Mucky Tundra
3 years ago
Packers 2021 Redraft: First-Round Pick Eric Stokes 

The Verdict
Gutekunst knocked this one out of the park. Even if the Packers can’t re-sign surprise standout Rasul Douglas, they’ll go into next season with Jaire Alexander and Stokes as the top tandem. That should be a winning combination for years to come. If Stokes becomes more of a playmaker after finishing second in the NFL with four dropped interceptions, he and Alexander could become one of the best duos in the league.



Green Bay Packers 2021 Redraft: Second Round Pick Josh Myers 

The Verdict
Based on rookie results, Gutekunst botched this one. Humphrey was voted the All-Rookie center. While he was not voted to the Pro Bowl team or selected to The Associated Press’ prestigious All-Pro team, Humphrey was selected first-team All-Pro by Pro Football Focus. He was the only rookie to garner first-team honors.

In 17 games, Humphrey allowed one sack and 10 total pressures. Myers, on the other hand, allowed zero sacks and eight total pressures in six games after missing time with an injured finger and a knee injury that required surgery. Take PFF’s grades for what they’re worth, but Humphrey was the No. 1-ranked center as a run blocker – not just among rookies but overall.

Obviously, it’s far too soon to say whether Gutekunst should have drafted Humphrey. How might Myers’ season have turned out had he been able to string together 17-plus consecutive starts? But, from a one-year perspective, this looks like a missed opportunity. It will be interesting to track their careers and see if Myers becomes the type of player the Packers projected.

“I think I still have a lot to prove and I’m excited to get the opportunity to do that next year,” Myers said at the end of the season. “I’m just looking forward to a healthy season. I just felt like I didn’t have any flow to this season. I was in and out and that was frustrating.”



Green Bay Packers 2021 Redraft: Third Round Pick Amari Rodgers 

The Verdict
Rodgers’ rookie season was a nothingburger. He caught 4-of-8 passes for 45 yards, averaged 8.3 yards per punt return and a feeble 18.1 yards per kickoff return. Obviously, the return of Cobb put the development of Rodgers on the back burner. Who knows how far he would have advanced had he averaged 15 or 20 snaps per game. Maybe a lot; maybe not at all. Fielding punts was an adventure, though he finished the season with a couple strong games in that regard.

Hindsight being 20/20 and having never botched a draft pick, what if Gutekunst had held steady at No. 92 and selected either Ohio State linebacker Baron Browning (No. 105 to Denver) or USC receiver Amon-Ra St. Brown (No. 112 to Detroit)? And then he would have had that fourth-round pick, No. 135. At No. 136, Arizona grabbed Florida cornerback Marco Wilson, who started 13 games. Here’s what’s fun about those examples. If the Packers had drafted Browning, they might not have signed De’Vondre Campbell. If the Packers had drafted Wilson, they might not have signed Douglas. If the Cardinals didn’t draft Wilson, maybe Douglas would have been on their roster instead of practice squad.



Green Bay Packers 2021 Redraft: Fourth-Round Pick Royce Newman 

The Verdict
The question among scouts was whether Newman was a jack of all trades or a master of none.

“I think he sucks,” one scouting director said. On the other hand, said one area scout: “He could be a four-position backup at the very least if not a starter.”

Newman did not suck. It took him a while, though. The more he played, the better his recognition became and the more consistent his performance. According to Pro Football Focus, 63 guards played at least half the offensive snaps. Newman finished 39th in its pass-blocking efficiency with six sacks and 32 total pressures. However, he allowed only one sack during the final eight games. It appears Gutekunst nailed this pick.

“He has great athleticism, he has all the physical tools that we’re looking for,” offensive line coach Adam Stenavich said in December. “It’s just a matter of him understanding his body and putting himself in the best position to be successful. I think this last game vs. the Bears was his most complete game from that aspect of playing with a good base, playing with good hands, moving, coming off the ball, just all the things that we’re looking for in a guard.”

Newman started 16 games but out of the lineup for the playoff game. From Newman’s spot at No. 142 through the final pick at No. 259, only six players started 10-plus games. Only guard Trey Smith, a sixth-round pick by the Chiefs because of major health concerns, started more games than Newman.

Nixon, by the way, went at No. 158 to Carolina. He had a half-sack in his debut but that was his only splash play. He played 82 snaps in seven games before suffering a season-ending knee injury.



