Forgive Student Loan Debt· Page 2

Martha Careful
Member

2 years ago

Random thoughts on this interesting topic:
[list]

The government should not be in the student loan business, and many other businesses it is in. If universities or institutions think their degrees are so worthwhile, they should be the one giving the loans, not the US government.[*]When the government “forgives” loans, what it means is it’s transferring the responsibility for payment to other taxpayers rather than the people who accrued the benefits of the loan. in my estimation, this is blatantly unfair. why should a plumber, carpenter, mailman, or any other non-college degree person pay for someone else’s college? It makes no sense economically socially or in any sense equitable fairness.

[*]When someone takes that a loan, they are responsible to repay it. My husband and I put three kids for school scrimped and saved, didn’t go on vacations, and made sure they did not have student debt when they graduated. Now I’m supposed to pay because some other lazy ass didn’t feel like sacrificing for their degree or their kids? It’s blatantly unfair. loan forgiveness promotes irresponsibility which is never good in society.[*] Finally, this is another example of politicians throwing more debt and more Into the money supply which creates even a greater amount of inflation, some thing the Fed is trying to battle but has its hand tied with us in inept Congress and administration[/list]

Go Packers!!!!

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

#12

Random thoughts on this interesting topic:
[list]

When the government “forgives” loans, what it means is it’s transferring the responsibility for payment to other taxpayers rather than the people who accrued the benefits of the loan. in my estimation, this is blatantly unfair. why should a plumber, carpenter, mailman, or any other non-college degree person pay for someone else’s college? It makes no sense economically socially or in any sense equitable fairness.

When someone takes that a loan, they are responsible to repay it. My husband and I put three kids for school scrimped and saved, didn’t go on vacations, and made sure they did not have student debt when they graduated. Now I’m supposed to pay because some other lazy ass didn’t feel like sacrificing for their degree or their kids? It’s blatantly unfair. loan forgiveness promotes irresponsibility which is never good in society.

Finally, this is another example of politicians throwing more debt and more Into the money supply which creates even a greater amount of inflation, some thing the Fed is trying to battle but has its hand tied with us in inept Congress and administration[/list]

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful

So, basically this debt forgiveness proposition is undermining our intelligence under the guise of "help the kids", in a way?
I agree, it is unfair I've been paying my student loans and some others might not have to and I'll be contributing to it, but what is the greater good? There has to be some tangible reason for this to even be offered, right? Let's say this costs me $2,000 a year in 2023 because we forgive some debt. What are we getting for that $2,000? Are we simply allowing a group of kids to go unaccountable for their financial debt or is there a bigger economical benefit that I'm naïve to?

earthquake
Member

2 years ago

#13

So, basically this debt forgiveness proposition is undermining our intelligence under the guise of "help the kids", in a way?

I agree, it is unfair I've been paying my student loans and some others might not have to and I'll be contributing to it, but what is the greater good? There has to be some tangible reason for this to even be offered, right? Let's say this costs me $2,000 a year in 2023 because we forgive some debt. What are we getting for that $2,000? Are we simply allowing a group of kids to go unaccountable for their financial debt or is there a bigger economical benefit that I'm naïve to?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Generally speaking, yes, there are benefits to the government investing in education. A better-educated workforce means more highly skilled work stays in the country, which means better products are invented and produced, we're more competitive in the global market, wages for the working class go up, GDP increases, and society as a whole is better off. Education spending is one of the most effective and efficient uses of government money over the long term.

Now, whether student loan forgiveness is the most efficient way to go about investing in secondary education is certainly debatable. Personally, I would rather see programs that provide free or low-cost secondary education going forward, whether that be free community college, state college, or significantly expanding programs that provide financial aid to lower-income individuals so they can afford to get an education. The fact of the matter is the costs of secondary education in this country are extremely high compared to most developed nations, many of which offer completely free secondary education to those who want it.

Free or low-cost secondary education tends to give the working class much more social mobility. When you can, at any time in life, go back and get a degree, train at a technical school and learn a new skill, it empowers people to better themselves (which in turns helps the wheels of the economy turn). Someone below the poverty line who is already working two or three jobs doesn't have the luxury of time or the money required to get educated and improve their circumstances, which is a real catch-22 sort of problem that keeps them stuck at the bottom of the ladder.

Another thing to keep in mind is that progress toward universal secondary education or similar programs will always be "unfair" to some people. In the same sense that the cost of education for people looking to go to college is much higher these days than it was 20, 30, 50 years ago. That is also unfair. So by lowering the cost of education (in whatever form) fairness is being restored more than anything.

