Rockmolder
15 years ago
Changing a base defense not as easy as 1, 2, 3-4

Steve Wyche


http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ea8c1d&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true 


Packers coach Mike McCarthy opted to switch from a 4-3 defensive front to a 3-4, the same scheme run by the Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers, who had the top-ranked defense during the regular season. McCarthy hired former Carolina Panthers and Houston Texans head coach Dom Capers as his defensive coordinator to take over the scheme and teach it to players and coaches.

The movement of one player off the line and adding one to the linebacking corps might sound simple -- football is just running, throwing, catching and tackling, right? However, such a shift in philosophy could be as radical as switching from the veer option to the spread offense



Oh, forgot to add, I found this part very interesting.

Editor's note: This is the first in a series of occasional offseason stories following the progress of the Green Bay Packers' installation of a 3-4 defense and the challenges facing teams that switch base formations.



Should be pretty interesting.
go.pack.go.
15 years ago
Here's some more from a different article by Pat Kirwan.


Many offseason projects around the NFL are intriguing, but let's take a look at the Packers' conversion from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4.

Bill Parcells once told me that jumping from a 4-3 to a 3-4 isn't easy, and he was reluctant to do it when he first got to Dallas. In fact, he stuck with the undersized speed 4-3 until he gathered enough personnel to make the switch. It took him close to two seasons to build his 3-4 with the Cowboys.

When Bill Belichick took over the New England Patriots in 2000, he developed a hybrid 3-4 that often was more in line with a 4-3 defense. That was until he drafted the front three defensive linemen -- all in the first round -- and his 3-4 was then set in stone.

When Eric Mangini left the Patriots' staff to join the New York Jets, he jumped right into the 3-4 package after the team had spent years in a 4-3, and a number of payers just didn't fit. Middle linebacker Jonathan Vilma and defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson were former first-round draft picks who struggled in the new defense and eventually were shown the door.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80eabdc5&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true 

It disects the positions for the Packers.
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Pack93z
15 years ago
I have said it more than once.. you have to have the right dlineman in mindset and skill to make this defense work.. without that you can have all the fringe tweener players you want.. you will fail.

One of the basic reasons I don't see the Packers drafting one of the flashy smaller pass rushing tweeners in the first round.. they are useless unless you have the horses with their hand in the mud.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
go.pack.go.
15 years ago
I sure hope we either get Chris Canty and/or Igor Olshansky. They'll fill the bill for the DE spot.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

I sure hope we either get Chris Canty and/or Igor Olshansky. They'll fill the bill for the DE spot.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



I just read that article and second the Olshansky part. I think he's a pretty good DE, something we really need. Like the article says, we have Jenkins and Montgomery at the positions now.

Even though Jenkins is undersized, I think he'll do pretty good. I just hope he's ok with not getting the sacks while maybe doing double the work. Montgomery, I don't really like. I really hope we get Olshansky to replace him and let Montgomery come in in some kind of rotation from time to time.

5. The weak inside linebacker

Teams can get away with a slightly smaller linebacker at this position as long as the opponent doesn't use a two-tight end set and force him to line up over a guard. Nick Barnett will man the weak inside linebacker spot for the Packers and should be fine. The more often the 5-technique player to his side crashes down into the gap in front of Barnett, the more he will be free to run and hit.



Also saw this. That might be somewhat of a problem while being in a division with the Bears, but I guess we'll always have some kind of weakness.
beast
15 years ago

Like the article says, we have Jenkins and Montgomery at the positions now.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



No body has Montgomery, he's an UFA and I've heard that he and Cole turned down offers from the Packers.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

Like the article says, we have Jenkins and Montgomery at the positions now.

"beast" wrote:



No body has Montgomery, he's an UFA and I've heard that he and Cole turned down offers from the Packers.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Well, lets put it like this, we currently have him projected at that position, looking at our current roster.

I didn't know about him turning down the offers. I don't know what he's going to do, but good luck to him. I asume he'll end up a back-up somewhere.

He would've made a good back-up for a starting 3-4, but hey, this only forces Ted to sign someone, lets hope it's someone with experience in the 3-4.
dhazer
15 years ago
Well in the article they mentioned one name that is rumored to be cut by the Dallas Cowgirls and thats Greg Ellis, maybe bring him in for the 3-4. But we all know Teddy won't do much in free agency (hint part of my answer for another thread lol)
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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porky88
15 years ago
It's obviously not easy.

The Packers will need to make moves this off season in order to make the transition more smooth. I could literally see a nose tackle, defensive end, outside linebacker, and strong safety brought into the mix this off season in some way.

I also think people need to remember that the defense just needs to be average and the Packers will probably be better. Last year the defense was bad and the offense was great and they were in nearly every game. If the defense can rank 17th in yardage and 14th in points and the offense continue it's success, Green Bay should be able to win the NFC North unless Minnesota finds a QB.
gopackgo
15 years ago
I wonder if we would have switched had we not landed Capers. I didn't really pay much attention to news after the regular season ended. Was there talk of moving to a 3-4 before the announcement of Capers?

Either way, I'm glad he's the one heading up this project.
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Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (3m) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (2h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (2h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (2h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (2h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (2h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (2h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (2h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (2h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (3h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (4h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (4h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (4h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (4h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (4h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (4h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (5h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (5h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (6h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (6h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (6h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (6h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (7h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (7h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (8h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (8h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (8h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (8h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (8h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (8h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (8h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (9h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (9h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (9h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (9h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (9h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (9h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (9h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (9h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (9h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (9h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (9h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (9h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (9h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (9h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (9h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (9h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (9h) : Packers will get in
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