macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
5 years ago
Interesting article by Pete Dougherty on Josh McDaniels. I especially liked his description of the Jay Cutler incident "As we know, he had Cutler pegged."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2019/01/03/dougherty-packers-josh-mcdaniels-biggest-boom-bust-candidate/2475213002/ 

IF McDaniels is hired as HC, we'll see if the offensive system will be as big an issue as the article made out.

An NFL source who worked with McDaniels in Denver was more skeptical, mainly because he thinks the change from a West Coast offensive system to McDaniels’ scheme would be more difficult for Rodgers than might be imagined. He pointed to Brett Favre’s so-so play in his one season with the New York Jets and the decline of Peyton Manning in Denver after the Broncos changed his system with new coach Gary Kubiak in 2015.

“I don’t see that working out too well myself,” the source said. “… Josh is not going to change what he does. To his credit he does it very well, but Josh only knows one system. Aaron Rodgers knows one system. And they don’t know the same system. So which one is going to budge?”

JSOnline wrote:

gbguy20
5 years ago

Interesting article by Pete Dougherty on Josh McDaniels. I especially liked his description of the Jay Cutler incident "As we know, he had Cutler pegged."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2019/01/03/dougherty-packers-josh-mcdaniels-biggest-boom-bust-candidate/2475213002/ 

IF McDaniels is hired as HC, we'll see if the offensive system will be as big an issue as the article made out.


Originally Posted by: macbob 



Fair. But I like bradys quote that said if Rodgers had his offense he'd throw for 7000 yards.
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
Zero2Cool
5 years ago

Felt this deserved its own topic, so I split macbob's post into one.


My takeaway after reading this is that McDaniels wanted to improve Jay Cutler, and Cutler felt he was already perfect. I don't fault him one bit for trading Cutler. McDaniel's drafting was kind of shitty though. Seems insane to me that someone 32 years old at the time was given Head Coach AND essentially General Manager duties.

As for the disciples under Bellichick all failing, curiously I wonder how many have been given a second chance?

GREEN BAY - Josh McDaniels is the biggest name on the list of Green Bay Packers coaching candidates we know of so far, and in some ways he has the most impressive resume.

But in other ways, he sets off the loudest alarms.

The resume is self-explanatory: McDaniels has worked two stints of a combined 10 years as Tom Brady’s offensive coordinator and play caller with New England and finished in the top four in scoring eight of those seasons, including the last seven. No one in the league can come close to that.

But he also had a disastrous two-year run as the wunderkind (33-year-old) coach and de facto general manager of the Denver Broncos in 2009 and ’10. That included getting in trouble with the NFL for failing to report that a subordinate had videotaped part of an opponent’s practice in London, which hastened McDaniels’ late-season firing in Denver.

He also badly damaged his credibility last year by accepting the Indianapolis Colts head-coaching job while the Patriots still were in the playoffs and then backing out when it was time to sign after the Super Bowl.

McDaniels’ reputation as a creative offensive mind and long partnership with Brady surely have to intrigue Packers president/CEO Mark Murphy and general manager Brian Gutekunst, who are scheduled to interview him Friday morning.

But the possibility that McDaniels and Aaron Rodgers would be a combustible mix has to give them pause, as well.

Of the known candidates the Packers have or plan to interview, McDaniels looks like the biggest boom or bust. From their three- to four-hour meeting Friday, Murphy and Gutekunst will have to determine what the 42-year-old McDaniels (who has no other reported interviews scheduled) learned from coaching the Broncos, whether he can ease off his excessively controlling ways when he was last in charge, whether a Rodgers-McDaniels match is a good idea and whether McDaniels will be OK accepting a head-coaching job where he doesn’t have final say over personnel.

One NFL assistant coach I talked with this week debated with himself for a couple minutes, then predicted a Packers-McDaniels pairing would work out.

“Of all those names on the (Packers’) list, that’s a great choice,” he said. “But it’s going to come down to, is he going to interact well with Aaron? I’d think after being with Tom (Brady) — Tom’s not exactly the easiest guy to get along with, very strong willed — I wouldn’t foresee that as being a problem.”

An NFL source who worked with McDaniels in Denver was more skeptical, mainly because he thinks the change from a West Coast offensive system to McDaniels’ scheme would be more difficult for Rodgers than might be imagined. He pointed to Brett Favre’s so-so play in his one season with the New York Jets and the decline of Peyton Manning in Denver after the Broncos changed his system with new coach Gary Kubiak in 2015.

“I don’t see that working out too well myself,” the source said. “… Josh is not going to change what he does. To his credit he does it very well, but Josh only knows one system. Aaron Rodgers knows one system. And they don’t know the same system. So which one is going to budge?”

