Palm Sunday Poll - Being a Christian - Definition· Page 3

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

To me, the exact day isn't important. The fact that Jesus DID die for my sins and was raised from the dead is what is important.

There seems to be so much said about dates, like the fact that Jesus wasn't born December 25th and so on, that some how the importance of what happened sometimes gets lost in it all.
If I didn't know my own birthdate, would it mean I was never born?
Same thing goes with the date you become "born again". Many churches make it a HUGE deal that you are to remember the exact date you did so. It sometimes becomes such a big deal, that a church will try to make you question whether you actually did accept Jesus if you don't recall the date.
I do remember my spirtual birthdate, but I don't think that's so important. The fact that I DID make the choice is what's the big deal for me.
I think sometimes we get so caught up in religion that we forget God.
As I stated previously, I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. We had so many "do's and don'ts" that looking back, many of it doesn't make sense. Yet millions are taught things, and think they are being taught they are truth. Only to be mislead. We "made fun" of how other religions are lead by some "higher authority", and we were not. Yet if you DARED to question the "Watchtower Bible and tract society" (the leading group of the JW's) you would be disfellowshiped. (Kicked out). That is the biggest fear to a J.W. Threaten that, and most will just ignore any REAL truth they find and follow in lock step.
If there are any Jehovah's Witnesses on this site, or any that have loved ones in it, please feel free to ask me questions and I will try to help you any way I can. I sure don't know every answer, but I will try to help you.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#22

To me, the exact day isn't important. The fact that Jesus DID die for my sins and was raised from the dead is what is important.

There seems to be so much said about dates, like the fact that Jesus wasn't born December 25th and so on, that some how the importance of what happened sometimes gets lost in it all.
If I didn't know my own birthdate, would it mean I was never born?
Same thing goes with the date you become "born again". Many churches make it a HUGE deal that you are to remember the exact date you did so. It sometimes becomes such a big deal, that a church will try to make you question whether you actually did accept Jesus if you don't recall the date.
I do remember my spirtual birthdate, but I don't think that's so important. The fact that I DID make the choice is what's the big deal for me.
I think sometimes we get so caught up in religion that we forget God.
As I stated previously, I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. We had so many "do's and don'ts" that looking back, many of it doesn't make sense. Yet millions are taught things, and think they are being taught they are truth. Only to be mislead. We "made fun" of how other religions are lead by some "higher authority", and we were not. Yet if you DARED to question the "Watchtower Bible and tract society" (the leading group of the JW's) you would be disfellowshiped. (Kicked out). That is the biggest fear to a J.W. Threaten that, and most will just ignore any REAL truth they find and follow in lock step.
If there are any Jehovah's Witnesses on this site, or any that have loved ones in it, please feel free to ask me questions and I will try to help you any way I can. I sure don't know every answer, but I will try to help you.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

That may very well be true about facts and accuracy not mattering, and I applaud you for having the faith to overcome those manmade discrepancies. The Bible simply isn't wrong, but some people/some mainstream churches have a lot of things in the Bible wrong. And that just plays into the hands of the detractors. Ultimately, I guess that doesn't make any difference to those of us who do see things clearly and accept the gift of Salvation Jesus made possible for us.

Cheesey, I have a running debate with a lot of Baptist and Church of Christ types down here in Texas about John 3:3. What Biblical support do have for the concept that being "born again" means a change taking place in somebody's life, rather than baptism, as Lutherans and Catholics believe or being resurrected, as I believe?

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

Wade
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#23

I think sometimes we get so caught up in religion that we forget God.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

^This^

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

#24

I'd say John 3:16 sums it up pretty well. That scripture alone says what it takes to be saved.

And as far as baptism goes:
If baptism is all it takes, then a person could get dunked, and just go on doing whatever they wanted, with no consequences.
What is flesh, is flesh. To be born in the flesh, well, that is what we are when we come into this world. To be born of the spirt takes an action by us, and that is taking Jesus into your heart.
I think one of the biggest problems mankind has is, they can't comprehend a REAL "free gift". God gives us the free gift of salvation if we accept it. And that is all it takes, acceptance. How many of us can give a gift, and expect NOTHING in return? Even if all we expect is a "thank you"?
I sum it up this way: God's FREE GIFT to us is salvation, our "gift" back is what we do with it.
And that also goes with the "store your treasures up in Heaven" scripture. If you do nothing with your salvation other then taking the free gift, when you get to Heaven you won't get the treasures you could have received had you used your gift the way God wanted you to.
I remember back just after I got saved. I had met up with an old and close friend of mine from high school. I was afraid of what he would think of me if I told him about how I had got saved. That he'd think I had lost my mind.
On the day he was going to go back home to California, where he had moved to, I sat down on a curb with him, and told him about Jesus. I was scared to death! I told him "I always said how I loved you as a friend, and if I do, I wouldn't be much of a friend if I didn't tell you how to be saved." I didn't look at him while I was saying all this. When I finally DID get the courage to look at him, tears were flowing down his face and he said "Al, if you wouldn't have told me what you just did, you really wouldn't be my friend." He accepted Christ while sitting on that curb.
What a BLESSING it turned out to be for ME! Had I let my fear control me, I would have lost out on that moment.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#25

