Cheesey
4 years ago
My friend has a neighbor who died. She had heart trouble, cancer, and diabetes.
She also tested positive for corona virus. Guess what they put down as cause of death? Yup....the virus.
How many deaths have been listed as the virus, that had underlying health issues that actually compounded the problems?

Just because a country doesn’t state the cause of death was the virus doesn’t mean people that died did not have the virus, which added with their other illnesses actually killed them.
Trusting that othe countries are being honest with their covid numbers, is being naive in my opinion.
I also wonder if some of the states posting higher numbers might be an attempt to blame the President to make him lose the election. Politics can play into this.

UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

My friend has a neighbor who died. She had heart trouble, cancer, and diabetes.
She also tested positive for corona virus. Guess what they put down as cause of death? Yup....the virus.
How many deaths have been listed as the virus, that had underlying health issues that actually compounded the problems?

Just because a country doesn’t state the cause of death was the virus doesn’t mean people that died did not have the virus, which added with their other illnesses actually killed them.
Trusting that othe countries are being honest with their covid numbers, is being naive in my opinion.
I also wonder if some of the states posting higher numbers might be an attempt to blame the President to make him lose the election. Politics can play into this.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I am certain politics play into this. I'm avoiding that because it is not something I can remotely cite as a valid source.

Most sources I've found are not stating the cause of death is COVID-19, rather, they are stating their death total is a "COVID-19 related death". Which, as you pointed out, if the individual is already under poor health, COVID-19 could be what expedited the process. I've even seen some people say vast majority of the dead would have died in a year anyway. Personally, that's a callous statement. I'm not saying it's a wrong statement. But, I know if I had another year with my mom, I would have gladly taken that year ... PROVIDED she was in COMFORTABLE health. If she was miserable and struggling to live day to day, I have to say (and this is callous in it's own right), maybe HER losing that extra is some kind of mercy.

The numbers, even with the exaggerated totals, are not worthy of the reaction received. But people see 145,000 people DIED and they all freak out. It's because we can't quantify ~145,000 out of ~328,000,000 with any sense of reality. If you have $100 and you lose $5, you can quantify that because you've probably had $100 before. We can't quantify 328 million and losing 145 thousand ... that's just not reality. But because we are more familiar with 145k than 328 million, ... which one slams us harder?
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
4 years ago
The amount of positive cases and the lingering issues afterwards gives me more fear than the death numbers.

 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.



Speaking of the death numbers, this is eye opening. Holy crap! The percent column is percent of deaths against total COVID-19 related deaths. This has really slammed hard on those 55 and up.

 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.


Wow.
 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.


https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku/data 
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
4 years ago
Zero, I totally understand what you’re saying. My Dad died 46 years ago, my Mom 30 years ago. What I wouldn’t give for even one more day with them. To tell them how much I love them, how much I miss them. We never know when we might lose our loved ones.

The deaths from this disease is terrible. Using common sense should help to stop or at least slow it down.
But how many people are killed every month by evil people that don’t care about human life? Senseless murders? How about the yearly unborn lives that are snuffed out for convenience?
What I’m saying is, the sky isn’t falling. Yes, we have to take it seriously. But use common sense. Hopefully they will come up with a vaccine soon.
No one is to blame for this pandemic. It’s not Trumps fault. China should have made the world aware of this disease long ago. If there is any real blame, it belongs with China’s leaders.
When Trump shut down flights coming in from China, the Democrats said he was being a racist. Then as the disease shot through the country, the Democrats screamed he wasn’t doing enough. To me, that alone shows they are trying to use it to blame the President and get him kicked out.
I feel like the Democrats would rather have more people sick then to come up with a vaccine if they can get more votes, claming
it to be Trumps fault.

Oh....and I’m adding this so there is no misunderstanding of what I mean. I do NOT think all the people who vote democrat are like this. It’s the leadership that is like that. People like Nancy Pelosi.
The general people that are Democrats I don’t believe are like that.
UserPostedImage
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
4 years ago
Sweden: the One Chart That Matters
MIKE WHITNEY • JULY 25, 2020
https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/sweden-the-one-chart-that-matters/ 

While the Covid-19 epidemic continues to drag on in the United States, it’s largely over in Sweden where fatalities have dropped to no more than 2 deaths per day for the last week. Sweden has been harshly criticized in the media for not imposing draconian lockdowns like the United States and the other European countries. Instead, Sweden implemented a policy that was both conventional and sensible. They recommended that people maintain a safe distance between each other and they banned gatherings of 50 people or more. They also asked their elderly citizens to isolate themselves and to avoid interacting with other people as much as possible. Other than that, Swedes were encouraged to work, exercise and get on with their lives as they would normally even though the world was still in the throes of a global pandemic.

The secret of Sweden’s success is that its experts settled on a strategy that was realistic, sustainable and science-based. The intention was never to “fight” the virus which is among the most contagious infections in the last century, but to protect the old and vulnerable while allowing the young, low-risk people to circulate, contract the virus, and develop the antibodies they’d need to fight similar pathogens in the future. It’s clear now that that was the best approach. And while Sweden could still experience sporadic outbreaks that might kill another 2 to 300 people, any recurrence of the infection in the Fall or Winter will not be a dreaded “Second Wave”, but a much weaker flu-like event that will not overwhelm the public health system or kill thousands of people.