Yes, I realize "free" education means society as a whole pays for it in taxes. The thing I don't understand is why we seem to collectively agree that it's a good use of our tax money to provide education up to the age of 18, but after that, spending a solitary cent is beyond the pale. Especially these days when a bachelor's and even in some cases a master's degree is required for many jobs that Boomers were able to get with a high school diploma.

Investing in secondary education is just as benificial to society as investing in K-12.

blank

dhazer
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#14

What paranoia? Read what I asked. I feel I'm being quite reasonable. I'm not dismissing the forgiveness, I'm asking to understand. Yet, no one is answering the questions posed. Instead we seem to get some rambling rhetoric garbage about politics this, politics that. Normally I am able to find the Bill on this stuff and read through the fine print. I can't find squat on this, hence, why I am asking the questions I did in the original post. Can we at least do that without being politic rambling idiots? Please? (not directed at one specific, just in general)

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

The reason you can't find the bill is that Biden did an illegal executive order on this. With this type of spending, it is supposed to go thru congress and it didn't. Now Biden is using that we are in a pandemic so he can use the executive power. But we aren't in a pandemic when it comes to locking down the border, the White House claimed the pandemic is over. So I'll try answering your questions again.

What does it mean to forgive student loan debt? Nothing free is truly 'free', so if the debt it zeroed out, who is paying for it? And how is it paid for? The taxpayers are going to be paying for it if it gets past the courts

What happens to the colleges that provided a service to those students? They had to pay their staff and other operational costs, are those forgiven, or is that not a worry since they overcharge anyway? The loans being paid back are the government loans such as Pell Grant and such, if you went to a trade school to bad nothing for you.

What kind of message does this send to those who also agreed to take out a loan and repay it and did? It sends the same message as the rest of the free stuff, don't worry Father government will take care of you.

What message does this send people overall? If you don't want to pay, or cannot pay, no worries, eventually the government will come in and "forgive" your accountability. The message is simple to the young brainwashed adults and kids it says, don't worry the government will take care of you and the working class is pissed off because now are taxes will go higher.

What message does this send to colleges? They can overcharge and then the government will just "forgive" the debt? The easy message sent is go ahead raise your fees we will pay you, but you have to teach what we want to be taught.

There I answered your questions 😉

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhazer
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#15

Oh man, the paranoia is thick as hell in this thread.

Simple facts, there are a number of social democracy countries (see: the Nordic Model) that have a higher quality of life, lower poverty rates, better health care, better education, etc than the United States of America. Much stricter gun laws too, and yet they haven't descended into the boogie man North Korea-esq fever dream that the loonies think is waiting just outside their doorstep.

Seriously, all of this nonsense about Biden spending too much money after Trump spent the third most of any president in history (in relation to the size of the economy) and much of it on tax cuts for his rich friends. At least be consistent if you're gonna complain about wasteful government spending.

The irony of boomers/gen-xers complaining about entitlements is so rich you could use it to butter bread. Boomers who could afford to go to college, buy a car, and own a home on a single income somehow think that kids these days have it too easy. Give me a break.

Anyway, socialism is bad kids. Just like that complete monster FDR and all of his socialist programs that dug us out of the Great Depression and helped us to beat the Nazis. Everyone knows he was worse than Hitler, because socialism, or something. Don't worry, if you smoke enough meth and buy enough guns it starts to make sense.

Originally Posted by: earthquake

Ok so here we have a person that believes in government control and that is fine because that is what America allows you to do, unlike a socialist country. Now let's get this straight you lost credit because you said Socialist democracies work, but can you name one socialist country that survived? Remember Russia? Union of Soviet Socialist Republics they even had to change. Germany had to change, hell Venezuela was a top 10 richest country 15 years ago and now it's a 3rd world country. So please explain how great they are. BTW just a bit of info we are not a democracy remember that we are a republic.

Trump spent money to make America rely on no one in case the shit hits the fan and I for one like that, don't want government money and I count on myself to maintain my way of living. Yes the kids have it easy they are so deprived as they drink $8 coffee and have a 1200 cell phone but yet they are so oppressed. The parents make sure they have whatever they want because a) they don't want them mad at them because they are friends and not parents and b) to keep them occupied so the parents don't have to put up with them as they do other things.

