Forgive Student Loan Debt ·

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

When I first heard this during election time, I scratched it off as some political ploy to get votes. It seems to have reared it's head again recently and while I think it'd be good for students to have a clean slate, ... I have questions!!

What does it mean to forgive student loan debt? Nothing free is truly 'free', so if the debt it zeroed out, who is paying for it? And how is it paid for?

What happens to the colleges that provided a service to those students? They had to pay their staff and other operational costs, are those forgiven or is that not a worry since they overcharge anyway?

What kind of message does this send to those who also agreed to take out a loan and repay it and did?

What message does this send people overall? If you don't want to pay, or cannot pay, no worries, eventually the government will come in and "forgive" your accountability?

What message does this send to colleges? They can overcharge and then the government will just "forgive" the debt?

I personally have been paying my student loans off and don't want it forgiven. I feel I agreed to the loan, signed my name, received the education and that's my responsibility to repay it. Mind you, my college was sued into bankruptcy for fraudulently overcharging.

I don't know. I want to view this as students getting a great opportunity, but I wonder at what and at whos expense, know what I mean?

dyeah_gb
100% (Exalted)
Member

2 years ago

#2

Socialists already are complaining that this is not enough because the entitlemeant beast is never satiated until everyone is suffering and bankrupt.

All the sane people recognize this as unconstitutional and a slap in the face to hard working responsible Americans.

In other words, more of the same in 2022 America. About a year ago at this time, America underwent arguably the biggest foreign policy and military disaster in US history. A few weeks later, the vaccine mandates coincidentally appeared. This student loan joke pales in comparison IMO

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman

Cheesey
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

2 years ago

#3

Biden has been cashing checks since he got in office. The national debt is out of control, and he just spends like a drunken sailor.
So who will end up paying for it? The American people.
Taxes will go up, rent will go up. And look what the price of food and other things have sky rocketed out of control.
Someone will end up having to pay for it.
And it's just buying political votes. That's all it is. "Free money? Sign me up! I'll vote to keep them in office as long as it benefits ME!' And they KNOW it works. That's why they keep doing it.
Unfortunately, the majority of people don't think like Kevin, and don't want to take responsibility for the loans they took out and agreed to repay.
They don't care who it ends up hurting.
My father in law used to have a saying, and it was " today's world has the attitude of HOORAY FOR ME, AND F#@K YOU!" And he passed away back in 1994. Yet what he said back then still rings true.
We are unfortunately in the minority.

Pack93z
100% (Exalted)
Select Member

2 years ago

#4

Biden has been cashing checks since he got in office. The national debt is out of control, and he just spends like a drunken sailor.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

While I think we are spending at a larger clip than we should, the above isn't quite accurate either.

TFG (Trump) added 6.7 Trillion in debt over his 4 years, an average of 1.625 Trillion / Year. Biden is on a 1.5 Trillion / Year pace. Both ridiculous, they just changed where the money is flowing to and benefiting. Neither party really wants to resolve our debt, they both just want to stay in power.

So who will end up paying for it? The American people.
Taxes will go up, rent will go up. And look what the price of food and other things have sky rocketed out of control.
Someone will end up having to pay for it.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

Completely agree, someone will have to pay. But giving Big Corps big tax breaks and allowing some to skate tax free isn't effective either.

And it's just buying political votes. That's all it is. "Free money? Sign me up! I'll vote to keep them in office as long as it benefits ME!' And they KNOW it works. That's why they keep doing it.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

Sorta like the Lobbyists do daily on the Hill; grease palms to get rich? Let's be honest, both parties are guilty, the political landscape doesn't work for us regardless of who is in power.

Unfortunately, the majority of people don't think like Kevin, and don't want to take responsibility for the loans they took out and agreed to repay.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

Agreed; if they wanted to help college debt; they could have turned the loans into interest free/prime APR loans. Assisting the burden of debt some, yet not giving the $$$ they used away.

That said, this isn't new either. Bailouts for corporations has been done repeatedly. Wall Street. We are a nation of debtors, from top to bottom, and it is reflective in our politics. It is just a sad reality.

