Cliffy at LT makes us stable. As does Lang at RT. If Cliffy goes down, move Lang over to the left side. He's shown he can be a stopgap there. Tauscher has shown he can get it done on the right side.
I think our line will be ok for the rest of the year. If Cliffy goes down, we could be in trouble, though.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

nerdmann
Premier Member

15 years ago

#38

I watched Baltimore on Monday night and we all know Cleveland's offense is not the Packers offense but the Ravens will line up against us just like they did there.

As I have state the problem for us is defenses are going to set up to take the short stuff away because they feel Rodgers won't have the time needed to hurt them down field.

So if we go short it will be playing right into what they expect us to do. If thats the case it's not about our receivers not running good enough routes or needing to be better in one on one matchups. The defense will have the advantage until we start showing the big play capabilities this team has.

What some here are failing to see is that we have always been capable in the short passing game in the past BECAUSE teams had to respect what could happen to them down field. Teams couldn't afford to play us the way they do now because we would just go over the top.

The short game will be hardpressed as long as teams can rush four and create pressure as well. That leaves five defenders pressing short coverage.

The KEY to all of this is our five guys have to block the other teams four and force defenses to back off. There is no mystery to why we scored 17 points sunday. Rodgers YPA was over three yards less than what he has averaged all year.

All I can say is if this is what your asking for you better hope the defense plays lights out from here on in because points will not come easy.

"porky88" wrote:

The problem is that the Packers' five guys can't block. They can't win the one on one matchups. Sure, Sitton is decent, but everyone else is either overpowered or over-matched. There is no way the down the field passing game will work on a consistent basis. Not with the offensive line. Rodgers will have to be near perfect every single game and he's not Peyton Manning.

Defenses can and will try to take away the short passing game, but no more or less than they have the last 14 years. This is nothing new. GB has been running the slant for years and this is the first season in along time that they've gotten away from it. Defenses in the past adjusted, but GB ran it better and they'll need to get back to doing that.

The offense was bad against Dallas because the matchup is not a good one. The Cowboys held GB in check for a better part of three quarters a year ago as well. Again, nothing new.

Defenses still have to account for Jennings going deep or Finley up the seam now. There are plenty of ways to go deep, but if you expect the Packers to go long and have success with a down the field passing game, you'll be watching an eight win team all year. They can't do it. The offensive line will not help them.

The Packers need to defenses to stay at home and not tee off. They'll need to run the football better so the linebackers stay home a second longer. That setups play action pass and that is how the Packers will go deep.

Start with the short pass out of the gate and then setup a double move later on. That is another way.

Deep posts and deep ins will not work unless Rodgers has time. That doesn't mean you don't' run them, as you do because you run everything, but it cannot be the stable part of the offense.

The offense needs to be balanced in order to hide the protection problems. Blend everything in and run a little bit of everything. The short passing game needs to be a stable part of the offense. Rodgers needs to have a quick release and everything else including the deep ball will fall into place.

"warhawk" wrote:

1: Penalties killed all those drives.

2: The Oline looks stabilized, for now. They played well against a very good pass rushing team. They even ran the ball effectively.

3: They can also run some screens and traps.

4: Getting Finley back will help Rodgers alot. He's a big target who can go up higher than anyone else and get the ball. Dude can get open and get YAC too.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Wade
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#39

The problem is that the Packers' five guys can't block. They can't win the one on one matchups. Sure, Sitton is decent, but everyone else is either overpowered or over-matched. There is no way the down the field passing game will work on a consistent basis. Not with the offensive line. Rodgers will have to be near perfect every single game and he's not Peyton Manning.

Defenses can and will try to take away the short passing game, but no more or less than they have the last 14 years. This is nothing new. GB has been running the slant for years and this is the first season in along time that they've gotten away from it. Defenses in the past adjusted, but GB ran it better and they'll need to get back to doing that.

The offense was bad against Dallas because the matchup is not a good one. The Cowboys held GB in check for a better part of three quarters a year ago as well. Again, nothing new.

Defenses still have to account for Jennings going deep or Finley up the seam now. There are plenty of ways to go deep, but if you expect the Packers to go long and have success with a down the field passing game, you'll be watching an eight win team all year. They can't do it. The offensive line will not help them.

The Packers need to defenses to stay at home and not tee off. They'll need to run the football better so the linebackers stay home a second longer. That setups play action pass and that is how the Packers will go deep.

Start with the short pass out of the gate and then setup a double move later on. That is another way.

Deep posts and deep ins will not work unless Rodgers has time. That doesn't mean you don't' run them, as you do because you run everything, but it cannot be the stable part of the offense.

The offense needs to be balanced in order to hide the protection problems. Blend everything in and run a little bit of everything. The short passing game needs to be a stable part of the offense. Rodgers needs to have a quick release and everything else including the deep ball will fall into place.

"macbob" wrote:

+1. To paraphrase Don Rumsfeld, we play with the offense that we have, not the offense that we'd like to have. We HAVE to adjust our approach based on the capabilities of the offensive line, receivers, etc that we have, not the offensive line that we'd like to have.

"porky88" wrote:

OMG. I find myself agreeing with Don Rumsfeld. Crap.
(time for a cold shower)

Good point, macbob, even if I wish you had used another authority to make it. 🙂

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

warhawk
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#40

My point is that a short passing game "adjustment" is not an adjustment but a compensation and that compensation takes away a very potent dynamic to the offense.

I believe we have to go with the offense that gives a full array of problems for the defense and hope we get at least adequate blocking to run it. I think pulling away from that will be a BIGGER mistake.

I don't think we can forget that as bad as the line has been we have scored a lot of points. I do feel we need to be smarter by looking at the numbers and doing things to improve in certain situations. Rodgers has an unusually high number of sacks on first down. Maybe bring Green in on first down and shuffle Finley around in the backfield would cause concerns where we could get better results. That's two more targets to contend with or we run the ball.

As I said we play four teams in the top eight against the run and I doubt we will be running the ball down their throats. Now you have the run game, the short pass, the medium pass, and the long pass. I am not sure how anyone can feel we will be successful if the run isn't productive and we basically rely primarily on one means available to move the ball.

I have always felt our short passing game was effective because the offensive fire power was there downfield and the threat of getting past defenders kept them honest. If that component is not there it's a whole different ballgame. They have to offer the 15 to 20 yard pass to get the defenders to back off the tight coverage.

To get where we need to go I think that's the presentation we have to give the defense and the 0line will have to do a good enough job to get it done. More short passes than not? Sure. A trend where that's how we intend to move the ball drive after drive? No.

"The train is leaving the station."

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