Now you touch on a funny thing and that's guns. Citizens having guns is what keeps this country free, I take it you believe if you take away the guns the gun violence goes away, well wake up sunshine gun violence goes way up as the people can't defend themselves from the criminals that will have the guns. AKA drugs are illegal in most states (yes some states are making it legal and giving them places to shoot up) but we still have a drug problem and it's getting worse with the open border. Why do you think we have never been invaded? We have more guns than people in this country, In a little state for you over 600,000 people go hunting in Wisconsin alone every year, and that would be the world's 8th largest army. The state of texas would have the world's largest army alone with just its hunters. Now do some research and you will find the cities with the strictest gun laws have the most gun crimes and with that comment, i move on to how the Democrats are pushing for a federal police force (just look at the 87,000 armed irs agents that have to be willing to use force) , they want local police to be torn down and crime running wild (rule of socialism create a problem and then come in and fix it) as it is right now. We have a guy running for senate here in PA that wants to release criminals on death row because they did their time and learned their lesson. But don't worry bud when the shit hits the fan I am sure someone with guns will be there to protect you 😉

Have a blessed day

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhazer
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#16

Random thoughts on this interesting topic:
[list]

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful

Vey well said but remember this was an illegal executive order that was done, by law it is supposed to go thru congress aand a bill made but that wasn't done here.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhazer
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#17

So, basically this debt forgiveness proposition is undermining our intelligence under the guise of "help the kids", in a way?

I agree, it is unfair I've been paying my student loans and some others might not have to and I'll be contributing to it, but what is the greater good? There has to be some tangible reason for this to even be offered, right? Let's say this costs me $2,000 a year in 2023 because we forgive some debt. What are we getting for that $2,000? Are we simply allowing a group of kids to go unaccountable for their financial debt or is there a bigger economical benefit that I'm naïve to?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

I miss the action function lol (goes over and puts his arm around Kevin) son this has nothing to do with the money this has everything to do with power and votes. It is a common fact that a party that has a sitting president loses seats in the house and senate, and this term they are forecasting a huge shift back to the Republican side because of things like inflation, the border, and crime. This money was actually a bribe for a vote is all it came out to be. Now people will say that this nonfree money made a lot of people mad and how will that help get their vote and the answer is simple. You target the ones you can sway and not waste effort on the ones you can't. Or in our terms, the people stuck paying it back are already voting against the dems because of the high inflation and open border, so they won't get their votes. But now you target the weak-minded ( as in real life issues and how to live) who is just looking at hey we got a shiny present for just clicking on a party's name. They don't plan for the future they just think of what can we get now.

There is your lesson my son :)

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

earthquake
Member

2 years ago

#18

Originally Posted by: dhazer

Snipping to try to keep this somewhat on topic.

It's important to keep in mind that there are many flavors of socialism, democratic socialist states, social democracies, and on the more extreme ends whatever you want to call the USSR, which wasn't socialist in the proper sense of the word, in the same sense that North Korea isn't a "Democratic Republic".

Anyway, yes, I can name a few social democracies that work. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Canada, the United Kingdom, and so on. These countries have similar or higher quality of life, smaller gaps between the poorest and the wealthiest, better education systems, better health care, less violent crime, etc.

Lastly, there's a big difference between enacting socialist government policies like social security and transforming into a socialist-fascist state. The former involves providing essential services for citizens funded by taxpayers, and the latter, seizing the means of production by force. I know it's a popular right-wing talking point, but universal health care and secondary education systems won't transform the US into China or Russia. But they might make things a little more like Denmark or Norway.

blank

Cheesey
Preferred Member

2 years ago

#19

Decades ago going to college almost guaranteed a good job. But that's not the case anymore.
So many kids are going to college, that very few will get a job because if their expensive degree.
Back in the 1950s my Dad became an apprentice lithographer, and by the early 1960s was a foreman. He got training that he could use immediately.
Now you can go on to get multiple degrees, and in the end not have a job and be in huge debt.
Kevin was smart not to go on with more schooling, as he realized it wouldn't be worth the huge debt versus the low monitary gain .

Pack93z
Select Member

2 years ago

#20

I want to view this as students getting a great opportunity, but I wonder at what and at whos expense, know what I mean?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Since replying to one post in the thread wasn't proper; I will answer the question as I understand it.

The money has already been spent, the loan was paid out to the colleges years past. The government guaranteed the money interest free until the borrower left school (graduated or dropped out). Burden then shifts for repayment with interest.

So wiping out the money isn't spending new dollars; it is wiping it off the books of an accounts payable item back to the government; then put back into the budget to new loans or some other spending agenda.

So at this point; its lost revenue/incoming verses new spending.

Circles back to my opinion, wipe the interest away, lengthen the repayment out, withhold % of refunds, etc. Anything but wipe it off the books. I currently have one son paying his loan back, cutting the interest would do wonders in benefit. We were researching it the other night, one of the articles we read that covers basic nuts and bolts of the bill.

https://usafacts.org/articles/who-would-benefit-if-10000-of-student-loans-were-canceled/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-Education-Childcare&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImeTCv5Hv-QIVo2pvBB188QE7EAAYASAAEgK0sfD_BwE

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

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packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

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Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality

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