The game is to keep middle and low America in check, spending to keep the rich or political sector in power and wealthy. Raising the costs to attend a college, get a degree which is so valued in corporate America, and saddling those going through with mountains of debt is just one facet of that game.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

#5

I've seen the (but what about corporations) deflecting comment so many times it's become something that just annoys me. It has often times been stated in a manner that comes off as folks questioning (or blatantly against) student loan debt forgiveness are somehow perfectly fine with billion dollar bailouts or tax breaks for corporations. Absolute bullshit angle, in my eyes. Corporations have a lot of money and lot of experience in managing their money. If they fail to do so, that's on them. It shouldn't be on the citizens to bail them out. Massive difference between young adults signing their names to debt vs corporations. Not even in the same ballpark. Period. That's that.

How many students are told they'll graduate and earn X amount and it'll be easy to repay the student loan? I know my college tried that with me. Telling me to come back for my Bachelors and I can earn X amount. I told them I was on Associates Degree making just under that. So, I asked, why should I pay another $60k in student loans to only make a few thousand more in a year? Especially considering after one more year I'll be earning what you dangled in front of me?

I'm not special ... I was just an old ass student in my late 20's whereas a lot these kids are just coming out of high school. This is also why I am able to show compassion for student loan debt forgiveness.

My questions posed in the original post remain.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Cheesey
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

2 years ago

#6

While I think we are spending at a larger clip than we should, the above isn't quite accurate either.

TFG (Trump) added 6.7 Trillion in debt over his 4 years, an average of 1.625 Trillion / Year. Biden is on a 1.5 Trillion / Year pace. Both ridiculous, they just changed where the money is flowing to and benefiting. Neither party really wants to resolve our debt, they both just want to stay in power.

Completely agree, someone will have to pay. But giving Big Corps big tax breaks and allowing some to skate tax free isn't effective either.

Sorta like the Lobbyists do daily on the Hill; grease palms to get rich? Let's be honest, both parties are guilty, the political landscape doesn't work for us regardless of who is in power.

Agreed; if they wanted to help college debt; they could have turned the loans into interest free/prime APR loans. Assisting the burden of debt some, yet not giving the $$$ they used away.

That said, this isn't new either. Bailouts for corporations has been done repeatedly. Wall Street. We are a nation of debtors, from top to bottom, and it is reflective in our politics. It is just a sad reality.

The game is to keep middle and low America in check, spending to keep the rich or political sector in power and wealthy. Raising the costs to attend a college, get a degree which is so valued in corporate America, and saddling those going through with mountains of debt is just one facet of that game.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

Yes, it's true that both parties want to stay in power. The democrats keep crying about the rich getting the tax breaks. I heard it constantly from the Clintons and the Obama's and Biden. Yet all of them ARE the rich. Fact is, the rich pay a huge amount of taxes compared to the lower classes.
And tax breaks to corporations? Who makes the jobs for Americans to be able to survive? The EVIL corporations.
And when they tax the hell out of corporations, they just pass the extra cost onto who? Us!
They just raise the price of what they produce. Or they say the heck with it and move their company to a different country.
How does that help American workers?
And student loan forgiveness. Teaching young people once again that there is no responsibility for their actions.
I bet down the line these people will end up running up huge credit card debt, and expecting to have the government bail them out again.

dhazer
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#7

I've seen the (but what about corporations) deflecting comment so many times it's become something that just annoys me. It has often times been stated in a manner that comes off as folks questioning (or blatantly against) student loan debt forgiveness are somehow perfectly fine with billion dollar bailouts or tax breaks for corporations. Absolute bullshit angle, in my eyes. Corporations have a lot of money and lot of experience in managing their money. If they fail to do so, that's on them. It shouldn't be on the citizens to bail them out. Massive difference between young adults signing their names to debt vs corporations. Not even in the same ballpark. Period. That's that.

How many students are told they'll graduate and earn X amount and it'll be easy to repay the student loan? I know my college tried that with me. Telling me to come back for my Bachelors and I can earn X amount. I told them I was on Associates Degree making just under that. So, I asked, why should I pay another $60k in student loans to only make a few thousand more in a year? Especially considering after one more year I'll be earning what you dangled in front of me?

I'm not special ... I was just an old-ass student in my late 20s whereas a lot these kids are just coming out of high school. This is also why I am able to show compassion for student loan debt forgiveness.

My questions posed in the original post remain.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Seriously dude lol you were an old ass student, I went back to school when I was 35 to get an Associate's degree in Business Administration and also an Associate's in Computer Support. I am now back in college as we speak and I am 53 years old so quit with the old ass student lol. Now the first time I knew what I was signing up for as I knew with the school hours I wouldn't be able to work a full-time job so I took out loans to live off of. I knew exactly what I was signing up for and knew I had to pay it back.