Green Bay Packers 2021 Redraft: Fifth-Round Pick TJ Slaton 

The Verdict
Playing off the bench for all 17 games, Slaton contributed a pair of half-sacks among his 23 tackles. With Keke inactive toward the end of the season, Slaton played 103 snaps during the final four games of the regular season. He wasn’t great but he flashed enough here and there – against Seattle in Week 10 and Minnesota in Week 17, specifically – to show he could become a real contributor in 2022. And they’ll need it. Not only is Lancaster headed to free agency but the Packers dumped Keke before the playoff game.

What of Marshall? A sixth-round pick by the Jets, he played in four games and contributed two tackles.

Given the need on the D-line and who was available, this appears to have been the right pick. Houston got a 15-game starter on the defensive line with sixth-round pick Roy Lopez but Slaton’s potential is intriguing.

The starting point is a simple one for defensive line coach Jerry Montgomery.

“First and foremost, he’s got to be a first- and second-down run stuffer. Period and point blank,” Montgomery said late in the season.

Added defensive coordinator Joe Barry: “From a talent standpoint, he’s got everything you want. He’s got size, he’s got athleticism, he’s got speed for a 300-pound-plus man. I’m really excited about him. Is he a finished product? Absolutely not. He still has a million miles to go but, man, he’s traveled a million miles. I think it’s exciting because I think he’s really, really going to be a good player if he stays on the course that he’s been on. I tip my hat to not only Jerry Montgomery but TJ, also, because Jerry’s coached his butt off but TJ’s taken that coaching.”



Packers 2021 Redraft: Fifth-Round Pick Shemar-Jean Charles 

The Verdict
With Sullivan entrenched in the slot, Jean-Charles’ rookie year was the equivalent of a collegiate redshirt season. He played only 37 snaps on defense, though his 231 snaps on special teams ranked sixth on the squad. His future is attached to the Packers’ plan for Sullivan, who will be a free agent.

The 183rd pick by Atlanta, Williams didn’t provide much juice as a returner with 7.7-yard average on punt returns and 21.3-yard average on kickoff returns. He did play well on special teams, overall, and even started one game on defense. With Green Bay’s renewed focus on special teams, you wonder if a player like Williams might be a target in this year’s draft.

The real find among late-round cornerbacks was the 200th pick, Brandin Echols, by the Jets. At 5-foot-10 and with 4.36 speed, he started 14 games and had two interceptions and nine passes defensed.



Green Bay Packers 2021 Redraft: Sixth-Round Pick Cole van Lanen 

The Verdict
On the surface, this might have been the biggest miss in the entire draft. Van Lanen spent most of his rookie season on the practice squad and played one kneeldown snap at the end of the Week 17 game against Minnesota. His lot in life might be as a team’s sixth or seventh lineman, able to play both guard spots and right tackle. If that’s his ceiling, that would be a good value for this spot in the draft.

“Cole’s come a long way,” offensive coordinator Adam Stenavich said in December while he was the offensive line coach. “He’s getting a lot better. Really fitting into our scheme and everything like that. I think he’s more of an interior guy that could go out to right tackle if you need him. He’s doing a great job. He’s trying to just be a valuable backup at every position right now because of our depth. He’s working hard, and he’ll be ready if his number’s called.”



Green Bay Packers 2021 Redraft: Sixth-Round Pick Isaiah McDuffie 

The Verdict
With Green Bay up, there were four players I liked available: McDuffie, slot receiver Dazz Newsome, cornerback Tay Gowan and outside linebacker Jonathon Cooper. Based purely on need, going with McDuffie was a no-brainer. The Packers drafted two cornerbacks (Eric Stokes in the first round and Shemar Jean-Charles in the fifth) and a slot receiver (Amari Rodgers in the third round), meaning there was no reason to go with Gowan or Newsome, and they were loaded at outside linebacker with The Smith Bros. and Rashan Gary, so there wasn’t an immediate need for Cooper.

Meanwhile, a top-heavy group of linebackers had been picked clean. After McDuffie went at No. 220, only one more linebacker was drafted, Mr. Irrelevant Grant Stuard by Tampa Bay at No. 259.



Green Bay Packers 2021 Redraft: Seventh-Round Pick Kylin Hill 

The Verdict
Stuck behind Jones and Dillon, who wound up forming one of the top tandems in the NFL, Hill didn’t get many opportunities. After a strong preseason that included a 22-yard touchdown catch and a 12-yard touchdown run, Hill averaged 2.4 yards on 10 rushes and caught one pass for 5 yards on offense, and averaged 19.9 yards with a long of 41 on kickoff returns. He suffered a torn ACL returning a kickoff at Arizona on Oct. 28.

