doddpower
16 years ago

Nick Barnett has similar size as Steelers LB James Farrior and Farrior has done a great job in the 3-4 scheme. So size should not be the issue.

Barnett: 6-2 236 lb
Farrior: 6-2 243 lb

"Bigbyfan" wrote:




While I agree with you that the size difference isn't the problem, Barnett does have a problem getting off blockers, especially last season. Hawk had as much trouble, if not more. I really have no clue how much of that was the scheme or what, but he definitely needs to improve.

He's one of my favorite players and he is incredibly talented, but if there's a guard or two running right at him, I would be worried. Hopefully Dom is able to adjust to compensate for this. Or even better, if our D-Line engulfs entire offensive lines so that there is no way a guard would be charging at our linebackers! Yeah!! Let's hope for that!
porky88
16 years ago
The defense won't be dominate, but that doesn't mean it can't be better than it was last year. I think a lot of people need to realize that GB was just an average defense away from going 9-7 or 10-6 last year. That will hold true again this year because of the offense.

Nick Collins is having family issues I believe so I will reserve any criticism of him not participating. I don't' know what is going on, but family should come first. Can't knock him for that.

Barnett is still the biggest concern for the Packers. I just can't see him playing there. I think middle is where he belongs because he just can't rush the passer in this defense and that's the key, but I also don't know if he can play the middle. The way he plays the game would suggest he can't. He's to aggressive and can't fend off blockers. He has an up hill battle. He'll be given the first chance to start, but he'll also be on a short leash.

Best case for Barnett is still a poor mans Jerod Mayo and I mean really poor mans because their build and athleticism is similar, but beyond that it's hard to find a true guy to compare Barnett too.

Still would like to see Vonnie Holiday brought in to play DE. I think he'd start and would provide experience and leadership to the defensive line. It also allows for a better rotation at NT. I expect Raji to have a big impact, but not to the extent that a game changer will have. He'll play 20 to 30 snaps a game tops and that's a big get, but I'd like to see it at NT and right now, I don't know if it'll be there because of the problem at DE.
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djcubez
16 years ago

The defense won't be dominate, but that doesn't mean it can't be better than it was last year. I think a lot of people need to realize that GB was just an average defense away from going 9-7 or 10-6 last year. That will hold true again this year because of the offense.

Nick Collins is having family issues I believe so I will reserve any criticism of him not participating. I don't' know what is going on, but family should come first. Can't knock him for that.

Barnett is still the biggest concern for the Packers. I just can't see him playing there. I think middle is where he belongs because he just can't rush the passer in this defense and that's the key, but I also don't know if he can play the middle. The way he plays the game would suggest he can't. He's to aggressive and can't fend off blockers. He has an up hill battle. He'll be given the first chance to start, but he'll also be on a short leash.

Best case for Barnett is still a poor mans Jerod Mayo and I mean really poor mans because their build and athleticism is similar, but beyond that it's hard to find a true guy to compare Barnett too.

Still would like to see Vonnie Holiday brought in to play DE. I think he'd start and would provide experience and leadership to the defensive line. It also allows for a better rotation at NT. I expect Raji to have a big impact, but not to the extent that a game changer will have. He'll play 20 to 30 snaps a game tops and that's a big get, but I'd like to see it at NT and right now, I don't know if it'll be there because of the problem at DE.

"porky88" wrote:


Great insights. I too am concerned about Barnett's health and I just don't see him competing for a starting position in the next few years with all the changes and young talent we have at the linebacker position. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to see a Matthews-Hawk-Bishop-Kampman lineup in the latter half of the year although I'm in no way predicting it either.

I kind of agree with you about Holliday if were expecting to win it all in the next few years but with the way our team works I don't expect Thompson to make a move. We just have to expect our young players to step up. Besides, Ted Thompson really only brings in veterans and draft picks to increase competition in camps and practices. It's a practice that can work and I'm excited about our coaching staff this year; McCarthy has ran a great, despite being conservative, offense the last few years and Capers, Greene and Perry seem like great instructors for our 3-4. I just hope we can stop AP, I know I've said it before but it really does seem like the key winnimg the North this year.
Dulak
16 years ago
All you guys picking on my man barnett - If barnett's knee is ok; I would bet that he would be playing more then hawk.

you guys must have had the tv off the previous years ...



Striving to get in on every single tackle, has started five straight years and has led the team in tackles four of those five

Named a Pro Bowl alternate once again in 2007 and continues to make strides toward earning an NFC spot in Hawaii despite playing in the same conference as Brian Urlacher

Has averaged 10.2 tackles per contest over his first five seasons despite carrying the label "undersized" for his position since coming into the league

Became the first player to lead the Packers in tackles over any three consecutive seasons (dating to 1975), not to mention the first three years of his career

Has posted 796 total tackles (536 solo), with 11 1/2 sacks, nine interceptions, seven fumble recoveries and 35 passes defensed, while being selected a Pro Bowl alternate four times

"packers.com" wrote:



how about those apples
porky88
16 years ago

All you guys picking on my man barnett - If barnett's knee is ok; I would bet that he would be playing more then hawk.

you guys must have had the tv off the previous years ...