Now, these kids getting 10 to 20 grand given to them for forgiveness is complete BS. They knew what they were signing up for and select a major they knew wouldn't be a real job. Yes, I agree the price of schooling is outrageous, and if the government truly wants to help the students they should set the prices these schools can charge.
And about the comments about the checks, Biden had written is totally different than the ones Biden is writing. Trump wrote checks to help the lower and middle classes. Biden is writing these checks to line the pockets of his buddies and to help boost China. Don't you think it's funny how much money is being sent to Ukraine even with our inflation going crazy? Ukraine has the goods on him just like China so he has to help them. This last bill of lowering inflation is a joke as it will raise it and help develop his army that will be coming for us all, this is what socialism looks like and it is 95% implemented the only thing left for them is to get the guns. They have the propaganda machine with the media, they have the schools to program the kids to follow suit and lastly they now control what you can say. For people that think I'm crazy look up the Alinsky's 8 steps of socialism and yes is the same guy that Clinton and Obama have been quoted as saying they admire him. Here are the steps and think about each one.

1) Healthcare — Control healthcare and you control the people - Obamacare

2) Poverty — Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live. - Inflation is so high you have to choose between gas and food

3) Debt — Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty. - Looks familiar? remember the 87,0000 new armed irs agents being hired?

4) Gun Control — Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state. - they are trying very hard but they can't get it done

5) Welfare — Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income). Student bailout is the latest

6) Education — Take control of what people read and listen to — take control of what children learn in school.
- indoctrinate your kids and tell you that you don't have a say in what they teach your kids. remember how the FBI now tracks parents that make threats at board meetings?

7) Religion — Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools. - No god in the federal courts and now Catholics are the extremists.

8) Class Warfare — Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor. Not using money but using the political parties right now, if you backed Trump your a racist and a threat to democracy. (side note we are not a democracy we are a republic 😉 )

So as you see we are almost there and don't forget the open borders to help bring in the people needed to finish the job.

But here is a better version and updated to this year

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

earthquake
100% (Exalted)
Member

2 years ago

#8

Oh man, the paranoia is thick as hell in this thread.

Simple facts, there are a number of social democracy countries (see: the Nordic Model) that have a higher quality of life, lower poverty rates, better health care, better education, etc than the United States of America. Much stricter gun laws too, and yet they haven't descended into the boogie man North Korea-esq fever dream that the loonies think is waiting just outside their doorstep.

Seriously, all of this nonsense about Biden spending too much money after Trump spent the third most of any president in history (in relation to the size of the economy) and much of it on tax cuts for his rich friends. At least be consistent if you're gonna complain about wasteful government spending.

The irony of boomers/gen-xers complaining about entitlements is so rich you could use it to butter bread. Boomers who could afford to go to college, buy a car, and own a home on a single income somehow think that kids these days have it too easy. Give me a break.

Anyway, socialism is bad kids. Just like that complete monster FDR and all of his socialist programs that dug us out of the Great Depression and helped us to beat the Nazis. Everyone knows he was worse than Hitler, because socialism, or something. Don't worry, if you smoke enough meth and buy enough guns it starts to make sense.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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Cheesey
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

2 years ago

#9

I own guns, and have never smoked meth.
Being purposely blind to what is going on isn't the answer. It's not being paranoid to point out the facts of what the government is trying to do.
The schools control the young people. That's not paranoid, that's fact. They are now pushing to teach sex education to little kids. When they are too young for that kind of stuff. And if the parents don't want that taught to their 5 year olds, tough luck.
Oh, yeah, I hear it now "then they should send their kids to private schools". Most people, especially those that have more then one child, can't afford private schools. Besides the fact that they are already paying for schooling in their taxes .
And the "tax breaks for the rich" is just as was already said in this thread, is to put the classes against each other.
Trump spent, but it was to make things better for the middle and lower class. Plus to try to protect our borders. Which is being torn down by the current administration.
If that's being paranoid, I hope more Americans wake up and become "paranoid".
Why do you think they are going so hard after Trump now? They are scared that the people will wake up and realize they are being duped by those currently in power and will vote Trump back in.
Biden and his kid Hunter are in China's back pocket are are corrupt. Yet they give Biden a free pass. Why???
Look at how many anti Trump posts are on Yahoo. A day doesn't go by that they aren't putting propaganda on the web.
If Trump wasn't going to try to run again, they would have just ignored him and attacked who they thought was going to be the next republican that was going up against Biden
That's not being paranoid, it's giving a damn about the United States.