Jefferson averaged 4.9 yards on 15 carries but was inactive most of the season. There were no surprise standouts among the undrafted rookie runners. So, general manager Brian Gutekunst took the best available running back.

There were two receivers who I liked that went undrafted. One was South Dakota State’s Cade Johnson, an intriguing slot and return threat, but the Packers took care of that with Amari Rodgers in the third round. Illinois’ Josh Imatorbhebhe measured 6-foot-1 and posted an eye-popping 46.5-inch vertical leap. Neither of those players got on the field as rookies.



Time to review the 2021 draft class. I didn't want to spam the main forum with a bunch of threads so all these Sports Illustrated articles are here.

I think Gutey found some good ones in Stokes, Newman and Slaton.

Stokes seems like a real good find. By all metrics, he played really well for a rookie. Even if there's a drop off at #3, Alexander and Stokes at #1 and #2 is still really good if Stokes can build upon his rookie year.

Newman, after a really struggling in the first half of the season, played really well in the back half. I feel like Newman and Runyan could be a top guard combo going forward. I dare say they outsmarted themselves by starting Patrick at RG instead of Newman against the 49ers (along with Turner over Yosh at LT and Kelly over Turner at RT).

Slaton is sort of an easy pick to get behind. A big dude with some burst, he's going straight downfield and not much else yet he has some serious disruption potential. Could be a rich mans Johnny Jolly when the dust settles.

On the other hand, there were some underwhelming performances such as Amari Rodgers. I wasn't expecting much as a rookie but I thought we'd see some solid punt returns and some scripted plays at the end of the season. But even that was aiming high as his rookie season was a trainwreck, even with Cobb as mentor figure on the team. Now I'm wondering if there's a serious hole on offense at slot receiver.

As for Myers, Jean-Charles, van Lanen, Duffie and Hill, it's wait and see. Gutey might have misfired by picking Myers over Creed but it's still early. Jean-Charles brought some ST help and hopefully help at Slot CB in the future. van Lanen could develop as a back up swing guard+RT but the jury is still out. Duffie could develop as a solid ST/rotation guy* Even with his injury, Hill could still be the steal of the draft.

*Definitely a member of the Troy O'Leary All-Stars 
Under Construction!
3 years ago
I question the credibility of anyone who could write that Myers was a botched pick. He was terrific and if not for injury would have had an excellent season. He could be a ten year starter.


Go Packers!!!!
beast
3 years ago


Time to review the 2021 draft class. I didn't want to spam the main forum with a bunch of threads so all these Sports Illustrated articles are here.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 

Thanks for putting it in one post, though one year seems way too early to correctly evaluate who was a good pick or not, I stick with the rule that it takes at LEAST three years. Looks at picks like Rodgers and Nelson, they didn't do much in their first two years.

Of the last couple of years we've needed a DT to step up, and the hope was it'd be Keke, but now that he's gone, we need Slaton to, AND probably draft another DT.

Another thing is the Packers have gone into games with only three Safeties activated, and yet some packages call for three Safeties on the field at once... But who's the backup Safety in case one of them gets injured?

To me, this suggest that at least one of the CBs has been cross trained with the Safeties... and I've been assuming it's the slot guys in Sullivan and Jean-Charles. If that's the case, that could potentially slow down Jean-Charles learning curve as he has to learn both slot but also Safety (a position he hasn't previously played)... but could potentially make him better whenever he does get a chance.



I question the credibility of anyone who could write that Myers was a botched pick. He was terrific and if not for injury would have had an excellent season. He could be a ten year starter.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


I think people are down on Myers, not because of Myers, but because the guy selected one pick behind him, a d plays the same position, Creed, had an absolutely great season... and not just for a rookie great, but he could of gotten all pro votes great.

Though I think people need to note the systems... Creed played for the Chiefs play a spread pass happy system, while the Packers run the wide zone system which is based on runs and short passes.

One of the reasons the Packers said they selected Myers was his ability to do reach blocks, which are one of the hardest blocks in the running game.

Creed was considered the best pass blocking Center in the draft and went to a very pass heavy system and team.


But back to systems, basics, usually pass blocking OL stay closer together to not create any holes, but when run blocking, get a little wider as you need holes to let the RB through.

When I looked into PFF grading around the time of the Packers/Chiefs game, it look as if the Chiefs interior was receiving unimaginable great scores considering two of the three were rookies, but their OTs were receiving poor grades. While the Packers were the opposite, the OTs were receiving good grades but the interior was really struggling (also with two rookies).


