TheKanataThrilla
6 years ago
If they are so concerned about police brutality they should go kneel in front of the police station. Join a protest group and march the streets. That's like me showing up to work and kneeling down in a meeting protesting about something that has nothing to do with my job.
DarkaneRules
6 years ago
The thing is about that is we don't get to tell people how or where to protest. Also, to your point, groups have been protesting outside of police stations, as well.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
TheKanataThrilla
6 years ago

The thing is about that is we don't get to tell people how or where to protest. Also, to your point, groups have been protesting outside of police stations, as well.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



On a companies dime you do. Also what does kneeling during the national anthem have to do with police brutality anyway. Have any of the NFL players are protested outside of police stations. I don't give a shit about groups I am talking about the players.

Personally I think Kaep is conning people. I think he became a known commodity in the NFL and was getting dumped by the 49ers. He only started kneeling when he started to suck. And for somebody to protest the flag and not even bother to vote. Bahahahahaha.

Zero2Cool
6 years ago

On a companies dime you do. Also what does kneeling during the national anthem have to do with police brutality anyway. Have any of the NFL players are protested outside of police stations. I don't give a shit about groups I am talking about the players.

Personally I think Kaep is conning people. I think he became a known commodity in the NFL and was getting dumped by the 49ers. He only started kneeling when he started to suck. And for somebody to protest the flag and not even bother to vote. Bahahahahaha.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 



Here’s what Colin Kaepernick told NFL.com’s Steve Wyche:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”


UserPostedImage
DarkaneRules
6 years ago

On a companies dime you do. Also what does kneeling during the national anthem have to do with police brutality anyway. Have any of the NFL players are protested outside of police stations. I don't give a shit about groups I am talking about the players.

Personally I think Kaep is conning people. I think he became a known commodity in the NFL and was getting dumped by the 49ers. He only started kneeling when he started to suck. And for somebody to protest the flag and not even bother to vote. Bahahahahaha.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 



I can tell you are passionate about this subject too. The league is listening to you, so that should be comforting.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Cheesey
6 years ago

Why can't JW's stand for the pledge?

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 


We were taught that it was putting the country ahead of God.
We were not allowed to celebrate our birthdays either. Taking Jesus’ words where he said “remember my death, not my birth” and we were told “if we were not supposed to remember Jesus birth, how could we celebrate our own birth?”
Which is STUPID! Jesus was saying to remember WHY he came here, to die for our sins, not to not remember HIS or our own births.
That’s what JWs do. Twist meanings to fit what they want. And you don’t DARE question them, for fear of being disfelliwshipped (kicked out).

Now, with Kapernick, it’s obvious he wants to make a point. Of course it really doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a “feel good” thing. And as I have stated over and over, almost all the “people of color” killed by police end up that way because of something the person of color did. If they did what the police told them to do, instead of fighting, or running or pulling a weapon, they wouldn’t end up dead.
Most white people do what the cops tell them to do. That’s why not as many whites end up dead.
If you teach your kids to disrespect authority, and to fight the police if you get pulled over, what do you EXPECT the outcome to be???
UserPostedImage
Barfarn
6 years ago

The first amendment has NOTHING to do with this issue.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



This is one of 2 issues...and I profoundly disagree [See 2nd half of post]!

That's like me showing up to work and kneeling down in a meeting protesting about something that has nothing to do with my job.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 



This is the 2nd issue:

A more precise simile has you sitting at your desk around startin’ time. You’re fired because you refused to stand and cluck like a chicken [Because you’re a beef man]; your boss further blackballs you in your profession. If you’d find this problematic and if there’s intellectual consistency, then what is happening to Kaepernick is also problematic to you.

1. To see the subject issues with clarity American values need to be reviewed and nationalistic biases need to be stowed.

What if a team were bought by a N.Korean entity, can the team force a player to pledge allegiance to Kim Jung-Un before each game? Or are Americans required to pay reverence to England’s anthem for a game in London? If one is intellectually honest and consistent, it’s clear these situations are analogous to the subject outrageous demands NFL owners are placing on their players.

By its very definition, one cannot disrespect our Flag; it’s just a symbol, it’s nothing more than a colorful piece of cloth. Countries in which one could be prosecuted for “disrespecting” a national symbol: N.Korea [Remember Wambier?]; 1933-45 Germany, and a plethora of despotic regimes throughout history. America doesn’t prosecute peaceful protestors for even burning a Flag. A protestor losing his career for his protest, not the substance of the protest, is nothing more than a de facto prosecution.

The Flag can’t be disrespected, but the values it represents can be. Disrespect comes when one is ignorant or openly hostile to the American values our Flag represents. Punishing a protestor asserting that the G’s police are oppressing members of his race is 100% hostile to American values [Even if the protester is incorrect], it threatens our national security, and its ignorant [Unless one supports despotism]. Ironically, one waxing patriotic while demanding everyone have a robotic reverence to symbols literally defiles the American values they’re touting; it’s downright creepy; it’s a most wretched duplicity.