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

#10

Oh man, the paranoia is thick as hell in this thread.

Simple facts, there are a number of social democracy countries (see: the Nordic Model) that have a higher quality of life, lower poverty rates, better health care, better education, etc than the United States of America. Much stricter gun laws too, and yet they haven't descended into the boogie man North Korea-esq fever dream that the loonies think is waiting just outside their doorstep.

Seriously, all of this nonsense about Biden spending too much money after Trump spent the third most of any president in history (in relation to the size of the economy) and much of it on tax cuts for his rich friends. At least be consistent if you're gonna complain about wasteful government spending.

The irony of boomers/gen-xers complaining about entitlements is so rich you could use it to butter bread. Boomers who could afford to go to college, buy a car, and own a home on a single income somehow think that kids these days have it too easy. Give me a break.

Anyway, socialism is bad kids. Just like that complete monster FDR and all of his socialist programs that dug us out of the Great Depression and helped us to beat the Nazis. Everyone knows he was worse than Hitler, because socialism, or something. Don't worry, if you smoke enough meth and buy enough guns it starts to make sense.

Originally Posted by: earthquake

What paranoia? Read what I asked. I feel I'm being quite reasonable. I'm not dismissing the forgiveness, I'm asking to understand. Yet, no one is answering the questions posed. Instead we seem to get some rambling rhetoric garbage about politics this, politics that. Normally I am able to find the Bill on this stuff and read through the fine print. I can't find squat on this, hence, why I am asking the questions I did in the original post. Can we at least do that without being politic rambling idiots? Please? (not directed at one specific, just in general)

Martha Careful
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Member

2 years ago

#11

Random thoughts on this interesting topic:
[list]

The government should not be in the student loan business, and many other businesses it is in. If universities or institutions think their degrees are so worthwhile, they should be the one giving the loans, not the US government.[*]When the government “forgives” loans, what it means is it’s transferring the responsibility for payment to other taxpayers rather than the people who accrued the benefits of the loan. in my estimation, this is blatantly unfair. why should a plumber, carpenter, mailman, or any other non-college degree person pay for someone else’s college? It makes no sense economically socially or in any sense equitable fairness.

[*]When someone takes that a loan, they are responsible to repay it. My husband and I put three kids for school scrimped and saved, didn’t go on vacations, and made sure they did not have student debt when they graduated. Now I’m supposed to pay because some other lazy ass didn’t feel like sacrificing for their degree or their kids? It’s blatantly unfair. loan forgiveness promotes irresponsibility which is never good in society.[*] Finally, this is another example of politicians throwing more debt and more Into the money supply which creates even a greater amount of inflation, some thing the Fed is trying to battle but has its hand tied with us in inept Congress and administration[/list]

Go Packers!!!!

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member Topic Starter

2 years ago

#12

Random thoughts on this interesting topic:
[list]

The government should not be in the student loan business, and many other businesses it is in. If universities or institutions think their degrees are so worthwhile, they should be the one giving the loans, not the US government.

When the government “forgives” loans, what it means is it’s transferring the responsibility for payment to other taxpayers rather than the people who accrued the benefits of the loan. in my estimation, this is blatantly unfair. why should a plumber, carpenter, mailman, or any other non-college degree person pay for someone else’s college? It makes no sense economically socially or in any sense equitable fairness.

When someone takes that a loan, they are responsible to repay it. My husband and I put three kids for school scrimped and saved, didn’t go on vacations, and made sure they did not have student debt when they graduated. Now I’m supposed to pay because some other lazy ass didn’t feel like sacrificing for their degree or their kids? It’s blatantly unfair. loan forgiveness promotes irresponsibility which is never good in society.

Finally, this is another example of politicians throwing more debt and more Into the money supply which creates even a greater amount of inflation, some thing the Fed is trying to battle but has its hand tied with us in inept Congress and administration[/list]

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful

So, basically this debt forgiveness proposition is undermining our intelligence under the guise of "help the kids", in a way?
I agree, it is unfair I've been paying my student loans and some others might not have to and I'll be contributing to it, but what is the greater good? There has to be some tangible reason for this to even be offered, right? Let's say this costs me $2,000 a year in 2023 because we forgive some debt. What are we getting for that $2,000? Are we simply allowing a group of kids to go unaccountable for their financial debt or is there a bigger economical benefit that I'm naïve to?

earthquake
100% (Exalted)
Member

2 years ago

#13

So, basically this debt forgiveness proposition is undermining our intelligence under the guise of "help the kids", in a way?

