bboystyle
3 years ago

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure I read this very quote on this very forum back in 2008 when the Packers were moving on from Favre in favor of Rodgers. Certainly, it wasn't from you but that mindset existed.

The whole "going back to the Packers of the 70s and 80s" is a very aggressive stance. I think it's based more on frustration than analysis. The organization was not ran well back then. It has since changed immensely. To be candid, if the personnel in charge now were connected to the personnel in charge in the 70s and 80s, then I would see this point. However, that's not the case.

There are a handful of people to thank for the Packers success over the last 30 years. Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers are certainly on that list, but not at the top. The top starts with Bob Harlan and Ron Wolf. Mark Murphy, Russ Ball, and Brian Gutekunst cut their teeth under those guys. It was the same with Ted Thompson. It's a better run organization now. If it was "shitty" as you indicated, then we would be picking in the top 5 every year like Detroit, Jacksonville, N.Y. Jets, etc...

The Packers put in a place a business model for sustained success 30 years ago and it has worked. They have been loyal to this model, as a result. It's helped them transition from Favre to Rodgers and its the same model they are going to use to transition from Rodgers to Jordan Love (or whoever the next guy is).

It doesn't prevent bumps in the road or even really bad seasons. Nobody is infallible and eventually the Packers are going to go a couple of years without a winning record. Honestly, they've had 2 seasons with losing records in which Rodgers started 16 more games. They had one with Favre.

Nevertheless, I do think the organization in its current state deserves better than the assumption they are going to turn back the clock in the form of the 70s and 80s.

Originally Posted by: porky88 




I appreciate your opinion here. But i disagree. Packers got lucky with Rodgers. If not for him, we would be the Lions or Jets of the league. We all seen how this team operatea without Rodgers. We can bareky top 5 wins in the time Rodgers was not playing.

U may have read this back in 2008 because no one thought Rodgers would play at a HoF worthy level. But he did. Despite the lack of building a team around him.

There has been no NFL team who had 3 QBs back to back play at a high level. Theres no way Love will and when that time comes, this post will have merit to it
nerdmann
3 years ago
Matt is a way better QB guru than Mike McCarthy, and his system is way tighter.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
earthquake
3 years ago

I appreciate your opinion here. But i disagree. Packers got lucky with Rodgers. If not for him, we would be the Lions or Jets of the league. We all seen how this team operatea without Rodgers. We can bareky top 5 wins in the time Rodgers was not playing.

U may have read this back in 2008 because no one thought Rodgers would play at a HoF worthy level. But he did. Despite the lack of building a team around him.

There has been no NFL team who had 3 QBs back to back play at a high level. Theres no way Love will and when that time comes, this post will have merit to it

Originally Posted by: bboystyle 



At some point, Aaron Rodgers is going to be gone, whether he's traded, signs with another team, retires, etc. Unless you have a time machine, there's no keeping him around forever. So we'll see how well the Packers can develop a QB not named Favre or Rodgers. Personally, I think it will be an exciting an interesting time, whenever it happens. Now, obviously, if the Packers trade Rodgers, and he goes on to play another 6 years and wins a couple of Super Bowls, they will look rather foolish - especially if they fail to develop Love or whoever they draft after him.

That said, I wouldn't look at the seasons where Rodgers has been hurt when trying to predict the Packer's ability to develop their QB of the future. Those are teams that invested very little resources in the QB position other than #12. And for good reason, you don't take QBs high or sign high priced free agents to sit on the bench.

These are some of the recent QB moves the Packers made that resulted in poor QB play:

[list]
  • Traded a player they were going to cut for Deshone Kizer
  • Signed an over the hill Seneca Wallace, who was promptly injured as soon as he got a chance to play
  • Drafted Brett Hundley in the 5th round[/list]
  • These are the bare minimum type moves a team makes when they have a franchise, HOF type QB. Comparing the Packers without Rodgers to the Bears or the Lions is disingenuous. None of these moves are even remotely on par with trading up to pick Mitch Trubisky. Let's be honest here, the Bears are cursed when it comes to QBs. Starting with Ron Wolf, the Packers have developed a number of QBs that would have been better than what the Bears have had in the last 30 years. Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Dy Detmer, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, Craig Nall, and Matt Flynn to name a few. Even back into the 80s, the Packers had good QBs leading otherwise bad teams, like Don Majokwsi and Lynn Dickey. The Packers know what a Quarterback looks like, so it's unlikely they'll become the Bears, Browns, Lions, Jets, etc overnight.