This is how a Patriot voices dissent to a protest. A Patriot counters a peaceful protestor of [EG] lawful abortion by first exercising EMPATHY and RESPECT for THE PROTESTOR’s THINKING that a child is being outright killed, even though that thinking is entirely misplaced. A Patriot imagines if the G decided to KILL her children, she’s thankful similar protestors will sound. A Patriot counters the abortion activist’s speech with freedom of choice speech/demonstration and voices disagreement with scholarship, not ignorant denials that abortion doesn’t exist ellipsed in idiotic feckless dogma. A Patriot dissenting to an abortion activist’s thinking will never demand the activist is prosecuted, muzzled or his ability to earn is disabled…NEVER!

Protest is fundamental to our genesis and our ongoing security. Our Nation’s birth mimics just about every regime’s creation: when King George punished and/or ignored protest, our forefathers settled their issues with guns. And we call them heroes, don’t we? After the revolt, the greatest fear of the Constitution’s drafters was the inherent problem with democracies: tyranny of the majority. The ENTIRE thrust of our Constitution is designed to prevent a majority from using their position to terrorize a minority. One critical feature of this design are protections installed for the interplay of protest and speech. If speech and protest is punished and/or dismissed and minorities believe the G is out to exterminate and/or fiscally enslave them, it is certain that one day they will take up arms. And if foreign powers and/or an ISIS type faction intervene in a big way; present day America will be gone. Imagine lore of this Browner America that emerges will hail the protesters as heroes, President Kaepernick and VP Reid will be on the $1 and $5 bills…“USA…USA…USA!”

2. There’s two employment issues at play.

Does an Employer have the right to:

(#1) curb/quash protected free speech of his employees; and

(#2) make one stand for Anthem, recite Pledge Allegiance to Flag, crow like a rooster at dawn or pledge allegiance to NK’s Kim?

Answer to #1 is YES! However, the dynamic changes drastically if the employer is either de facto or in fact the USG or working in concert with the USG. There are surely enough facts to allege in a suit that the new Anthem policy is the work of the USG acting in concert with the NFL. Heck, Trump and Jerry Jones even said so [While their lawyers gasp]! Also, considered for the purposes of abridgement of speech is that otherwise private companies can be considered governmental units based on the amount of Public assistance they receive. The NFL receives enough Public assistance in the form of funds [directly or thru tax breaks], infrastructure and subsidized facilities to allege in suit that the NFL is a governmental unit; then it’s up to the trier of fact to decide. The actions the NFL has taken against Kaepernick is probably “illegal;” and 100% certainly “illegal” if multiple teams colluded to blackball.

Answer to #2 is also YES; as long as that condition is fundamental to the job and/or was expressly made at the time of hiring and is in the employment manual. But, neither of these conditions apply in Kaepernick’s case. Obviously, Anthem standing is NOT intrinsically part of playing football and the NFL’s employment relationship is defined by a CBA, which means, NFL owners are prohibited from unilaterally changing terms of employment. Clearly, the NFL’s new Anthem standing rule is “illegal.”

Sure, the NFL will argue the Anthem standing rule is simply a clarification of the CBA’s conduct policy, which obviously cannot list every required or prohibited behavior. The viability of this position turns on whether the players could have reasonably expected that Anthem standing was a required behavior.
But, this argument will fail for the following reasons:

Kaepernick first sat August 26 2016 [BTW, A GB Game] and then started kneeling after consulting with an army vet. The next week he was joined by Eric Reid [Ya think the NFL is sending a message?]. Obviously, if it was understood by the league that this was a conduct policy violation, the clarification would have been made known or a grievance would have been filed in the fall of ’16.

The NFL actually said in August 2016 that "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the national anthem."

The NBA has had an expressed Anthem standing rule for many years. It is not like this wasn’t thought of before and bargained for by a major professional sports league. A player could assume if the NFL expected Anthem standing to be required that they too would have simply bargained for a rule.

Until 2009, the players were in the lockerroom during the Anthem. It was well known that some players would find their way to the end of the tunnel or otherwise seek out a Flag and stand for the Anthem. Obviously, standing for the Anthem was never required prior to 2009.

In November 2014, 5 Rams players [one was Jared Cook] came out of tunnel in “Hands-up don’t shoot” position in response to Ferguson. The St Louis police union wanted scalps. Goodell refused to discipline the players because it was before the game. This served as notice to the players that protesting before the game is not a conduct policy violation.