I agree, it is unfair I've been paying my student loans and some others might not have to and I'll be contributing to it, but what is the greater good? There has to be some tangible reason for this to even be offered, right? Let's say this costs me $2,000 a year in 2023 because we forgive some debt. What are we getting for that $2,000? Are we simply allowing a group of kids to go unaccountable for their financial debt or is there a bigger economical benefit that I'm naïve to?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Generally speaking, yes, there are benefits to the government investing in education. A better-educated workforce means more highly skilled work stays in the country, which means better products are invented and produced, we're more competitive in the global market, wages for the working class go up, GDP increases, and society as a whole is better off. Education spending is one of the most effective and efficient uses of government money over the long term.

Now, whether student loan forgiveness is the most efficient way to go about investing in secondary education is certainly debatable. Personally, I would rather see programs that provide free or low-cost secondary education going forward, whether that be free community college, state college, or significantly expanding programs that provide financial aid to lower-income individuals so they can afford to get an education. The fact of the matter is the costs of secondary education in this country are extremely high compared to most developed nations, many of which offer completely free secondary education to those who want it.

Free or low-cost secondary education tends to give the working class much more social mobility. When you can, at any time in life, go back and get a degree, train at a technical school and learn a new skill, it empowers people to better themselves (which in turns helps the wheels of the economy turn). Someone below the poverty line who is already working two or three jobs doesn't have the luxury of time or the money required to get educated and improve their circumstances, which is a real catch-22 sort of problem that keeps them stuck at the bottom of the ladder.

Another thing to keep in mind is that progress toward universal secondary education or similar programs will always be "unfair" to some people. In the same sense that the cost of education for people looking to go to college is much higher these days than it was 20, 30, 50 years ago. That is also unfair. So by lowering the cost of education (in whatever form) fairness is being restored more than anything.

Yes, I realize "free" education means society as a whole pays for it in taxes. The thing I don't understand is why we seem to collectively agree that it's a good use of our tax money to provide education up to the age of 18, but after that, spending a solitary cent is beyond the pale. Especially these days when a bachelor's and even in some cases a master's degree is required for many jobs that Boomers were able to get with a high school diploma.

Investing in secondary education is just as benificial to society as investing in K-12.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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dhazer
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#14

What paranoia? Read what I asked. I feel I'm being quite reasonable. I'm not dismissing the forgiveness, I'm asking to understand. Yet, no one is answering the questions posed. Instead we seem to get some rambling rhetoric garbage about politics this, politics that. Normally I am able to find the Bill on this stuff and read through the fine print. I can't find squat on this, hence, why I am asking the questions I did in the original post. Can we at least do that without being politic rambling idiots? Please? (not directed at one specific, just in general)

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

The reason you can't find the bill is that Biden did an illegal executive order on this. With this type of spending, it is supposed to go thru congress and it didn't. Now Biden is using that we are in a pandemic so he can use the executive power. But we aren't in a pandemic when it comes to locking down the border, the White House claimed the pandemic is over. So I'll try answering your questions again.

What does it mean to forgive student loan debt? Nothing free is truly 'free', so if the debt it zeroed out, who is paying for it? And how is it paid for? The taxpayers are going to be paying for it if it gets past the courts

What happens to the colleges that provided a service to those students? They had to pay their staff and other operational costs, are those forgiven, or is that not a worry since they overcharge anyway? The loans being paid back are the government loans such as Pell Grant and such, if you went to a trade school to bad nothing for you.

What kind of message does this send to those who also agreed to take out a loan and repay it and did? It sends the same message as the rest of the free stuff, don't worry Father government will take care of you.

What message does this send people overall? If you don't want to pay, or cannot pay, no worries, eventually the government will come in and "forgive" your accountability. The message is simple to the young brainwashed adults and kids it says, don't worry the government will take care of you and the working class is pissed off because now are taxes will go higher.

What message does this send to colleges? They can overcharge and then the government will just "forgive" the debt? The easy message sent is go ahead raise your fees we will pay you, but you have to teach what we want to be taught.

