PackFanWithTwins
9 years ago

This staff doesn't CARE about the run. They are trying to BAIT other teams into getting away from the passing game. "The New NFL."

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Well that would probably explain why in my post I said address the hole in COVERAGE in the middle which is typically ILB. Even if we feel Richardson can come in and play the coverage LB role against TEs, he is the only guy we have for that role. WE had two other slot CB/S type players.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
evad04
9 years ago
I was surprised for the same reason as anyone else -- I knew Damarious Randall as a safety, and Green Bay has two starting safeties (and a CB/S hybrid in Hyde) so, what the eff, Teddy?

But that dissipated quickly the more I got to learn about Damarious Randall the player. My thoughts, or a few things being left out or underemphasized ...


Preoccupation with position: There's a problem right away when, because of Randall's position at ASU, he's really only being compared to other safeties in this draft. He played a quarter of his snaps at slot corner, an area where Green Bay has an immediate need if Casey Hayward slides outside (a likely scenario). Green Bay plays a ton of sub-package defense, with five and six DBs on the field at a given time. Randall could end up playing inside corner on either side of the line, and -- CRAZY! -- gives the Packers another matchup-based chess piece to move because of his centerfield ranging ability. Some say he's not a great tackler, but he still amassed 106 last season and ASU coaches have said he played FS because of that position's importance to running the defense. As AADP alluded to in an earlier post, the Sun Devils played a ton of zero blitz defense where Randall played man-to-man with no help over the top. Corner cover skills, corner speed -- heck, even a corner's body type. Projecting as a slot corner Day 1 in the NFL won't be as much of a "transition" as many think.

New breed of defensive back: NFL offenses throw the ball 62 percent of the time. Where'd that number come from? I heard it on TV, or the internet, or something. Okay, so I can't verify the veracity of that claim, but it sounds about right so let's assume it is. You need guys who can cover -- guys who are versatile. Green Bay's defensive backfield could be one of the best in that department with the addition of Randall. Is he a corner? Is he a safety? He's a 4.46 speed, incredibly quick change-of-direction tweener that should be able to be both. Most importantly, the teams that coveted him -- as mentioned Philly was tied to him -- did so because of his coverage ability. The tendency to see "safety" and think of an in-the-box thumper is outdated. Defenses constantly face three-and-four WR sets, multiple TE sets, and some combination of both. Anymore, you simply need football players who can matchup more than you do fitting rigid definitions of corner and safety.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
Yerko
9 years ago
Before we all run after Ted with our pitchforks and call this kid a dud, can we wait to see how he is utilized and how he turns out? We lost two corners this off-season and I understand all your mock drafts from the "experts" were telling you Packers were going ILB or DT first round but CB was also a huge need.

Is he a reach because he wasn't on Mel Kiper's 1000 mock drafts leading up to yesterday? He was on Mike Mayock's at 20 to the Eagles. Maybe Ted could have traded out and landed a mid 2nd rounder and took him there...maybe.

Where are these reports coming from that he can't tackle? Stats don't lie.

He was played at safety at ASU because his coach needed a safety and Randall was his best athlete on defense. So, they moved him there. He is totally capable of playing the slot and will be a huge upgrade for the Packers on special teams as he has returner abilities. Randall will allow the shift of Casey Hayward outside and he takes over the inside responsibilities.

There are 6 rounds of selections left and as of last night, one ILB was taken off the board that wasn't considered in the "top 5". Not saying that Ted Thompson is going to go with an ILB pick but there is a decent chance that someone like Paul Dawson is still there when the Packers pick.

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all_about_da_packers
9 years ago
So, looking at the stats of Randall, he seems to be in the same ball park as CBs Trae Waynes and Marcus Peters (both of whom went before the 20th pick).

Randall, when covering in the slot, allowed 53% of passes to be completed source . Waynes and Peters also both allowed over 50% completion (source ).

Additionally, stats differentiate between "tackles vs. the run" and "tackles in coverage". As a defensive-back, you care far more about Randall making tackles in coverage, which means he was NOT missing tackles of players who he was covering after they caught the ball.

Fortunately, Randall was really good at making tackles in coverage (based on sheer amount he made). Of all safeties the draft, Randall was second with 52 tackles in coverage. (source )

Overall, it looks like Randall compares similarly to other top CBs in some metrics, and his inability to tackle may be exaggerated. I'd love to see Randall's 'Passer Rating Against' stat, but can't find much more on him (metrics for college football players are pretty scarce).
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
warhawk
9 years ago
What I like about the pick is that Randall can play multiple positions. He can play Safety or slot or outside where it looks like they are going to start him at. This is huge when it comes to the aspect of the game where there is no control and that is injuries. The last thing a team needs is to have to move players around to cover for an injury because then it affects multiple positions.