    Drafting Jordan Love was the the most they invested in a QB since Rodgers in 2005. The second most would have been Brian Brohm back in 2008. Generally speaking, the Packers have been drafting late for the last 30 years, so they haven't had many opportunities to pick blue chip prospects. If Love ends up sucking, the Packers will be picking high for a couple years, and will get another swing at a QB to develop. Now, it's true that they could get stuck in a cycle of developing bad QBs for a decade or more, like many of the worst teams seem to find themselves, but there's very little about how the organization is run that suggests that would happen.

    Personally, I think the Love becoming a HOF type QB is about as likely as the Packers struggling to find another good QB for the next 5-10 years. Which is to say, both are rather unlikely, and more likely will be that the Packers end up with a solid, but not out-of-this-world talent QB. That might be Love, it might be someone else. It will be interesting to see it play out.

    One positive here is that Matt LaFleur's offense should be more friendly to a developing QB. This isn't late-stage Mike McCarthy's offense that needed superman at QB and a stable of 5 solid WRs to win. Lost in all of the drama is that in 2019, the Packers season ended in the same result (loss NFCC) as 2020, even though Rodgers had a down year (by his standards at least).

    So there's a lot of revisionist history going on here. From 2013-2019 (excepting his excellent 2014 season), Rodgers was a QB that struggled to stay healthy and was declining statistically. Obviously, with the hindsight of Rodgers' MVP 2020 season, picking Jordan Love seems unnecessary, perhaps even foolish, but nobody expected Rodgers to play that well.
    blank
    isocleas2
    3 years ago

    All u pro management fans are hilarious.


    I expected this from him but alot sooner. Hell, i expected it after the 2014 debacle. Good for him to allow us a few more playoff spots before we go back to being the Packers of the 70s and 80s.


    First Favre now Rodgers. GB has really turned into a shitty franchise.

    Originally Posted by: bboystyle 



    First Favre now Rodgers? You realize if the Packers would have capitulated to Favre there never would have been a Rodgers era right? Just like now if they capitulate to Rodgers there won't be a Love era etc.

    Back when Favre was shown the door there were alot of fans who proved to me more of fans of Favre than they were fans of the green bay Packers. A cult of personality is the term and it often occurs with star players. With the way you constantly crap on Packers fans and the organization itself gives me a pretty good indication where you would stand.
    Cheesey
    3 years ago
    That’s just it.
    Some people are Packer fans, some are fans of whoever is a “winner” at the time.
    I myself am a Packer fan. I was a fan of Favre as long as he was “our” QB. I’m a fan of Rodgers as long as he’s our QB. If he’s on “my” team, I’ll cheer for him.
    If he craps on my team, I won’t cheer for him.

    bboystyle
    3 years ago

    First Favre now Rodgers? You realize if the Packers would have capitulated to Favre there never would have been a Rodgers era right? Just like now if they capitulate to Rodgers there won't be a Love era etc.

    Back when Favre was shown the door there were alot of fans who proved to me more of fans of Favre than they were fans of the green bay Packers. A cult of personality is the term and it often occurs with star players. With the way you constantly crap on Packers fans and the organization itself gives me a pretty good indication where you would stand.

    Originally Posted by: isocleas2 



    I constantly crap on Packers fans and the team? Lol. So calling out how homerism runs rampant in GB and how the team is ran so mediocre is a bad thing? Sorry mr super fan, im not all rah rah about the team. All of that changed after the fiasco mess in 2014. We have had 2 hof QBs the past 30 years and have what to show for it?
    bboystyle
    3 years ago

    That’s just it.
    Some people are Packer fans, some are fans of whoever is a “winner” at the time.
    I myself am a Packer fan. I was a fan of Favre as long as he was “our” QB. I’m a fan of Rodgers as long as he’s our QB. If he’s on “my” team, I’ll cheer for him.
    If he craps on my team, I won’t cheer for him.

    Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



    Who are these people? I see plenty of long time Packer fans criticizing the state of the team. I think u mean there are homers who just cheer for whatever product is on the field (good or bad) and there are those who see through all the BS that goes down and calls it out.


    How is it that we are in 2021 and still have the same issues since 2011? Meidocre to horrid D, no pass rush, getting blown out in the playoffs, no WR not named Adams, no real MLB, thin at the DL, ect.

    All of these have been the reason why the Packers never made it back to the SB. All of these issues refuse to be taken seriously as the GM, and i quote him, thibks the team is set at every postion and we dont really need anyone in the draft....

    Cheesey
    3 years ago

    Who are these people? I see plenty of long time Packer fans criticizing the state of the team. I think u mean there are homers who just cheer for whatever product is on the field (good or bad) and there are those who see through all the BS that goes down and calls it out.


    How is it that we are in 2021 and still have the same issues since 2011? Meidocre to horrid D, no pass rush, getting blown out in the playoffs, no WR not named Adams, no real MLB, thin at the DL, ect.

    All of these have been the reason why the Packers never made it back to the SB. All of these issues refuse to be taken seriously as the GM, and i quote him, thibks the team is set at every postion and we dont really need anyone in the draft....

    Originally Posted by: bboystyle 


    So....you ask who these people are, then state exactly what I was saying but wording it differently.
    Look around the NFL. How many other teams have not even made it to the playoffs, or maybe one time since 2011.
    As many times as the Packers have won their division and made the playoffs, they have done a lot better then most of the teams in the NFL. I wouldn’t call their record “mediocre”. The Vikings, the Bears and especially the Lions I would call mediocre.
    There is only so much money to go around. So you can’t always buy the best talent.
    And some of the playoff losses were fluke losses. The one in overtime when Rodgers was pulled down by his face mask, no penalty called, and he fumbled with the other team scoring. Ty Montgomery’s screw up kick return, the guy that wasn’t supposed to touch the on side kick and fumbled it away and on and on it goes.
    And the other team is paid to try to win too.
    And like a few examples I just gave, sometimes the refs miss calls (remember the replacement refs screwed up call against the Seahawks) and sometimes individuals mess up when they don’t do what they are told to do. And sometimes you just don’t get the bounces of the ball.
    Some were fault of players, sometimes the refs, sometimes just bad luck at the wrong time.’
    And being as the Packers have been consistently good, they always end up picking in the draft at the end of the rounds. Missing out on the best prospects. So that makes it a lot harder for the GM to get top notch talent when the “picks of the litter” are all gone by the time you get your pick.


    bboystyle
    3 years ago

    So....you ask who these people are, then state exactly what I was saying but wording it differently.
    Look around the NFL. How many other teams have not even made it to the playoffs, or maybe one time since 2011.
    As many times as the Packers have won their division and made the playoffs, they have done a lot better then most of the teams in the NFL. I wouldn’t call their record “mediocre”. The Vikings, the Bears and especially the Lions I would call mediocre.
    There is only so much money to go around. So you can’t always buy the best talent.
    And some of the playoff losses were fluke losses. The one in overtime when Rodgers was pulled down by his face mask, no penalty called, and he fumbled with the other team scoring. Ty Montgomery’s screw up kick return, the guy that wasn’t supposed to touch the on side kick and fumbled it away and on and on it goes.
    And the other team is paid to try to win too.
    And like a few examples I just gave, sometimes the refs miss calls (remember the replacement refs screwed up call against the Seahawks) and sometimes individuals mess up when they don’t do what they are told to do. And sometimes you just don’t get the bounces of the ball.
    Some were fault of players, sometimes the refs, sometimes just bad luck at the wrong time.’
    And being as the Packers have been consistently good, they always end up picking in the draft at the end of the rounds. Missing out on the best prospects. So that makes it a lot harder for the GM to get top notch talent when the “picks of the litter” are all gone by the time you get your pick.