There I answered your questions 😉

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhazer
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#15

Oh man, the paranoia is thick as hell in this thread.

Simple facts, there are a number of social democracy countries (see: the Nordic Model) that have a higher quality of life, lower poverty rates, better health care, better education, etc than the United States of America. Much stricter gun laws too, and yet they haven't descended into the boogie man North Korea-esq fever dream that the loonies think is waiting just outside their doorstep.

Seriously, all of this nonsense about Biden spending too much money after Trump spent the third most of any president in history (in relation to the size of the economy) and much of it on tax cuts for his rich friends. At least be consistent if you're gonna complain about wasteful government spending.

The irony of boomers/gen-xers complaining about entitlements is so rich you could use it to butter bread. Boomers who could afford to go to college, buy a car, and own a home on a single income somehow think that kids these days have it too easy. Give me a break.

Anyway, socialism is bad kids. Just like that complete monster FDR and all of his socialist programs that dug us out of the Great Depression and helped us to beat the Nazis. Everyone knows he was worse than Hitler, because socialism, or something. Don't worry, if you smoke enough meth and buy enough guns it starts to make sense.

Originally Posted by: earthquake

Ok so here we have a person that believes in government control and that is fine because that is what America allows you to do, unlike a socialist country. Now let's get this straight you lost credit because you said Socialist democracies work, but can you name one socialist country that survived? Remember Russia? Union of Soviet Socialist Republics they even had to change. Germany had to change, hell Venezuela was a top 10 richest country 15 years ago and now it's a 3rd world country. So please explain how great they are. BTW just a bit of info we are not a democracy remember that we are a republic.

Trump spent money to make America rely on no one in case the shit hits the fan and I for one like that, don't want government money and I count on myself to maintain my way of living. Yes the kids have it easy they are so deprived as they drink $8 coffee and have a 1200 cell phone but yet they are so oppressed. The parents make sure they have whatever they want because a) they don't want them mad at them because they are friends and not parents and b) to keep them occupied so the parents don't have to put up with them as they do other things.

Now you touch on a funny thing and that's guns. Citizens having guns is what keeps this country free, I take it you believe if you take away the guns the gun violence goes away, well wake up sunshine gun violence goes way up as the people can't defend themselves from the criminals that will have the guns. AKA drugs are illegal in most states (yes some states are making it legal and giving them places to shoot up) but we still have a drug problem and it's getting worse with the open border. Why do you think we have never been invaded? We have more guns than people in this country, In a little state for you over 600,000 people go hunting in Wisconsin alone every year, and that would be the world's 8th largest army. The state of texas would have the world's largest army alone with just its hunters. Now do some research and you will find the cities with the strictest gun laws have the most gun crimes and with that comment, i move on to how the Democrats are pushing for a federal police force (just look at the 87,000 armed irs agents that have to be willing to use force) , they want local police to be torn down and crime running wild (rule of socialism create a problem and then come in and fix it) as it is right now. We have a guy running for senate here in PA that wants to release criminals on death row because they did their time and learned their lesson. But don't worry bud when the shit hits the fan I am sure someone with guns will be there to protect you 😉

Have a blessed day

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhazer
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#16

Random thoughts on this interesting topic:
[list]

The government should not be in the student loan business, and many other businesses it is in. If universities or institutions think their degrees are so worthwhile, they should be the one giving the loans, not the US government.

When the government “forgives” loans, what it means is it’s transferring the responsibility for payment to other taxpayers rather than the people who accrued the benefits of the loan. in my estimation, this is blatantly unfair. why should a plumber, carpenter, mailman, or any other non-college degree person pay for someone else’s college? It makes no sense economically socially or in any sense equitable fairness.

When someone takes that a loan, they are responsible to repay it. My husband and I put three kids for school scrimped and saved, didn’t go on vacations, and made sure they did not have student debt when they graduated. Now I’m supposed to pay because some other lazy ass didn’t feel like sacrificing for their degree or their kids? It’s blatantly unfair. loan forgiveness promotes irresponsibility which is never good in society.

Finally, this is another example of politicians throwing more debt and more Into the money supply which creates even a greater amount of inflation, some thing the Fed is trying to battle but has its hand tied with us in inept Congress and administration[/list]

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful

Vey well said but remember this was an illegal executive order that was done, by law it is supposed to go thru congress aand a bill made but that wasn't done here.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhazer
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

2 years ago

#17

So, basically this debt forgiveness proposition is undermining our intelligence under the guise of "help the kids", in a way?