McDaniels’ coaching past demands a hard look, that’s for sure. The failure in Denver (11-17 record after a 6-0 start) and breaking his word with the Colts warrant scrutiny as to his temperament and emotional intelligence. But there doesn’t seem to be much doubt about his coaching acumen.

“Football-wise, he’s as brilliant as they come,” said the source who worked with McDaniels in Denver. “There’s nobody, nobody I’ve been around, nobody had a better offensive mind or eye for detail than that guy. The way he game plans is phenomenal.”

Both sources also described McDaniels’ personality as take charge, so the job wouldn’t be too big for him. But that can cut both ways, as he found out in Denver, because players and staff won’t be motivated to come through for him if he can’t balance his demands with a human touch and open mind.

“He’s not afraid to tell it like it is,” said the former assistant coach who knows McDaniels a little and some of his colleagues well. “That’s one of the things that, if anything he’s too hands-on from what I gather. Micromanage.”

Said the former Broncos staffer: “Josh, it’s his way or the highway.”

Despite being only 32 when hired and 33 when his first season began in Denver, McDaniels was the de facto GM, and his tenure got off to a bad start in his first meeting with Jay Cutler. The quarterback had just gone 8-8 and played in the Pro Bowl in his third year in the league.

According to the source who worked for the Broncos at the time, McDaniels was blunt with Cutler about his shortcomings. He told the quarterback he wanted him to change his demeanor, body language, presence in the locker room and work ethic in the offseason. He also wanted to tweak his throwing motion and the way he read defenses.

As we know now, McDaniels had Cutler pegged. But if the goal was to make Cutler better, that know-it-all, sledgehammer approach bombed. Cutler’s take was that he’d just made the Pro Bowl and didn’t need fixing. When Cutler balked at extra offseason work and relations continued to deteriorate, he asked for a trade, and McDaniels obliged by sending him to Chicago for quarterback Kyle Orton plus first- and third-round draft picks. Orton ended his three years in Denver with a 12-21 record and 85.7 rating.

As a drafter, McDaniels’ greatest blunder was trading up to draft Tim Tebow at No. 25 overall in 2010.

“For 32 years old he had way too much power,” the former Broncos staffer said. “… There was no one in the building to tell him no.”

McDaniels ran the team on the Bill Belichick model but without Belichick’s ability to be demanding and ruthless while simultaneously showing respect for players and coaches. McDaniels ground down his staff and players and ran into a problem that has cropped up with other Belichick disciples by creating a dreary working environment.

It’s worth noting that of all the Belichick assistants who’ve become head coaches in the NFL, only Bill O’Brien has had anything approaching success, and he’s only 42-38 with a 1-2 playoff record in five seasons with Houston.

The former Broncos’ staffer said he personally liked McDaniels but that working for him “was complete misery.”

As for McDaniels’ backing out on the Colts last year, there’s no sugarcoating that he left several assistant coaches hanging by getting their commitments then backing out of the job himself. That could hurt his ability to build a staff if he accepts a job this year while the Patriots are still playing.

But I doubt that will be an issue in the end. He’ll need to shoot the Packers straight on his reason — I’m guessing he had misgivings about Andrew Luck’s injured shoulder and owner Jim Irsay’s eccentric personality. Regardless, I find it hard to believe McDaniels would accept a job and back out a second time. That really would be career suicide, and prospective assistants know it.

“I’d say no (it won’t impede him hiring a staff),” the assistant coach said. “If he were to do that again he would never be a head-coaching candidate again.”

The fact is, there’s a lot to like about McDaniels as a football coach and offensive mind. He knows good quarterback play and has had a long and fruitful collaboration with Brady, the best quarterback ever.

The red flags need addressing, and if I’m Gutekunst, I’d be especially wary of McDaniels trying to push his way to control of the roster if the Packers’ front-office structure stays the same, with all principals reporting to Murphy, for a couple more years.

But much of it comes down to how long the Packers are committed to Rodgers, and whether they think McDaniels can help get Rodgers playing like an MVP again. McDaniels' sharp offensive mind and strong personality might stimulate the quarterback’s intellect and competitive personality even if there were some rough patches..

McDaniels appears to have done that with Brady, including having at least one very public sideline barking match, in a game against Buffalo in late 2017. While Rodgers and Brady are likely two very different personalities, they share strong wills and highly competitive natures.

But if McDaniels hasn’t learned from Denver, or if the way he operated there is just who he is, there’s also the real chance Rodgers would balk at his approach. It could be a disaster.