That's what happened a couple years ago when they moved Burnett over and tried a couple guys at his position. He wasn't very good at the other safety spot and neither were the other guys at his. Opposite of that was how important it was last year for Linsley to come in at center and do the job he did otherwise they would have had to move Lang over and then fill that G spot, again, negatively affecting two positions. That didn't have to happen and by the end of the year the Oline play was very good.

So I kind of look at Randall like Linsley only better because he can be plugged into the back end or slot or outside and hopefully the D won't take a hit. It would be great if none of the DB's or CB's get injured but the reality of it is it's likely to happen sooner or later and having a player with his ability sure is a good backup plan. That's just the insurance policy aspect of what he brings. He may very well turn out to be better than a starter and when they do use 6 backs he will be an upgrade there.

The more I write the more I like the pick.


"The train is leaving the station."
PackFanWithTwins
9 years ago

What I like about the pick is that Randall can play multiple positions. He can play Safety or slot or outside where it looks like they are going to start him at. This is huge when it comes to the aspect of the game where there is no control and that is injuries. The last thing a team needs is to have to move players around to cover for an injury because then it affects multiple positions.

That's what happened a couple years ago when they moved Burnett over and tried a couple guys at his position. He wasn't very good at the other safety spot and neither were the other guys at his. Opposite of that was how important it was last year for Linsley to come in at center and do the job he did otherwise they would have had to move Lang over and then fill that G spot, again, negatively affecting two positions. That didn't have to happen and by the end of the year the Oline play was very good.

So I kind of look at Randall like Linsley only better because he can be plugged into the back end or slot or outside and hopefully the D won't take a hit. It would be great if none of the DB's or CB's get injured but the reality of it is it's likely to happen sooner or later and having a player with his ability sure is a good backup plan. That's just the insurance policy aspect of what he brings. He may very well turn out to be better than a starter and when they do use 6 backs he will be an upgrade there.

The more I write the more I like the pick.

Originally Posted by: warhawk 



A while back McCarthy talked about how Bush was negatively impacted by trying to make him a multipurpose DB. And that he didn't want to do that with future players.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Bob McGinn had him going at #20 to the Eagles . Mike Mayock of NFL.com had him at #20 to the Eagles as well .

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



Yup...as a SAFETY. That's the disconnect. He's a fine prospect at...SAFETY. He's a reach at CB in a draft Silverstein called "deep" for the position.

I refuse to believe he's the BPA if you're moving him PROJECTING him to another position. If we were taking a S then fine... nice pick. Now, he becomes a PROJECTION. Not what you want with your 1st pick. Projections are nice for later in the draft not R1 when you continually fail to provide difference makers on D.

Of course, the pro Ted Thompson crowd who was mad last night is going to comeback today and recite the IN TED WE TRUST mantra but how many times are you going to do that when he's used 9 of 11 1st round picks on D and our D sucks? No stellar drafter fails at that kind of a clip. That's brutal.

Would've preferred we'd taken BPA at 30 and then drafted a pure CB later but I guess that didn't happen because of the PROJECT corner being the BPA. Right. 😠
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Bigbyfan
9 years ago
Uffda, you did say you wanted Ted Thompson to take more risks lol. This seems like a pretty big risk to me.
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DoddPower
9 years ago

Yup...as a SAFETY. That's the disconnect. He's a fine prospect at...SAFETY. He's a reach at CB in a draft Silverstein called "deep" for the position.

I refuse to believe he's the BPA if you're moving him PROJECTING him to another position. If we were taking a S then fine... nice pick. Now, he becomes a PROJECTION. Not what you want with your 1st pick. Projections are nice for later in the draft not R1 when you continually fail to provide difference makers on D.

Of course, the pro Ted Thompson crowd who was mad last night is going to comeback today and recite the IN TED WE TRUST mantra but how many times are you going to do that when he's used 9 of 11 1st round picks on D and our D sucks? No stellar drafter fails at that kind of a clip. That's brutal.

Would've preferred we'd taken BPA at 30 and then drafted a pure CB later but I guess that didn't happen because of the PROJECT corner being the BPA. Right. 😠

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I don't think some type of project player at pick 30 rare. Some might be more ready to contribute than others, but a team usually isn't getting a plug-and-play starter that late in the draft. They usually start out as rotational players and hopefully they break the starting line up eventually.

Who knows, maybe Burnett won't be sticking around long. D. Randall could end up starting at safety in 2-3 years. The draft is rarely about the present. It's mostly about the future, for better or worse. Rhetorically, we won't know for a few seasons.
Bigbyfan
9 years ago
Like I said before, it's easy for fans to watch some videos, read some draft reviews, look at mock drafts, and pretend we know more than the professionals. Doesn't mean I'm a fan of the pick, but I'm not going to act like the sky is falling before we have even seen the player suit up.
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Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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