I agree, it is unfair I've been paying my student loans and some others might not have to and I'll be contributing to it, but what is the greater good? There has to be some tangible reason for this to even be offered, right? Let's say this costs me $2,000 a year in 2023 because we forgive some debt. What are we getting for that $2,000? Are we simply allowing a group of kids to go unaccountable for their financial debt or is there a bigger economical benefit that I'm naïve to?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

I miss the action function lol (goes over and puts his arm around Kevin) son this has nothing to do with the money this has everything to do with power and votes. It is a common fact that a party that has a sitting president loses seats in the house and senate, and this term they are forecasting a huge shift back to the Republican side because of things like inflation, the border, and crime. This money was actually a bribe for a vote is all it came out to be. Now people will say that this nonfree money made a lot of people mad and how will that help get their vote and the answer is simple. You target the ones you can sway and not waste effort on the ones you can't. Or in our terms, the people stuck paying it back are already voting against the dems because of the high inflation and open border, so they won't get their votes. But now you target the weak-minded ( as in real life issues and how to live) who is just looking at hey we got a shiny present for just clicking on a party's name. They don't plan for the future they just think of what can we get now.

There is your lesson my son :)

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

earthquake
100% (Exalted)
Member

2 years ago

#18

Ok so here we have a person that believes in government control and that is fine because that is what America allows you to do, unlike a socialist country. Now let's get this straight you lost credit because you said Socialist democracies work, but can you name one socialist country that survived? Remember Russia? Union of Soviet Socialist Republics they even had to change. Germany had to change, hell Venezuela was a top 10 richest country 15 years ago and now it's a 3rd world country. So please explain how great they are. BTW just a bit of info we are not a democracy remember that we are a republic.

Originally Posted by: dhazer

Snipping to try to keep this somewhat on topic.

It's important to keep in mind that there are many flavors of socialism, democratic socialist states, social democracies, and on the more extreme ends whatever you want to call the USSR, which wasn't socialist in the proper sense of the word, in the same sense that North Korea isn't a "Democratic Republic".

Anyway, yes, I can name a few social democracies that work. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Canada, the United Kingdom, and so on. These countries have similar or higher quality of life, smaller gaps between the poorest and the wealthiest, better education systems, better health care, less violent crime, etc.

Lastly, there's a big difference between enacting socialist government policies like social security and transforming into a socialist-fascist state. The former involves providing essential services for citizens funded by taxpayers, and the latter, seizing the means of production by force. I know it's a popular right-wing talking point, but universal health care and secondary education systems won't transform the US into China or Russia. But they might make things a little more like Denmark or Norway.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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Cheesey
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

2 years ago

#19

Decades ago going to college almost guaranteed a good job. But that's not the case anymore.
So many kids are going to college, that very few will get a job because if their expensive degree.
Back in the 1950s my Dad became an apprentice lithographer, and by the early 1960s was a foreman. He got training that he could use immediately.
Now you can go on to get multiple degrees, and in the end not have a job and be in huge debt.
Kevin was smart not to go on with more schooling, as he realized it wouldn't be worth the huge debt versus the low monitary gain .

Pack93z
100% (Exalted)
Select Member

2 years ago

#20

I want to view this as students getting a great opportunity, but I wonder at what and at whos expense, know what I mean?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Since replying to one post in the thread wasn't proper; I will answer the question as I understand it.

The money has already been spent, the loan was paid out to the colleges years past. The government guaranteed the money interest free until the borrower left school (graduated or dropped out). Burden then shifts for repayment with interest.

So wiping out the money isn't spending new dollars; it is wiping it off the books of an accounts payable item back to the government; then put back into the budget to new loans or some other spending agenda.

So at this point; its lost revenue/incoming verses new spending.

Circles back to my opinion, wipe the interest away, lengthen the repayment out, withhold % of refunds, etc. Anything but wipe it off the books. I currently have one son paying his loan back, cutting the interest would do wonders in benefit. We were researching it the other night, one of the articles we read that covers basic nuts and bolts of the bill.

https://usafacts.org/articles/who-would-benefit-if-10000-of-student-loans-were-canceled/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-Education-Childcare&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImeTCv5Hv-QIVo2pvBB188QE7EAAYASAAEgK0sfD_BwE

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

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