It’s a huge question for Gutekunst and Murphy. They’ll get three or four hours with McDaniels on Friday to make their best call.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2019/01/03/dougherty-packers-josh-mcdaniels-biggest-boom-bust-candidate/2475213002/ 

Pete Dougherty wrote:


UserPostedImage
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
5 years ago
IMO, the key attributes in our next OC/HC ought to be:
[list]
  • Success in improving/implementing a better/new offense[/list][list][*]Successful track record of working with HOF caliber QB's[/list][list][*]Head Coaching Experience[/list][list][*]Have enough of an ego and testicular fortitude to deal with all players on the team[/list]
  • Ergo, McDaniels would be the top choice, followed by Carmichael. Hopefully either would keep MP as DC.
    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    beast
    5 years ago

    IMO, the key attributes in our next OC/HC ought to be:
    [list]

  • Success in improving/implementing a better/new offense[/list][list]
  • Successful track record of working with HOF caliber QB's[/list][list]
  • Head Coaching Experience[/list][list]
  • Have enough of an ego and testicular fortitude to deal with all players on the team[/list]
  • Ergo, McDaniels would be the top choice, followed by Carmichael. Hopefully either would keep MP as DC.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 

    I feel like you created the list to fit McDaniels perfectly more than set out on an unbiased list for the Packers... such as why do they have to be hall of fame QBs? A coach maximuming the potential that a player has is better than simple working with a hall of fame guy.
    And I sure don't think a blind huge ego is a good thing...


    As for implementing a better system, I've been thinking one of the things I believe really hurt Mike McCarthy is this new CBA.... Mike McCarthy was very well known for developing QBs via his early off-season QB school and his scheme calls for both the QB and WR to read the defense and and each other.

    With the new CBA, that early off-season was cut in at least half, and coaches had less time getting everyone on the same page for that more complex QB/WR system... and that system takes more time.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that was the main factor, but I definitely think it was A factor, also the fact that they haven't reloaded the WRs and released Nelson while the young guys had to learn a more complex system and according to some reports had a questionable WR coach was a bigger factor.

    I think simply getting some better WRs and OG and staying healthy would do wonders for the offense.

    UserPostedImage
    KRK
    • KRK
    • Veteran Member
    5 years ago
    Beast said

    With the new CBA, that early off-season was cut in at least half, and coaches had less time getting everyone on the same page for that more complex QB/WR system... and that system takes more time.

    I know this is a great point, because I made it a few weeks ago. 😁 It also speaks to the slow development of the wide receivers. Mike McCarthy never adjusted.
    As to another component of your post

    I feel like you created the list to fit McDaniels perfectly more than set out on an unbiased list for the Packers... such as why do they have to be hall of fame QBs?


    Nay Nay. When the opening first occurred, after Pettine, my top choice was Arians, followed by Carmichael and McDaniels (not sure what order I had them)
    They don't have to have experience MVP/HOF , per se...but those guys will have the credibility to make the changes that need to make, especially with 12.

    I think simply getting some better WRs and OG and staying healthy would do wonders for the offense

    True, but it doesn't help when the other team often calls out your plays pre-snap. Our offense needs a significant tune up if not an entire rebuild. Very little motion, mis-direction, traps...too few draws and screens, and just not alot of "scheming" to get people open.
    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    macbob
    • macbob
    • Veteran Member Topic Starter
    5 years ago
    Thanks, Zero!

    I have concerns on the comments in the article about McDaniels' micromanaging, creating a dreary working environment, grinding down his staff, and it being a complete misery to work for him.

    After McDanilels moved up in the draft to take Tim Tebow, I sincerely hope the Packers would not give him final say over personnel.
    Fan Shout
    Martha Careful (3h) : You can wear long-johns mittens and a hat. We want Hill and their other skill guys FROZEN
    Zero2Cool (7h) : I'm not sure I hope for that. I'll be at the game.
    Martha Careful (21h) : I hope it is colder than a well-diggers ass on Thanksgiving night.
    Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
    beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
    Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
    Mucky Tundra (25-Nov) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
    Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
    Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
    Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
    Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
    TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
    Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
    packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
    beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
    packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
    packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
    Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
    packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
    Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
    Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
    beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
    beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
    Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
    Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
    beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
    beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
    Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
    packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
    beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
    Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
    bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
    packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
    Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
    beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2024 Packers Schedule
    Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
    Eagles
    Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
    COLTS
    Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
    Titans
    Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
    Rams
    Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
    CARDINALS
    Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
    TEXANS
    Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Jaguars
    Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Bears
    Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
    49ERS
    Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
    DOLPHINS
    Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
    Seahawks
    Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
    SAINTS
    Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
    Vikings
    Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
    BEARS
    Recent Topics
    1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    6h / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

    25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

    24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

    24-Nov / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

    23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.