    Originally Posted by: Cheesey 




    Most of your reply did not contain to my comments.

    I never said the Packers are a mediocre team. I said the defense, for most of the past decade, have been mediocre to god awful.

    I also never said anything about fluke or close losses in the playoffa. I clearly stated the multiple blowouts we have had in the playoffs after a fluke season.

    U cant bring up salary cap because even with Rodgers at QB, we had several seasons where we were well below the cap but we just sat on hands and did squat hoping our draft picks will pan out (im looking at u Thompson).


    Im sorry but there is no excuss for the horrible drafting and lack of fixing issues in the team. How many years did we go without a consistent RB before Jones came along? How many first round WRs have we taken when prior seasons showed we needed help at that position? (Fun fact, Packers havent drafter a WR in the first round since 2014).

    I mean dont expext our problems to be fixed in one year. But to have the same issues on the team for years and not fix it, that falls on management and the upper folks.

    U should really investigate the nepotism that goes on in GB. It will open up your eyes. GB is not about winning, its about fielding a product that can keep the fans happy while making $$$
    Zero2Cool
    3 years ago
    One of the things I really dislike about our current times is how fast small things turn into something huge. Each news outlet, each "reporter" and each tom dick an harry is commenting their opinion on this subject and misrepresenting facts to fit their attention driven motives.

    I decided to turn on sports radio on my drive to work and the local guys were talking about the plethora of reports that Aaron wants Brian fired, that Aaron doesn't want to come back to Green Bay, that Aaron is demanding a trade, blah blah blah. First of all, there was one report which upon Jay Glazer confirmed (while a bunch of "look at me" people said it was what they were hearing) that there was discontent between Aaron and the Packers. Mark Murphy basically verified that discontent himself which was published on Packers.com. The guys on the radio even did a 180° on the Jordan Love pick. When the pick was made, they understood it and now "rookie" called the Packers idiots for it and they are getting what they deserve. These dipshits in the media act like people have no memory, no recollection of things said just a year ago. It's insulting to our intelligence.

    I do not believe Aaron wants Brian fired. It doesn't make sense.
    I do not believe Aaron is refusing to return to Green Bay. It doesn't make sense.
    I do believe Aaron wants contractual commitment beyond 2021. That makes sense. Packers used a first round pick on a QB and he doesn't want to completely be a placeholder without having some say in it. A committed contract is just that. I do not think anyone would blame or fault him for it.

    What we're in the middle of is a contract negotiation tug-o-war. As I said before, if this was 20 years ago, we'd hear nothing more than Aaron and Packers are in a heated contract discussion.

    My plea to those who are building up angst towards Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers, Mark Murphy, or Brian Gutekunst --- understand you are being played! Your emotions are being molested by people who care nothing about you and care mostly (if not only) about getting and keeping attention regardless of the damage inflicted.
    Fan Shout
    Zero2Cool (24m) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
    dfosterf (4h) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
    dfosterf (4h) : Trade, cut or keep
    dfosterf (5h) : that from Jaire
    dfosterf (5h) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
    Zero2Cool (5h) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
    dfosterf (5h) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
    Zero2Cool (5h) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
    dfosterf (5h) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
    dfosterf (5h) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
    dfosterf (5h) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
    dfosterf (5h) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
    Zero2Cool (6h) : That someone ... likely the agent.
    Zero2Cool (6h) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
    Zero2Cool (6h) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
    Zero2Cool (6h) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
    dfosterf (7h) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
    dfosterf (7h) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
    dfosterf (7h) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
    Zero2Cool (23h) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
    Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
    Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
    Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
    dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
    dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
    Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
    dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
    dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
    Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
    dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
    Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
    Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
    Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
    Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
    dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
    Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
    Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
    Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
    Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
    Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
    wpr (9-Apr) : yay
    Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
    Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
    Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
    Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
    Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
    Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
    Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
    Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.
    Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Will there be a tracker on the ball or something?
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