Striving to get in on every single tackle, has started five straight years and has led the team in tackles four of those five

Named a Pro Bowl alternate once again in 2007 and continues to make strides toward earning an NFC spot in Hawaii despite playing in the same conference as Brian Urlacher

Has averaged 10.2 tackles per contest over his first five seasons despite carrying the label "undersized" for his position since coming into the league

Became the first player to lead the Packers in tackles over any three consecutive seasons (dating to 1975), not to mention the first three years of his career

Has posted 796 total tackles (536 solo), with 11 1/2 sacks, nine interceptions, seven fumble recoveries and 35 passes defensed, while being selected a Pro Bowl alternate four times

"Dulak" wrote:



how about those apples

"packers.com" wrote:



Hawk might be ok because he has size. I certainly have as many doubts about Hawk as I do Barnett at this point. I think Hawk probably has more upside, but that's it.

Barnett is an over aggressive player that tends to act rather than think which isn't bad, but he never plays with control. He also has terrible technique although a lot of the players do which points towards coaching.

He's by no means a poor player, but he's a terrible fit for the 3-4. Unless he learns to take on a guard and get him off of him, he'll have a tough time adjusting to the system. I don't know if he can do that. You get a big man on Barnett and he's about done. He's a pure 4-3 player in my opinion.

I have hopes he does compare to a Jerod Mayo, but I think 07 was his career year for the Packers.
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Bigbyfan
16 years ago
You can point to almost any LB and they will struggle if guards are able to get to them. Urlacher has struggled when his d-line has struggled. Even Ray Lewis had his struggles after Siragusa and Adams left the Ravens until they got Ngata...

I like Barnett's aggressiveness. That is something that is hard to teach a player. I would have an aggressive Barnett than a timid 'perfect sized" player. Also I have no problem with Barnett's size as I pointed out earlier.
blank
Zero2Cool
16 years ago
I like Nick Barnett because he goes to Buffalo Wild Wings at the same time I do. 🙂
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porky88
16 years ago

You can point to almost any LB and they will struggle if guards are able to get to them. Urlacher has struggled when his d-line has struggled. Even Ray Lewis had his struggles after Siragusa and Adams left the Ravens until they got Ngata...

I like Barnett's aggressiveness. That is something that is hard to teach a player. I would have an aggressive Barnett than a timid 'perfect sized" player. Also I have no problem with Barnett's size as I pointed out earlier.

"Bigbyfan" wrote:



Urlacher and Lewis didn't struggle with that in their prime. Now they do because they're wearing down. These guys were legit Defensive Player of the Year candidates for awhile. Of course Urlacher dealt with some injuries, but he had about a two to three year gap where he was really a remarkable player for the Bears.

Barnett lacks versatility in this defense. People say put him on the outside, but he's a terrible blitzer and you just don't have 235 pound 3-4 outside linebackers that get after the QB. I'm sure if you dig they're some exceptions, but not many.

That takes Barnett out of the outside in my view.

Inside he's so much smaller and so undisciplined that I think he's going to be engulfed by larger players on a regular basis. Nobody is asking for a timid backer. That would be a mistake, but there is such thing as an overly aggressive player and Barnett is an example of that.

I would be surprised to see Barnett have the impact in the 3-4.

If I were the Packers I would play Barnett on passing downs because he probably is still the best coverage backer on the team. Barnett would play in dime, nickel, and any 4-3 package.

That's his best role, but long-term, Green Bay is probably going to cutdown on the 4-3 looks that they give which means Barnett is expendable. Maybe not this year, but next.
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all_about_da_packers
16 years ago

It is a good article explaining the changes and how there is virtually no bump and run with the corners playing outside the 5 yard bump area.

"CaliforniaCheez" wrote:



Um, I could have sworn that the Ravens play a press-coverage 3-4.

If you look at current 3-4 CBs even on "zone coverage" teams, you'll see outside CBs playing a lot of bump-n-run.

I believe it was current Steelers starting CB Deshea Townsend who said that in the zone-blitzing scheme operated under LeBeau (to which Capers has a lot of ties to) the outside CBs played extensive man coverage, in some cases even in "zone" coverage where the middle of the field would be where zone happens, and the outside is still in man.

Capers is no idiot, he realizes that the two best CBs on this team are proficient in bump-n-run. He'll play to the strengths of his players, so I'm not concerned about Woodson and Harris having to learn how to play zone. They'll play it, but more often than not they'll still be in press.



Collins low Wonderlic score and past performance should leave people concerned.

There will be screw ups and big plays against this defense.

"CaliforniaCheez" wrote:



While I do agree Collins will be important to this D, I think it's unfair to call him out on his Wonderlic and say that is proof of his inability to get football concepts.

For starters, a lot of players don't even take the Wonderlic seriously.

Also, you've got a Safties coach that played the position, and under Capers 3-4 system to boot. He should help Collins with the transition.

While there are definitely causes for concern in the amount of "communication breakdowns" over the past couple of years with Collins at FS, I think there is enough difference in the coaching quality of Kurt Schott. and Darren Perry that some of those breakdown can be stopped before they happen.
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zombieslayer
16 years ago

As versatile and complicated as Capers' scheme will be to opponents, it will be just as hard to digest and comprehend for the Packers.



This is bull. The Packers have the entire training camp and four preseason games to make this work before even game 1, and adjustments will be made all season long. An opposing O has 1 week to study film before playing us.
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