Oh BTW, did you know that from 1775 to 1783 Americans were promised property to induce them to join the revolutionary fight against the British? This offer obviously appealed to poorer Americans. After the defeat of the British the parcels were distributed; but states immediately levied massive property taxes on those parcels causing most of the parcels to be reclaimed through eviction. USA…USA…USA!

Know your history…see Howard Zinn!
Zero2Cool
6 years ago

Kaepernick first sat August 26 2016 [BTW, A GB Game] and then started kneeling after consulting with an army vet.

Know your history…see Howard Zinn!

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



KNOW YOUR FACTS!!

I'm only kidding around, but I remembered hearing the Packers game wasn't the first time he sat during the National Anthem.


UserPostedImage
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
6 years ago
Barfan,
I love your passion.
First, I guess I am somewhat confused about whether you agree that this is not a first amendment issue. The first Amendment only deals with the GOVERNMENT suppression of free speech. The GOVERNMENT is not a party to these agreements (thank God) and is NOT a guarantor of free speech at the workplace. This issue has everything to do with the Employer/Employee relationship. It gets into the realm of employment law, which I know almost nothing. My guess is that there is some language in the NFLPA collective bargaining agreement that deals with this stuff. (If there are any employment law guys on the blog…please opine.)
Second, I hardly would equate standing for the National Anthem with clucking like a duck. Standing at the National Anthem is within societal norms…at least it has been.
Third, I think many of us have a problem with the NFL’s hypocrisy on dealing with free speech. I believe there is a justifiable rationale for the public’s discontent with the NFL which stems from the inconsistency displayed in the following “free speech/special cause” statements by players. To wit:
[list]
  • In 2012 the NFL had an issue with Tim Tebow kneeling for each game to pray, they also had an issue with Tebow wearing John 3:16 as part of his eye-black to avoid glare, and made him take it off. (It also did not allow an ad by Tebow mom in a subsequent Super Bowl which was Pro-Life)
  • In 2013 the NFL fined Brandon Marshall for wearing green cleats to raise awareness for people with mental health disorders.
    In 2014 Robert Griffin III (RG3) entered a post-game press conference wearing a shirt that said "Know Jesus Know Peace" but was forced to turn it inside out by an NFL uniform inspector before speaking at the podium.
    In 2015 DeAngelo Williams was fined for wearing "Find the Cure" eye black for breast cancer awareness.
    In 2015 William Gay was fined for wearing purple cleats to raise awareness for domestic violence. (Not that the NFL has a domestic violence problem...)
    In 2016 the NFL prevented the Dallas Cowboys from wearing a decal on their helmet in honor of 5 Dallas Police officers killed in the line of duty.
    In 2016 the NFL threatened to fine players who wanted to wear cleats to commemorate the 15th anniversary of 9/11.[/list]
    History has clearly illustrated the NFL has taken a position AGAINST actions by NFL players which demonstrate RESPECT for God, social causes such as mental health, cancer, domestic violence, for cops killed arbitrarily for being cops, or for the Memory of 9/11. I and many others find this position really frigging irritating.
    Now, all of a sudden, the NFL seems to be greatly concerned about free speech and expression. Now, they will allow demonstrations of DISRESPECT for our National Flag and the National Anthem, if it will help mollify a particular Group and its supporters.
    This is what the NFL has shown itself to be, ergo the discontent.
    Finally, does anybody want to remember that Kaepernick was benched for his crappy play before all this started?
    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    Cheesey
    6 years ago
    It seems kaepernick is using the kneeling deal to try to blame the NFL for him not his not having a job, when it is actually that his play SUCKS.
    Why would any team owner take on a so so QB, which would come along with his baggage?
    He’s not on a team for BOTH reasons.
    Making players stay off the field if they don’t want to stand should be good enough for the players.
    They are on the job, and if they want to protest, then protest on their own time.
    If that’s not good enough, then go get a real job.
    UserPostedImage
    Fan Shout
    Mucky Tundra (59m) : Yeah where did it go?
    packerfanoutwest (7h) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
    packerfanoutwest (7h) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
    Zero2Cool (22h) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
    packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
    packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
    beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
    beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
    packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
    beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
    beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
    packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
    Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
    packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
    TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
    Martha Careful (10-Feb) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
    Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : this game is over
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2024 Packers Schedule
    Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
    Eagles
    Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
    COLTS
    Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
    Titans
    Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
    Rams
    Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
    CARDINALS
    Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
    TEXANS
    Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Jaguars
    Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Bears
    Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
    49ERS
    Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
    DOLPHINS
    Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
    Seahawks
    Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
    SAINTS
    Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
    Vikings
    Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
    Eagles
    Recent Topics
    2h / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

    10-Feb / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

    10-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    10-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    9-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

    9-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / dhazer

    7-Feb / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

    4-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    4-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    4-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

    4-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

    1-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    1-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    29-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    27-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.