I'd say John 3:16 sums it up pretty well. That scripture alone says what it takes to be saved.

And as far as baptism goes:
If baptism is all it takes, then a person could get dunked, and just go on doing whatever they wanted, with no consequences.
What is flesh, is flesh. To be born in the flesh, well, that is what we are when we come into this world. To be born of the spirt takes an action by us, and that is taking Jesus into your heart.
I think one of the biggest problems mankind has is, they can't comprehend a REAL "free gift". God gives us the free gift of salvation if we accept it. And that is all it takes, acceptance. How many of us can give a gift, and expect NOTHING in return? Even if all we expect is a "thank you"?
I sum it up this way: God's FREE GIFT to us is salvation, our "gift" back is what we do with it.
And that also goes with the "store your treasures up in Heaven" scripture. If you do nothing with your salvation other then taking the free gift, when you get to Heaven you won't get the treasures you could have received had you used your gift the way God wanted you to.
I remember back just after I got saved. I had met up with an old and close friend of mine from high school. I was afraid of what he would think of me if I told him about how I had got saved. That he'd think I had lost my mind.
On the day he was going to go back home to California, where he had moved to, I sat down on a curb with him, and told him about Jesus. I was scared to death! I told him "I always said how I loved you as a friend, and if I do, I wouldn't be much of a friend if I didn't tell you how to be saved." I didn't look at him while I was saying all this. When I finally DID get the courage to look at him, tears were flowing down his face and he said "Al, if you wouldn't have told me what you just did, you really wouldn't be my friend." He accepted Christ while sitting on that curb.
What a BLESSING it turned out to be for ME! Had I let my fear control me, I would have lost out on that moment.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

I agree completely with you about John 3:16 and the Means of Grace in general. I also agree, being baptized alone is not enough and probably is not what is meant by being "born again". However, being "born of the spirit" doesn't necessarily mean a life-changing experience in one's earthly life. Maybe it does - a lot of good sincere people believe that, but i'm just saying it doesn't have a Biblical basis. It seems a lot more likely to me that being resurrected when Jesus returns - or at the Day of Judgment a thousand years later, and becoming a "spirit being" like what Jesus showed several of His disciples that His spirit body would look like. A person can't enter into the Kingdom of Heaven - which is on earth - unless the person is resurrected i.e. born of the spirit.

A lot of good Christian people, my parents for example, me, for example, although I don't hold myself up as all that great an example, just always ARE Christian - never had some experience "accepting Christ", because we just always did.

I agree also about the futility of "getting caught up in religion", but I think that is more like concentrating on the manmade tenets of the various Catholic and Protestant denominations. Being clear on what the Bible teaches is not futile.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

PackFanWithTwins
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#26

I believe in God, not religion. The bible, when used correctly is a great teaching tool, but it is also a book written by men over time. It is good to give our children access to multiple denominations and non-denomination interpretations and teachings so when they become of age to be on their own, they have the knowledge to make their own decision on their beliefs. I am no longer a member of any specific church. If I do something wrong and want to ask for God's forgiveness, I can ask for it on my own, I don't need to priest to be a middle man. As long as I am truly sorry for whatever I did, I have faith God will forgive me. to much of what churches care about today has to deal with money. the size and expense of churches that have been built in my lifetime is sickening. I can do more good with my money by giving directly to those I want to help.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

#27

I believe in God, not religion. The bible, when used correctly is a great teaching tool, but it is also a book written by men over time. It is good to give our children access to multiple denominations and non-denomination interpretations and teachings so when they become of age to be on their own, they have the knowledge to make their own decision on their beliefs. I am no longer a member of any specific church. If I do something wrong and want to ask for God's forgiveness, I can ask for it on my own, I don't need to priest to be a middle man. As long as I am truly sorry for whatever I did, I have faith God will forgive me. to much of what churches care about today has to deal with money. the size and expense of churches that have been built in my lifetime is sickening. I can do more good with my money by giving directly to those I want to help.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins

I agree with most of what you said!
The only thing I question is: If you don't trust the Bible as the actual word of God, then how do you decide what to pick and choose to believe? For example, if you believe we "evolved" instead of being created in God's own image, then can you also throw out Jesus actually being God in the flesh? Or the whole concept of salvation through Christ?
God states that anyone who changes any meanings in the Bible will be held accountable, and will be punished for it.
I guess it really comes down to faith.
I also don't follow any certain "religion", as the reasons you stated are so true. MAN created religion, God, the Holy Bible.
We are to go to God for forgiveness, just like you said, no "middle man" necessary. Man can't forgive sin. Only God can.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#28

I believe in God, not religion. The bible, when used correctly is a great teaching tool, but it is also a book written by men over time. It is good to give our children access to multiple denominations and non-denomination interpretations and teachings so when they become of age to be on their own, they have the knowledge to make their own decision on their beliefs. I am no longer a member of any specific church. If I do something wrong and want to ask for God's forgiveness, I can ask for it on my own, I don't need to priest to be a middle man. As long as I am truly sorry for whatever I did, I have faith God will forgive me. to much of what churches care about today has to deal with money. the size and expense of churches that have been built in my lifetime is sickening. I can do more good with my money by giving directly to those I want to help.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins

I tend to agree completely with your take on the various church groups/religions also.

Where I don't agree with you is on the Bible. While humans may have first put the words on paper, have no doubts, the concepts and visions were inspired by God. John, for example, wrote that he saw a vision of future wars with grasshoppers and scorpions - undoubtedly because he had no idea of what helicopters and tanks were. You are on solid Biblical ground in what you say about going straight to God in asking for forgiveness. That is a case of at least one major religion being on Biblically shaky ground.

Virtually all of the doubts and misunderstandings people have and most of the being turned off that some people feel are caused by messed up teachings and practices of organized religions, but that's not God, and it's not the Bible.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

9 years ago

#29

Texas, I looked up a few scriptures last night.
Romans 10:9, That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you SHALL be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.

Acts 2: 21 And it shall be, that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 5:24 Truely, truely I say to you he who hears MY words and believes Him who sent ME, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life,

1 John 5:13 these things I have written to you who believe in the name of the son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Now, every one of these verses state HOW to be saved. If salvation was also dependant on baptizm, wouldn't they say that was necessary too? Yet not one of them says "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord and gets baptized will be saved."
It is this way all through the Bible. Yet throughout the Bible we are told many things we are to do in obedience to the Lord. Yet none of them are necessary to be saved. It is ONLY by grace, not works or ANYTHING we can do to earn it, including being baptized.

And as far as a spiritual "birth", the Bible states ,absent from the body, present with the Lord. So I believe that upon our acceptance of Jesus as Lord, that a "spiritual" birth takes place. We may not realize it, but just like your earthly birth, it happens even though you may not comprehend it.
That's how I see it, at least.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#30

Texas, I looked up a few scriptures last night.
Romans 10:9, That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you SHALL be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.

Acts 2: 21 And it shall be, that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 5:24 Truely, truely I say to you he who hears MY words and believes Him who sent ME, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life,

1 John 5:13 these things I have written to you who believe in the name of the son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Now, every one of these verses state HOW to be saved. If salvation was also dependant on baptizm, wouldn't they say that was necessary too? Yet not one of them says "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord and gets baptized will be saved."
It is this way all through the Bible. Yet throughout the Bible we are told many things we are to do in obedience to the Lord. Yet none of them are necessary to be saved. It is ONLY by grace, not works or ANYTHING we can do to earn it, including being baptized.

And as far as a spiritual "birth", the Bible states ,absent from the body, present with the Lord. So I believe that upon our acceptance of Jesus as Lord, that a "spiritual" birth takes place. We may not realize it, but just like your earthly birth, it happens even though you may not comprehend it.
That's how I see it, at least.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey

No quarrel with any of that, however, it is a matter of WHEN Salvation takes place. I firmly believe it is not in this life. I don't see anything in the Bible to say it is.

"Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord and gets baptized will be saved." WILL BE not is. Just like Jesus said to the thief on the cross, "I say to you today, you shall be with me in Paradise". Did He mean both He and the thief would be in Paradise that same day they were crucified? I don't think so; I think He merely meant He was saying it today.

Not to bring politics into this, but it always really turned me off to hear Jimmy Carter talking about how he was a "born again Christian". A lot of people I actually do respect say the same. But with all due respect if that is your belief, I don't think ANYBODY has been "born again" at this point in time with ONE exception: Jesus Christ. That great gift, however, DOES await all of us in the future who believe in Christ and accept that gift.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

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