I think the huge difference was scheme, Chiefs passing attack protects the interior guys more, while the Packers more running attack protects the OT more. And so they're closer to similar levels than the grades as individuals, it's just their schemes are completely different, and putting different level of pressure and asking them to do different things. Where if Myers was in the Chiefs system, he might of been putting up an amazing grade as well.


My biggest concern is Myers has been hurt now three times in two years. I never liked the injury prone label, but if he gets injured again next year, I'm guessing it's going to be put on him.

UserPostedImage
Mucky Tundra
3 years ago

Thanks for putting it in one post, though one year seems way too early to correctly evaluate who was a good pick or not, I stick with the rule that it takes at LEAST three years. Looks at picks like Rodgers and Nelson, they didn't do much in their first two years.

Of the last couple of years we've needed a DT to step up, and the hope was it'd be Keke, but now that he's gone, we need Slaton to, AND probably draft another DT.

Another thing is the Packers have gone into games with only three Safeties activated, and yet some packages call for three Safeties on the field at once... But who's the backup Safety in case one of them gets injured?

To me, this suggest that at least one of the CBs has been cross trained with the Safeties... and I've been assuming it's the slot guys in Sullivan and Jean-Charles. If that's the case, that could potentially slow down Jean-Charles learning curve as he has to learn both slot but also Safety (a position he hasn't previously played)... but could potentially make him better whenever he does get a chance.

Originally Posted by: beast 



beast, I agree with the idea of not knowing the value of a draft until three seasons have passed. This is more of a "this guys trending upward" and not "this guy definitely sucks, cut him ASAP!" type of thread (and yes, I've already seen people calling for Rodgers to get canned).

Under Construction!
3 years ago

Beast said
I think people are down on Myers, not because of Myers, but because the guy selected one pick behind him, a d plays the same position, Creed, had an absolutely great season... and not just for a rookie great, but he could of gotten all pro votes great.

Though I think people need to note the systems... Creed played for the Chiefs play a spread pass happy system, while the Packers run the wide zone system which is based on runs and short passes.

One of the reasons the Packers said they selected Myers was his ability to do reach blocks, which are one of the hardest blocks in the running game.
...
But back to systems, basics, usually pass blocking OL stay closer together to not create any holes, but when run blocking, get a little wider as you need holes to let the RB through.
...
I think the huge difference was scheme, Chiefs passing attack protects the interior guys more, while the Packers more running attack protects the OT more. And so they're closer to similar levels than the grades as individuals, it's just their schemes are completely different, and putting different level of pressure and asking them to do different things. Where if Myers was in the Chiefs system, he might of been putting up an amazing grade as well.
...
My biggest concern is Myers has been hurt now three times in two years. I never liked the injury prone label, but if he gets injured again next year, I'm guessing it's going to be put on him.

Great points.
I think LaFleur want to be more run oriented ergo the Myers pick. But as I said your points are excellent. If he stays healthy, I think we will be very happy with the pick in 3 years.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
3 years ago

and yes, I've already seen people calling for Rodgers to get canned.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 

I assume you mean. Amari Rodgers, as I've seen a few suggest to canned him too, even one that has suggested canning Rodgers :P

But yes, it can take WRs a couple of years, I think Nelson broke out after 3.5 years, and then lit it up.

My biggest question is how does Amari fit the offensive scheme? Slot WR? Gute talked about how he's built like a RB, which implied doing hand offs and stuff, so a bunch of people assumed he'd be taking the Tyler Ervin sweep role type thing, but Amari doesn't have the preferred speed for that.

I like Amari, but I feel like he's more of a jack of most trades, and doesn't stand out any one area. He's like a WR/RB hybrid, but can he be a matchup nightmare and run over DBs? I'm not saying he can't, just that I haven't seen him do that.

What I saw of Amari in college film is great routes, great at adjusting speeds, plays extremely smart (son of a now NFL WRs coach), but I couldn't help but wonder if he has already maximized his physical potential?

Which is why I was surprised Gute selected him, as he normally loves players that need develop more but have huge potential upside.

And felt like they targeted Amari for return duties or because they let the college QB play be too much of a factor, where Amari had Trevor Lawrence, the #1 overall pick as he's QB.

But this scheme does like catch and run guys, and Amari can be one of those, once he learn the system.


Where a guy like Nico Collins has more physical upside, but had horrible QBs, and since he got drafted by the Texans is in a horrible situation as they're rebuilding and seem direction less with whom they wanted for head coach.





UserPostedImage
nerdmann
3 years ago
Amari Rodgers is gonna be fine. Just get him some reps.
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