As we’ve noted before, the media has been particularly vicious in their criticism of Sweden’s approach which they’ve characterized as overly “relaxed.” Check out this sampling of recent headlines:
• Sweden becomes an example of how not to handle COVID-19, CBS News
• Lack of Lockdown Increased COVID-19 Deaths in Sweden, U of V Newsroom
• Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale, New York Times
• Sweden Stayed Open And More People Died Of Covid-19, But The Real Reason May Be Something Darker, Forbes
• Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don’t do what we did. It’s not working. USA Today
• Sweden’s coronavirus death toll is now approaching zero, but experts are warning others not to hail it as a success, Business Insider
• Lack of COVID-19 Lockdown Increased Deaths in Sweden, Analysis Conclude, Virginia edu
• Sweden COVID-19 Deaths Linked to Failure to Lockdown as Country Prepares for Second Wave, Newsweek
• Sweden Tries Out a New Status: Pariah State, New York Times

As you can see, the media has taken a very hardline with Sweden. But, why? What has Sweden done that has provoked such a hostile response?
Nothing, really, they’ve just shrugged off the repressive stay-at-home orders and pursued their own independent policy. The Swedish approach stands in stark contrast to the lockdowns which are costly, ineffective and socially damaging. Here’s an excerpt from an article at The Evening Standard that underscores these very points:
[list]
  • “Lockdowns made little difference to the number of people who have died from coronavirus, a study has claimed. Researchers from the University of Toronto and University of Texas found that whether a country was locked down or not was “not associated” with the Covid-19 death rate.
  • Experts compared mortality rates and cases in 50 badly-hit countries up until May 1 and calculated that only 33 out of every million people had died from the virus…The study found that imposing lockdown measures succeeded in stopping hospitals becoming overwhelmed, but it did not translate into a significant reduction in deaths.
  • “Government actions such as border closures, full lockdowns, and a high rate of Covid-19 testing were not associated with statistically significant reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortality,” the study, published in the Lancet online journal EClinicalMedicine, said.”
  • (“Coronavirus lockdown ‘made no difference to number of deaths but stopped hospitals being overwhelmed”, Evening Standard)[/list]….

    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    Zero2Cool
    4 years ago
    Sweden's population is under 11 million. I think the State of Illinois has more than that. Kind of hard to compare Sweden to the US when one has 11 million vs 328 million.

    Instead, Sweden implemented a policy that was both conventional and sensible. They recommended that people maintain a safe distance between each other and they banned gatherings of 50 people or more. They also asked their elderly citizens to isolate themselves and to avoid interacting with other people as much as possible. Other than that, Swedes were encouraged to work, exercise and get on with their lives as they would normally even though the world was still in the throes of a global pandemic.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 



    This is the table I've been pounding my hand onto. I can't say it's gonna work even thought it worked for a (relatively speaking) small Country like Sweden, but it feels like the proper course based on the statistics.
    UserPostedImage
    Zero2Cool
    4 years ago
    Holy crap. I grabbed the numbers from CDC today and decided to do percent for each age group. I'm sure there's a smart term for this, but it's kind of a bottoms up sum. Meaning, The percent is that of the total of that row, plus the values below it.

    So, 97.20% of the deaths have come from ages 45 and above. If you look at the "Under 1 year" row, that's under 1 year and everyone older, thus, 100%.


     image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
    UserPostedImage
    Zero2Cool
    4 years ago
    Ugh. Numbers. So confusing, yet supposed to be the same.


     image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
     image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality 

    UserPostedImage
    Cheesey
    4 years ago
    I honestly don’t think they have a clue what the exact amount of deaths were because of the virus.

    It surprises me how many people still don’t wear a mask in stores and gas stations. Now that it’s law in Wisconsin, I see more without masks then before.
    Maybe it will end up being a “Darwin’s award”, where they end up dying because of their stubbornness.
    A “thinning of the herd”.
    Not that I want more deaths, but it’s their choice I guess.
    UserPostedImage
    Fan Shout
    Zero2Cool (2h) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
    beast (2h) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
    Zero2Cool (3h) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
    Mucky Tundra (8h) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
    Zero2Cool (19h) : Bears. Vikings. OT
    Mucky Tundra (19h) : Thems the breaks I guess
    Mucky Tundra (19h) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
    Zero2Cool (20h) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
    TheKanataThrilla (22h) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
    Zero2Cool (23h) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
    packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
    beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
    packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
    packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
    Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
    packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
    Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
    Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
    beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
    beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
    Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
    Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
    beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
    beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
    Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
    beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
    bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
    packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
    beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
    Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
    Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
    Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2024 Packers Schedule
    Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
    Eagles
    Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
    COLTS
    Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
    Titans
    Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
    Rams
    Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
    CARDINALS
    Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
    TEXANS
    Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Jaguars
    Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Bears
    Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
    49ERS
    Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
    DOLPHINS
    Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
    Seahawks
    Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
    SAINTS
    Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
    Vikings
    Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
    BEARS
    Recent Topics
    10m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    11m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

    21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

    23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    19-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.